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Topic: ARCs and Igonorance

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Subject: ARCs and Igonorance
Date Posted: 2/27/2010 11:27 AM ET
Member Since: 4/27/2009
Posts: 1
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I got a book in a couple of days ago that was an ARC.  I flag it as a problem and message the sender, who is the sort that makes it sound like -I- am being unreasonable, after all, she's send "many" ARCs out without a problem, and doesn't get why I have the problem.  And then claims an ignorance over the whole "how do I refund credit?  How do I do return postage?"  I had also requested the hardcover but the ARC was a paperback.  I guess she just picked on on the name search since ARCs don't have ISBN #s.  But that's less of a problem than the fact that I have a book that I would not trade back into the PBS system.

Thankfully in the many trades I've done since I've been on PBS, this is only the 2nd book that I've had a serious problem with, but the 2nd that tries to be all passive-aggressive about it - at least this one didn't tell me to "shop at Amazon instead."  But still... I'm annoyed enough at this point that I want to just say forget it but as a member of PBS it annoys me that people post books they're not supposed to and then expresses surprise and ignorance at the rules, all of which show up when you post the book, and ignorance still on how to correct the problem, which is easily found in the FAQ.  Arg!  

Just wanted to rant, sorry.  I just get tired of hand-holding these sorts of people.  I don't think anyone expects a -PERFECT- book, but we all should demand a -tradable- book.  I also dislike this system that expects PBSers to be kind and neighborly when there's problems when people are clearly trying to game the system.  Any advice?  

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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I guess she just picked on on the name search since ARCs don't have ISBN #s

I suggest you stop guessing and assuming the worst  in people and stop assuming they're out to get you.

I also dislike this system that expects PBSers to be kind and neighborly when there's problems when people are clearly trying to game the system.  Any advice?  

LOL! What do you want to do? chew people out and accuse them of being miscreants bent on committing nefarious deeds?  

I suggest you continue to be kind and deal with any future problems in a calm and matter-of-fact manner. No need to be over friendly and there's no need to turn into a ranting loon.

Yes, it's frustrating when members don't know the rules. There are a lot of people here who are not that sophisticated and get confused very easily. There are others who read the rules and memorize them and beat people over the head with them. And there are a zillion other types in between. As a member of PBS you have to learn to deal with all kinds of people. It's a process. Kindness counts and I for one LIKE a system that expects PBSers to be kind when there's a problem.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 11:51 AM ET
Member Since: 12/3/2005
Posts: 3,336
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If you were as pleasant to that person as you were in your post, you really can't expect a nice reply back.  You don't necessarily need to be "kind and neighborly" but being snippy and condescending will pretty much always get you nothing. 

Yes, ARCs are against the rules.  As this person claimed, they had no previous problems so may not be familiar with the situation of returning credit. 

ARCs do have ISBNs on them, usually the one for the hardback so no "guessing" is needed.  I would use the contact us link to make the PBS team aware that this person sends ARCs and if there is a pattern of bad trades, they will handle it.

If you are seriously wanting to call it quits because of simply 2 bad transactions then I would think that this is not the site for you as, well, since you are dealing with individuals, there is a possibilty of human error or "ignorance" that simply comes with the territory.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 11:56 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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 I had also requested the hardcover but the ARC was a paperback.  I guess she just picked on on the name search since ARCs don't have ISBN #s. 

