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Topic: Do I have to accept this book (already sent)

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Subject: Do I have to accept this book (already sent)
Date Posted: 11/4/2008 12:52 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2007
Posts: 42
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Let me start off by apologizing if I get long winded and confusing.. I am mad... that makes me babble.. lol

I asked for a book Sept 25th. It was marked sent Sept 27th. I was anxious to get it as it was in a series and I was done with the previous and I have the one following.. It was only coming from 1 state over  so after not receiving it by Oct. 7thI requested another and was going to post the book I got last for a credit, no biggie.. I got the 2nd book and no word from the 1st. I had PM'd the 1st sender and within 1 minute I got a reply saying she asked the post office and was assure it went out.. I thought that was weird since there was no way she could have asked in 60 seconds and it wasn't "officially" late.. that was my 1st serious red flag.

I was told last week that the book was sent October 7th. 1 week after she sad t was originally sent. I was told she had someone else mail it for her (2nd major red flag)  I sent a message to PBS and had not heard back and today I get the book in the mail! Postage says NOVEMBER 1st! I am so mad.. why bother to lie about something so stupid?  Anyway, do I need to accept the book or can I return to sender and be dome with it. I have sent a 2nd message to PBS but was curious what you all though..

Sorry if this is confusing.. I am confused myself! lol

jan

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 1:03 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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was it a metered postage stamp with the date or the cancellation stamp?  if it was the cancellation stamp it could have just not been stamped until 11/1.

I'm assuming it went lost in the meantime?  I don't think you have to give that person the credit (so don't mark it received)

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 1:22 PM ET
Member Since: 5/20/2008
Posts: 1,123
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Yes, if it went lost, and since you already ordered another, you are not obligated to give the lost book sender a credit.

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 1:23 PM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,718
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If the book was *postmarked* mailed before the official lost date, you have to give the credit for it, as per the help files. If the book was postmarked AFTER the official lost date, and you have ordered another copy, you do not have to give credit for it.

If the postmark is metered you'll have no trouble determining the date of mailing. If it's a stamped cancellation, check the zip code on the stamp. If it's hers, it was mailed late. If it's yours, it was just cancelled late in it's journey. They very rarely get cancelled anywhere other than the first and last post offices they hit.



Last Edited on: 11/4/08 1:25 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 11/4/2008 1:31 PM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,718
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Here's the help files info on this situation:

  • *If the book was mailed late and had already been declared Lost at PBS before it was mailed (and you re-requested the book and got it from someone else), this is an exception:
    • If a sender wants to mail a book that has been declared Lost at PBS already she needs to contact you with a Personal Message asking you to confirm that you still want the book from her, and
    • You would need to have confirmed that you still wanted her copy of the book in a Personal Message in reply to hers before she mailed it.
    • If a sender sends a book this late without getting confirmation from you that you have not gotten another copy in the meantime, the sender has made the mistake here; in this case,  you are not obligated to mark the lost book received nor are you obligated to return the extra copy.

However the help files also do say that if the book was mailed before the date it went lost, you do HAVE to give the credit for it because it was your choice to order a 2nd copy before the 1st copy officially went lost...

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 2:04 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2007
Posts: 42
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Thanks all! It was mailed a full week after it was lost. It was a metered postage stamp and was clearly sent out on the 1st..  I just don't it,  get why lie about something so silly?

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 2:25 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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Have you considered that she DID ask someone else to mail the book...there are many members on this site that are unable to get to the post office themselves....that person told her they mailed it and really didn't but, then later found the package and mailed it.

BTW...that exact scenario has happened.

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 3:26 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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Techincally Bren is right and you do not have to credit her.  But the fact is, you ordered a 2nd copy *before* the book ever went Lost, because you were anxious to get it,  fully intending to mark them both received and post the other book.  You might not have to mark it received technically, but I think it's the right thing to do.

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 3:40 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 8,411
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What Beth said.  :)

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 3:42 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,201
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I agree with Beth. Its probable that the first copy would not have made it to you by the time you ordered the second copy if it had been mailed on time. She could have had someone else mail it for her and they didn't put postage on it so it came back to her and that is why it was sent so late. The Help Center says she needs to talk to you before sending it late and it sounds like she did that and believed you were expecting the book.

Hopefully the site leaders will make a call based on the correspondence between the two of you and with them. If she is saying it was send before the lost date and you are saying it wasn't then they will need to sort that out. The fact that you reordered the book long before the tiem was up that system gave for it to reach you really muddies that waters on this one IMO.



