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Date Posted: 1/3/2009 11:43 AM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/2/15 4:40 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/3/2009 12:17 PM ET
Member Since: 1/19/2006
Posts: 472
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While, I haven't had the experience, it seems like lots of people have.  You may have just gotten a bad run lately.  I'm sure it is very frustrating.

I think people's first response to being told something they don't like is to get defensive and the somewhat depersonalized nature of the internet makes that worse.

Don't give up on marking bad books RWAP for stains, water damage or being the wrong ISBN.  Most of us don't  want to get those things either and the more people get away with it the bolder they get.  Everyone can make mistakes and we all do.  However, if no one ever complains about bad books or bad ISBNs than people assume the rules really don't matter and more and more of them will appear.

I hope your luck gets better soon on the book front!

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 12:18 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 9/15/10 10:21 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/3/2009 1:02 PM ET
Member Since: 11/22/2008
Posts: 836
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I received my first problem this week....a hard cover book with obvious water damage stain to the book jacket, water damage to the front and back cover on the bottom corner, and some water damage to the pages.  The package was open on a corner, but the packaging had absolutely no water damage at all....which leads me to think the book was damaged prior to being wrapped.  I've been looking at it for three days.....thinking about how to handle it.  It was going to be for my classroom, but since I don't know what liquid caused the damage, I can't possibly allow children to use it.  What exactly happens when I click on "Received with a problem"??

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 1:18 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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"Don't care" is the operative phrase.  Having them read the conditions of a postable book won't help.  I know I'm a pessimist (I prefer realist).  How many people ever read anything they sign?  Not many. Not even the large print - not to mention the fine print - on contracts.  Of course, I guess a multiple question page before being allowed to join might help.  It would scare many away - but probably only the ones that wouldn't care much at all.  The posting a book page already has the part about I'm posting a postable book and cites the conditions.  They evidently don't read that or care.  We just have to stay strong with the RWAP's and weeding them out.  Some of us are over-particular about what we send out for fear of being "dinged" with it.  I know I am.  I'm currently about 2 credits per postable book on my books shelf in cost for those books.  I've rarely gotten my credit back.  Sometimes I feel like it isn't worth the fight - but that makes a book a lot more expensive!  Almost as expensive as buying the books new (pb) with the 4-for-3 deal!  The current state of the economy will drive these people to PBS -  we have to mainain standards of postability no matter what!

Ruth

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 1:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,258
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The only two times someone requested their credit back I requested the books back (I have enough credits to do that, but I wanted to see what I'd missed when I sent the books out).  One was the wrong ISBN (I posted right, but missed that the book was supposed ot be hardback), the other time there was crayon on one line about 3/4 into the book.  So have to say that no one was trying to scam me, but guess sometimes you do have to wonder, as I've requested credits back when the book was falling apart when it got here (and you could tell it was that way when sent), and got the usual comments, "It wasn't like that when I sent it."    LOL.  Pat

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 2:35 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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Don't give up on commenting, just ignore the responses if you aren't trying to get a credit back. If you don't put any reason in the box then it may look as if you just did it by mistake, and it will probably upset people any way. My bad luck seems to come and go. I got four in a row once.
Date Posted: 1/3/2009 2:41 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,599
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No problems here (knock on wood.)...as per usual, most of the books I get are in great shape, with a few that I'd call just 'good' but still definitely meeting the PBS guidelines.The last RWAP I had a few weeks ago was due to the postal service mangling the book, and before that...I can't even remember. Months, at least. I know I've had a half-dozen so-called "bad books" sent to me over the course of the 3+ years I've been here, but they've been few and far between.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 5:23 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 9/15/10 10:21 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/3/2009 6:07 PM ET
Member Since: 1/19/2006
Posts: 472
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Cynthia, nothing really happens if you received on RWAP.  However, it allows the PBS team to keep track of people who might be problem swappers on both sides of the transaction.  Someone who finds a problem with every book and demands their credit back every time is as damaging to the site as someone who always seens out bad books.  There is no set scale of pentalties.  I have no evidence of this, but I suspect that attitude is also a factor.

When the RWAP system was new a few people who got loads of bad books were afraid reporting them would count against them since some people never seem to get bad book.  For instance, I've never gotten a book that was unpostable when it arrived, but I know many of you have.  I suspect that mostly luck and perhaps a little bit reading genre.  That does not seem to have been a problem and the general sense is problem books deserve a RWAP.

Cindy, given that a short version of the standards for posting a book are flashed at you everytime you post one in fairly large type asking if you are sure the book meets the rules, I don't know what more they can do.  The rules are put in front of you when you join, now, no one can make you read them.  I think many people just don't care.  I also think that given things like long privacy policies and and software licsense agreements people are likely to click right by stuff.

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 8:09 PM ET
Member Since: 11/22/2008
Posts: 836
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Thank you Kate.  I'll report it.