It does suck when people don't pay attention to what they are doing or read the warnings right in front of their face. You are incorrect that ARCs do not have ISBNs though, in fact they usually are paperbacks that bear the hardcovers ISBN and that is probably why she posted it the way she did, just entered the ISBN and the title popped up and she didn't bother to read the warnings that the binding had to match and it couldn't be an ARC. I'd say its probably a case of laziness rather than deviousness. It is good that you are taking the time to educate her on posting ARCs, just try to keep it polite so that she understands that she was in the wrong and she does have to learn and follow the rules of the site, and not that she just ran into someone cranky.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 2:32 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I agree with Melanie - it's probably more laziness than anything else & she's not paying attention to the postability flags - as obvious as they are.  She could also be another person who hasn't read much of the help docs either.  While we all love how easy to use the PBS system is, it's kind of a two sided thing, in that you can do a lot of swapping without reading much on how it's supposed to be done.  Not that it excuses anything, but there it is.  For what it's worth, I understand that you're just frustrated & venting, and I feel for you.  It's hard to be all sweetness & light with people who swap here, don't read the help docs or the postability guidelines, and then act like you're a big nasty party pooper when you make a legitimate complaint about something they should have known better than to do.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 7:35 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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I also agree with Melissa, "ARCs do have ISBNs on them, usually the one for the hardback so no "guessing" is needed.  I would use the contact us link to make the PBS team aware that this person sends ARCs and if there is a pattern of bad trades, they will handle it.

This member admits to a pattern of bad trades.  When posting books, we all have to click through that screen...something like "my book has no liquid damage, is not an ARC, and in generally good conditon..." etc.  

Sorry, but on a book trading site, I expect my fellow members to READ...the obvious directions at the very least.



Last Edited on: 2/28/10 12:00 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/28/2010 9:55 AM ET
Member Since: 12/23/2005
Posts: 3,006
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FYI  She was wrong to send the ARC.  But, as a point of reference, ARCs often have the ISB # for a hardback.

PS I thought Tome's post telling you to be kind was pretty funny since that was the meanest response I've seen to such a question in a long time.



Last Edited on: 2/28/10 9:57 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/28/2010 4:03 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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PS I thought Tome's post telling you to be kind was pretty funny since that was the meanest response I've seen to such a question in a long time.

Oh Barbara, you're so mean to say I was mean. Know what I mean?

Meanie!

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 10:39 AM ET
Member Since: 5/27/2006
Posts: 11,985
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I have a sinking feeling I'm about to get an ARC in the mail.  The book doesn't come out until mid July, the person who posted it to me has no profile, no books posted, and no books on their wishlist.

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 11:40 AM ET
Member Since: 10/27/2007
Posts: 2,284
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I just got a book in the mail that was an ARC and it had a ton of writing in it.  I contacted the sender and they were fairly new.  She gave me my credit back and I sent her back the book.  No problems...she was easy to work with. 

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 12:42 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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PS I thought Tome's post telling you to be kind was pretty funny since that was the meanest response I've seen to such a question in a long time.

I'm glad you said something about this.  I thought it was rather ironic myself.  I didn't find the OP's post particularly offensive, but I did find several responses to be more than offensive.  You gotta love people who accuse someone of someting they are doing themselves. 

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 3:46 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2005
Posts: 1,724
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Awwww, I love Tome even when she is being mean.

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 5:30 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Also, if we are supposed to believe the best in people instead of making judgements, I would imagine then that it is probably a pretty good guess that the OP sent a very nice PM in the first place, but becaue of the crazy response she got, she then became upset and I've personally read many, many times, "It's ok, come in here and rant all you want, we've all been there" So, why on earth would some of you jump the OP for ranting? That's been suggested as a release valve to many members of the forums so many times, that *I* thought it was ok. Guess we shouldn't believe all the nice folks that tell us it's ok to come in here and rant rather than sending a scathing PM to the other member. Count me confused!!!

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 5:51 PM ET
Member Since: 9/18/2005
Posts: 6,963
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Thank you Sherry...I was thinking the same thing!  The poor OP was probably just venting (seems to me I remember her actually SAYING that!) and then she practically got flogged.  Another thing is she was actually pointing out something that is (sadly) done all too often here at PBS.  It's not that hard to know if you have an ARC in-hand...they say something like "NOT for RESALE" or "Advanced Reader Copy" all over the front and are not that hard to recognize.  So for a person who openly admits that she sends ARC's on a regular basis is someone who needs to be called on the carpet for it...albeit in a nice way. :)

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 5:54 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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I have a sinking feeling I'm about to get an ARC in the mail.  The book doesn't come out until mid July, the person who posted it to me has no profile, no books posted, and no books on their wishlist.