Last Edited on: 11/4/08 3:47 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/4/2008 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 7/5/2007
Posts: 2,215
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Some people seem to be saying that "it's possible the sender has people mail books out for her", basically placing the blame on this unknown third person.  I'm sorry, but IMHO, if you say you've mailed a book and hand it off to someone else you are STILL responsible for the book being mailed if this person does not mail it on time.

Also, regardless of the fact she ordered a second copy before the first was officially marked lost, it does not change the fact that the sender of the first book did not send it until AFTER it went lost.  And quite possibly lied about it.  At the very least, if she discovered a problem with it being mailed (or not), she -should- have kept the OP in the loop.

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 9:28 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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The fact that the requestor ordered a second copy of the same book BEFORE the first one had had time to go lost does not weight in on this issue at all...the requestor acknowledges that she knew she was going to receive two copies of the same book.  "I requested another and was going to post the book I got last for a credit, no biggie.."  So, the issue of the second book has no berring on whether she marks the first book received or not.

The bottom line is determining the actual date of mailing...if it has a metered stamp on it then that would be a trustworthy date to use...you can't totally trust the date of postmark as that does not have to orignate from the origin but, can be placed anywhere along the line.

Date Posted: 11/4/2008 10:01 PM ET
Member Since: 7/22/2007
Posts: 1,127
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How about telling the sender you will credit her ... after someone else orders it from you & you've sent it! Then everyone gets their credit, but the sender has to wait a while, as did you.
Date Posted: 11/4/2008 10:25 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,201
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Some people seem to be saying that "it's possible the sender has people mail books out for her", basically placing the blame on this unknown third person. - My pointing this out was only addressing the fact that the OP was say that the fact that someone else might have mailed the book for her was a red flag. We have a lot of handicapped and/or homebound members where this is a common occurance. There is a lot of reference to the honesty of the original sender and I wanted to point out that the original sender may be an honest swapper who really thinks the book was sent on 10/7. The sender says they talked to the PO, maybe they did and the PO had misplaced it so they reprinted the meter strip and sent it on (yes, I have seen this happen). All I was getting at is that there are really innocent reasons for this happening. The OP seems to want to paint the sender as a bad swapper. This could be as easy as a PM to the sender and them offering either proof the book was mailed on time and the PO made a mistake, or he/she getting the truth out of whoever should have mailed it and saying sorry don't worry about it.

The bottom line is determining the actual date of mailing... I agree this, with an exception. The Help Center states that the sender needs to contact the receiver and talk about it before sending the book. The OP indicates that there WAS communication. If the communication did not give the original sender any indication that she/he shouldn't send the book, even if they knowingly mailed out the book late they may believe they followed the rules on sending a book late.

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 2:09 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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The fact that the requestor ordered a second copy of the same book BEFORE the first one had had time to go lost does not weight in on this issue at all

Frankly, my point had nothing to do with the technicalities of the situation, as I already said the HC says she does not *technically* have to give credit.  However, right and wrong are not based solely on technicalities.  She planned to order two books, she planned to mark two books received and she planned to repost one. She got two books, she should mark them both received and she should post one.  This not because she "has" to, but because it's the right thing to do.  It's also what she *planned* to do anyway.  The fact that the first sender mailed late does not weigh in if the OP goes based on what the *planned to do anyway*. 

Even if one grants that the sender did the "wrong" thing, we are left with the adage of two wrongs not making a right. 

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 3:40 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2007
Posts: 42
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First of all, thanks for all the opinions.

Let me start by saying that I was lied to. If the book had not gone out why not just say "oh gosh, I realized it didn't go out when I thought it did, sorry I am sending it now" Nope.. instead she lied.. Based on the info she had given me.. she lied. simple. 

My original plan was to send it out as credit but now frankly I would rather send it back to her and be done. What I will do however is whatever the BPS powers that be tell me to do. 

I am not trying to screw her out of a credit but what was done is wrong. period.

The fact of  "Have you considered that she DID ask someone else to mail the book...there are many members on this site that are unable to get to the post office themselves....that person told her they mailed it and really didn't but, then later found the package and mailed it.BTW...that exact scenario has happened."

Why should that make a difference? So pass the buck? It is the members responsibility. As for disabled and home bound.. sorry , that doesn't wash with me. I am disabled. Not quite home bound bus close sometimes.  If I can not get to a post office I print the postage and have the mail man pick it up. If I were to hand a piece of mail out to someone else to mail I should EXPECT something to possibly go wrong and ACCEPT responsibility for it. No passing the buck, no crossing fingers. Do what you say and yo don' t have to make excuses and lies.. when did that become the exception to the rule?