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 9:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 13
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i just got my 1st bad book. when i contacted the person they said my allergy conditions were met, and the book could be read, but they could give me back the credit. I was like yes - the book meets my conditions and it is readable, but the basic PBS rule of the book being in good condition wasn't met (it was stained on the cover and along the side of the pages) and i wanted to keep this one for my collection. luckily, the person didn't give me a hassle - but i was annoyed that i had to defend the fact that i didn't want a dirty book

Date Posted: 1/3/2009 10:02 PM ET
Member Since: 3/30/2007
Posts: 4
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I've been the receiver of "bad" books a few times and I've been accused of sending "bad" books a couple of times - note that I've swapped over 150 books.  I find that part of the problem is one of subjectivity.

My whole interest in this club is to get a book, read it, and pass it on.  Therefore, I tend to be more tolerant - totally understanding that the books are used.

Just my opinion.

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 9:13 AM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/2/15 4:39 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Question to the thread
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 2:25 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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What happens after a book is marked RWAP? Does the sender receive a warning? Just curious.

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 2:52 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 9/15/10 10:20 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 6:18 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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The only thing I can think of to help make sure that new members have read and understood the conditions of a postable/unpostable book is to add a step before they can post their very first books.  Sort of like the "tests" that some sites have where you have to re-type a random sequence of letters and numbers which are kind of squiggly.  Instead ot that - a multiple choice mini test (which they actually have to participate in) of which conditions make a book unpostable might be implemented and answered correctly before they can post their first books.  I don't know how hard this would be to implement.  It's a free site so far and it's not like we're asking them to pay a membership fee.  It's just a thought.

Ruth

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 6:41 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 9/15/10 10:19 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/5/2009 5:31 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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I am #150 and 200 on quite a few wishlists. I just noticed they are moving very quickly. I'm sure when I eventually receive those books, they will have changed hands many many times. I think it's fair to let those smudges/creases/semi-worn spines slide by without complaint. After all, my purpose is to simply read those books; not to display them in a rotating case.

The only damage that annoys me is completely broken spines and loose pages...because I can't get future credit for those. It's not hard to tell when a book is unpostable. If I receive an unpostable I will retire it rather than giving it to an unsuspecting pbs member. 

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 6:41 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Mike - you are being a reasonable person.  Not everyone is reasonable.  Not everyone reads the rules. guidelines, and limitations.  Not everyone cares a fig if what they send is postable.  It's those people that need the information to know what is postable and aren't going to get that information on their own.

Ruth

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 7:03 PM ET
Member Since: 1/19/2006
Posts: 472
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I kind of like the little test idea as long as you could re-take it or something.  I'd hate for someone to not be able to join because they read a multiple choice or true false question too fast.  Cindy, you should sent it into the PBS Team as a suggestion.

Mike some of those wishlists that you are zipping along on might be because lots of brand new copies are coming into the system.  You will see that many of the most posted books were also most wish listed at one time.  That said books so reach the end of their life eventually.

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 11:22 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 1,356
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I just got my first damaged book.  I do not think that I am really critical.  If I can read the book and there is not serious damage I am pretty happy.  Unless of course it is for my library and then I only request hardback with dust jackets - no cats and no smoking because of my asthma.  Usually hardbacks hold up better than the paperbacks.  I have had one complaint from a book I sent.  I grabbed the wrong kind of envelope (a paper one) instead of my shipping envelopes (they are made from fiber and you have to cut them with a scissors to get them open).  It was my own fault, I did ask to "see" what she got.  The post office had destroyed the envelop and I could tell by the way it was ripped that I grabbed the wrong thing.  I immediately returned the credit and apologized.

Today I got a set of books and as soon as I opened the wrapper I could smell the mildew.  You could not see water damage, but you just knew they had been stored in a wet area.  The inside of the box had mildew spots in it.  In my opinion, when you have mildew, it has water damage.  I immediately put the books in the garage along with the wrapper.  I am asthmatic and am really worried at this point if I am going to end up having issues later tonight from the mildew.  Like cat and smoke, mold and mildew is a trigger for my asthma.  It is not an immediate thing, probably around two or three I will wake up scratching my throat and trying to get oxygen into my lungs.  Not something I look forward to.

Would you mark this book  damaged and ask for your credit back?  Or am I just being "picky".  I have never marked a book yet, even though a few of them had probably seen the end of their lives by the time I received them.

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 11:28 PM ET
Member Since: 1/19/2006
Posts: 472
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I think mildew is meant to be covered under mold.  The only possible reason that I wouldn't mark this as a problem was if the outside of the package was mildewed too and it looked like the Post Office damaged it.  However, I believe there is an option for that as part of marking it a problem.

There is stuff growing on the book!!  Clearly, that is not in good condition.

Date Posted: 1/6/2009 11:52 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2008
Posts: 9,884
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Last Edited on: 1/5/12 8:23 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/7/2009 4:02 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Most of the books requested from me are in excellent to like-new condition.  A few I received used that I'm passing on are in lessor condition.  So I consider how I would feel if I ordered this book for my keeper shelf...and if it's questionable, I PM the receivee and discribe the book condition.  It's then their choice if the book meets their needs or not.  But if they didn't want the book, I can cancel the transaction and the receivee will still be in line for the next available copy in better condition.  To date, I haven't had any refusals or complaints.

Because it's really frustrating to order a second copy of your favorite book to give to your sister, and it arrived with the cover creased and scuffed, the spine broken, and pages literally fallling out.



Last Edited on: 1/7/09 4:05 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
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