It's possible they are a book reviewer and the publisher sent them a final copy early. I once got a book almost a month before it was released because the person was a book reviewer and got it from the publisher. I was so sure it would be an ARC since it was so early. It wasn't, and I mentioned it in my thank you PM which they replied to explaining for me how they had a final copy so early. :)

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 10:17 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I've personally read many, many times, "It's ok, come in here and rant all you want, we've all been there" So, why on earth would some of you jump the OP for ranting? That's been suggested as a release valve to many members of the forums so many times, that *I* thought it was ok. Guess we shouldn't believe all the nice folks that tell us it's ok to come in here and rant rather than sending a scathing PM to the other member. Count me confused!!!

I felt the same way & didn't say anything, thinking maybe I was just being sensitive or something, or just figured maybe some people were having an off day.  The first post looked like a vent to me, not even an exceptionally cranky one at that, and I dunno how you can tell if someone was snippy and condescending in a pm from looking at a minor forum rant.  Just MHO. 

Date Posted: 3/1/2010 10:59 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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Awww, raspberries.

I had typed out some witty (if I say so myself) and  catty responses to the cattiness. But then thought, ahh, that will never do. That's just starting a flame war.

and that's way to enjoyable to some of you who are skilled in carrying on for cyber pages.

So get it out of your system.  Get your popcorn.

call me a shitheel and a meaner and bring out your Harumph machines and Well-I-Never halos.

I can take about 12 more catty responses and I am always open for a couple of flounces even if they're phoney.

but only one more peanut gallery comment from our close friend, Plastic Kate.;)

 

I say all this in snark, and insincere love, and pure fun. It's Onery and Defensive Day.

and if you don't know I am joking right now, then poor you.evilgrin0036.gif

 

 

and now, for real.

 

My apologizies to Karen if I hurt your feelers. Sorry that I ruined your rant . 



Last Edited on: 3/1/10 11:28 PM ET - Total times edited: 4
Date Posted: 3/2/2010 1:17 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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"I have a sinking feeling I'm about to get an ARC in the mail..."  that's probably a good guess Lori.  Books are rarely released more than 4 to 6 weeks early.  Prior to that, it's usually ARC's even to Book Reviewers...thus the name Advance Review Copy.  And if your guess is correct Lori...do feel free to come and vent as needed, we're here for you 



Last Edited on: 3/2/10 7:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/2/2010 11:42 AM ET
Member Since: 5/27/2006
Posts: 11,985
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It's possible they are a book reviewer and the publisher sent them a final copy early. I once got a book almost a month before it was released because the person was a book reviewer and got it from the publisher. I was so sure it would be an ARC since it was so early. It wasn't, and I mentioned it in my thank you PM which they replied to explaining for me how they had a final copy so early. :)

Most of the book I get are ARC's and they are from publishers for me to review on my blog. I've become fairly friendly with most of them as well as some authors. I've asked both their thoughts on this, and the publisher said that there is no way that there is a final copy of the book out there 4 1/2 months before the publication date. Yesterday I received an ARC of a book that doesn't come out until the end of August. It is definitely not the final copy of the book.   I do get books (the final copy) from a publisher the month before they are due to be released, so they are printed and ready to go - but not this far in advance.

And if your guess is correct Lori...do feel free to come and vent as needed, we're here for you 

Thanks Denise. I checked her account again, and it appears that she's a new member. She posted 10 books (after the one she posted to me) on 3/1.  I'm just concerned as to how many other ARC's she posted.  I love when the site gets new members, and she probably didn't sit and read through everything. BUT - there are big screaming letters at you making sure that you aren't posting an ARC, etc.  Now, because it's her first transaction I'm not sure how to handle it.  As a TGL I know I should mark it RWAP.  But a part of me feels bad doing that since she's new, it's probably her first transaction and maybe a nice PM would work. On the flip side, she needs to learn what the rules are/aren't. I don't need the credit back. Ugg....