Sorry to sound so angry but if I was kept informed and no excuses made it would have happened like I planned. It may still happen with me giving credit  but I have to wait for BPS to tell me what to do.

If anyone thought otherwise I am not and was not going to keep the book without giving credit. It would either go back to her or she would get a credit. I WOULD NOT keep a book without giving credit no matter what happened.  I love this site and would like it to be around for a long time. I actually count on it for books since I do have a lot of time and not a lot of money.  I hope this situation does not make anyone consider not trading with me.  If it does, I am truly sorry.

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 3:46 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2005
Posts: 253
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The Help Center states that the sender needs to contact the receiver and talk about it before sending the book. The OP indicates that there WAS communication. If the communication did not give the original sender any indication that she/he shouldn't send the book, even if they knowingly mailed out the book late they may believe they followed the rules on sending a book late.

Except that the help center says that "If a sender wants to mail a book that has been declared Lost at PBS already she needs to contact you with a Personal Message asking you to confirm that you still want the book from her, and you would need to have confirmed that you still wanted her copy of the book in a Personal Message in reply to hers before she mailed it."  Just because there was a "communication" regarding the book, the sender did not actually verify that Janice still wanted her copy.  The only issue at hand is that the sender did not mail the book until it had gone lost in the system.  Under this rule, Janice is not obligated to give a credit to the sender for this book.  It would be nice of her, yes, but absolutely not required whatsoever.

ETA:  Janice, if it were me, I would keep the book and not give a credit.  Sounds mean, but there are too many people that take advantage of other members.   This person did not follow the rules, and now has to deal with the consequences!  Phooey on her!



Last Edited on: 11/5/08 3:51 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/5/2008 4:08 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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I think that the book should either be returned to the sender or marked received and reposted.

I'm really sorry to hear all the anger related to this issue...to call the sender a liar is wrong...and to talk about home bound shut-ins is awful....

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 5:15 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2007
Posts: 42
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I am sorry but lying makes you.. well, a liar does it not?

Home bound a shut ins.. that is an excuse to pass the buck? nope.. remember I was talking about disabled and people in situations like MYSELF... 

Julie, I won't keep the credit but I am glad you are all for responsibility! lol Doesn't always seem important anymore, does it..

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 5:39 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I agree with Julie too.  Don't know whether I'd go with her final solution or not, but it hardly matters since I'm not standing in Jan's shoes and I'd rather not get pelted with rotten tomatoes for choosing the wrong answer:P  Jan, I think sometimes people will screw up & do something dumb, and then rather than admit they did this dumb thing, they'll make an excuse, run back and try to fix the mistake before it gets them in trouble, and then hope the other party/parties involved won't notice.  Does that make them liars?  Well... if they were my kids, yes:P  Good luck with this, & try not to let it drive you crazy.  This too shall pass:P

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 6:17 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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Without knowing BOTH  sides of this issue it is difficult to know who is right and who is wrong because as of right now we have heard only one side of the story.  The person may or may not be telling the truth, even you the recipient of the book do not know that FOR SURE!!! 

Real Incident:  Sender posts a book, they ask someone to mail it for them...that person tells the sender they mailed the book when actually they didn't...sender marks the book mailed...book starts edging towards going lost, sender asks the person again did they mail the book and that person says yes they did.  The book goes lost, and the sender asks one more time "did you mail the books" and the person says yes, BUT in fact they did not mail them until that very day.  The sender did not know until the requestor actually received the book what the actual date of mailing was...NOW, did the sender Lie when she told the requestor the book was mailed...NO!  Did she do everything in her power to make sure the person mailed the book, YES!!!         You'll say well she could use PBS postage and hand it to her postal person, not everyone has the means to use PBS postage (ie: a credit card) and cannot afford the extra charge to use it either.

Things happen, people screw up...I just really don't get your anger it seems so out of proportion to the issue.

I'd just give her the credit, post the book, send it out and obtain a credit, put it behind you and move on...otherwise you are just going to extra work  for nothing!!!

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 6:47 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,201
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Thank you Christy - that is the point I was trying to make.

Date Posted: 11/5/2008 7:49 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2007
Posts: 42
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Alright.. this is getting me crazy.. I really don't know why I am so angry about this situation but posting about it here did me no good. Not because I didn't like the advice I got (I thank all of you for everything you said .. yes, even the stuff I didn't agree with! lol) 

I want to apologize for sounding so angry.. I guess this is something I have to look into huh? (not the book, the self anger part! lol)  sorry if I got personal with anyone and I feel stupid for being so holier than thou..

I don't think it is a good thing for me to come back to this post so forgive me for not responding to anything said further..

Thanks everyone!

signed,

the angry one..