Date Posted: 3/2/2010 12:42 PM ET
Member Since: 12/8/2007
Posts: 1,011
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When I was a less experienced member, I accidentally posted/sent an ARC. I had NO idea what they were and had found the book at a UBS (didn't read the back cover where the ARC marking was and there was nothing on the front). The member who received it was soooo nice about it though. She was polite when letting me know that it was an ARC and therefore not postable.  I quickly apologized and refunded her credit and she was graciously thanked me for handling it so quickly. Then later on I received an ARC that plainly had "Advanced Reader Copy" marked along all four sides of the front cover in a continuous loop. I was very nice when I emailed the sender and told her it was an ARC and requested my credit back. The member literally about blasted my cyber-ears off!! Rude, rude, rude reply that basically accused me of trying to get something for nothing and told me to never order from her again. Well, no problem honey-pie coz' if I ever order a book and see that it is coming from her, I will cancel that order even if I drop on the wait list from 1 all the way down to 500!!

Date Posted: 3/2/2010 1:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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Lori- you definitely need to mark that RWAP so that you get your place back in line for when the book comes out. IMO, because she is new is a reason why you should mark it RWAP, that will help her learn (1) she can't be posting things that she shouldn't - if people start out letting her get away with it she may not stop and (2) she should also be properly marking RWAPs when she gets them. You can do it politely and not ask for your credit back, but not following procedure sets her up to learn that the procedures and rules don't need to be followed here.

Date Posted: 3/2/2010 1:18 PM ET
Member Since: 5/27/2006
Posts: 11,985
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I agree 100% Melanie.  And I knew that when it came I would mark it RWAP.   I guess I still have that softie spot in my heart and wished I had caught it before she had marked it mailed. All my books are on AR, and I wasn't sure on the release date on this one. Once I got into work the next day to check my list, I saw it was July and too late to do anthing about it as she had marked it mailed.   People won't learn unless we show them how it's done. I probably won' t ask for my credit back as a) I don't need it and b) as I said, all I pretty much read now are ARC's, so it won't bother me with this one either ;)

Date Posted: 3/2/2010 1:19 PM ET
Member Since: 10/22/2009
Posts: 1,452
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Lori--

If you do indeed get an ARC, maybe before marking it received you could send a polite PM first explaining that ARCs are not allowed and you won't be able to post it so you'd like your credit refunded...(or not).

Then, depending on how she responds, and if you feel she made an honest mistake and understands not to do it again then just mark it received.  If she responds to your PM rudely, mark the book RWAP so that it will be on her record.


ETA--Melanie and Lori--You guys are quick!  I didn't think I took that long to type up my message, but both of you snuck in!



Last Edited on: 3/2/10 1:21 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/2/2010 8:03 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Lori, totally understand your dilema.  If it's an honest newbie mistake (it can take awhile to read & understand all the rules) she could potentially get several RWAPs very soon.  Considering the Release Date, maybe a nice pm now could save her from mailing even more ARCs in the meantime?  Wouldn't want to loose a new member over a misunderstanding, then feeling discouraged over a bunch of problem transactions.  Unfortunately, the only way to keep your place in line is RWAP or throw yourself on the mercy of TPTB.

So Lori, what's the ARC title?  ;)



Last Edited on: 3/2/10 8:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/2/2010 11:04 PM ET
Member Since: 6/12/2009
Posts: 81
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I've got to say that I've had Karen's experience many more than two times.  I mostly request hardcovers since I reread my books and like that hardcovers are more sturdy.  You would not imagine the things I get in the mail.  Paperbacks with the same ISBN as the hardcover, paperbacks with a different ISBN, ARC's...basically everything but what I request.  I don't mind educating new members, but I think what really gets both Karen and me is the attitude we get back after a polite PM to the sender.  They act like it's our fault as the receiver that they sent out something against the rules.  And I've had many that also refused to refund my credit, which starts to affect the 'ol account after a time.  Whew...and that's my follow up rant to Karen's original rant.  :D

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