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Topic: Is This Allowed? Canceled Request (asked for a deal)

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Subject: Is This Allowed? Canceled Request (asked for a deal)
Date Posted: 10/8/2015 4:02 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 462
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a member posted a wishlist of mine this morning.  i have had this book on my wishlist for a while so i accepted it right away. this wishlist book is a part of a series of books. i looked at the members shelf and saw that they had a few other books from this series that i am also looking for so i sent the member a pm asking if they would be willing to do a 3 credits for 5 books (i had found 4 others books besides the wishlist one) the member sent me a pm declining the deal request. which i was okay with. problem is then they canceled the wishlist book request as well. this is the reason the member gave for canceling the wishlist book request.

Hi! Thanks for asking, but keeping the set together seems valuable in itself, just plain "literarily". It's worth it to me just to have it as a set as a gift more than just 4 credits for half the set. The postage saved is pretty trivial; 4 credits for 5 books just doesn't seem fair from my end, given the value I place on it all.

so my question are they allowed to cancel a wishlist book request because i asked for a deal? that seems to be their reason for canceling the wishlist book is because they place more value on the set of 10 books kept together. i find it weird that she posted a wishlist book and then canceled the request because i asked for a deal. i looked in the PBS rules and cannnot find a rule that is for a situation like this.

 

I also noticed after i requested the wishlist book  that this member posted in the book bazaar a post for someone who wants the whole set. i am starting to think that she only canceled my request after she got a better offer for the whole set. isn't this a violation of the conditions that state if you post books into the system you are willing to send 1 book tranactions to other members without expecting the requestor to request more then one book?

 

any help with this confusion is much appreciated thanks.



Last Edited on: 10/8/15 4:10 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/8/2015 4:30 PM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2007
Posts: 5,684
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Hi Molly,

Members cancel requests all the time. Sometimes it's just because of the weather - they can't get to the Post Office. Or they're going on vacation. Or they promised or lent it to a relative. I will agree that it's "poor conduct" to post a book and then not send it. However the cancel button is available to the sender up until the time they mark it mailed.

Carol K.

 

Date Posted: 10/8/2015 5:06 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,658
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In defense of the poster, they might have felt you only wanted the WL book you were offered IF you got the deal.  However, if they cancel,  the book comes off their shelf, then if they were to repost it, it would go back to you as an offer since you went back to spot #1 when they cancelled the request.  But probably what happened is your post made them realize they could get rid of more books all in the series so it makes sense that they are going to try to get the most credits for mailing the one package. So, yeah, you get skipped that way.

My issue is that ALL the WL offers in the book bazaar are outside of the WL line so this happens all the time.

Date Posted: 10/8/2015 5:57 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 777
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Frankly I do not see any other response on the poster's side. You asked for a deal they were unwilling to accomdate. It is reasonalble to assume that  this annoyed you, which it apparently did, and so they wish to protect themself by not entering into any transaction with you.

 

Date Posted: 10/8/2015 5:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 777
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Frankly I do not see any other response on the poster's side. You asked for a deal they were unwilling to accomdate. It is reasonalble to assume that  this annoyed you, which it apparently did, and so they wish to protect themself by not entering into any transaction with you.

 

Date Posted: 10/8/2015 6:34 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2014
Posts: 2,793
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PBS cannot compel them to send the wl book but the reason they gave might look bad on their swapping record.  Maybe they did not know the book was wl when they posted.  Some people post without knowing the availability/demand of books. 

It's clear a deal is not important to them.  I would message them that I would like all 5 books for 5 credits and see what they say.

 Sometimes just getting the books is a good deal!  

Date Posted: 10/9/2015 3:58 PM ET
Member Since: 8/3/2009
Posts: 542
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I have to say I think this is pretty rude. They obviously didn't think about the possibility of offering the set as a box deal until after you PMed them, and then to renege on their commitment to offer the book to someone who wanted it is pretty lame. I don't think it's strictly against PBS rules, since you are allowed to cancel sending books if something comes up. PBS can't regulate whether someone cancels for something unavoidable like illness or car trouble, or something less admirable like this situation.

If I'm reading your original post correctly, the other books you wanted from their bookshelf weren't wishlisted, only the original book. So a 5 for 3 points deal was not insulting at all. Of course, the sender doesn't have to accept any deals, but pretending like it's somehow lowballing them is inaccurate. Yes, all books at PBS are worth a point, but we all know that some books are in higher demand than others.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they can't ask for more than the 'usual' points in the Book Bazaar - multiple book orders can be offered in the Bazaar, but they can't ask for more than the 10 points the books would be worth ordinarily.

(Mary K, I disagree with you strongly - there's no reason to 'expect' that someone would be annoyed by a refusal to take a book deal, at least not annoyed to the point that you'd have to worry about reprisal. And to me, listing a book on your bookshelf is saying that you are willing to send it out to someone, barring unexpected circumstances. Offering a book and then changing your mind just because you think you can get a better deal is unacceptable. One should figure out what one's happy with before listing a book, and then stick with what one makes available.)

Date Posted: 10/9/2015 4:22 PM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 9,381
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Laura,

 

I think Mary makes a valid point. Some people get annoyed at things like this (like asking for a deal when one isn't offered) and when they say no, they are worried that someone can rwap them. 

Also, if the member realized that she could move a se and wants to offer it that way, that's fine. I have had what I think are uncool reasons for cancelling WL requests (like, I'm not ready to part with it, I changed my mind, I don't want to send it, and oops I promised his book as a donation to a group so I can't send it) but yes, they can cancel it. They can just cancel with no reason.

I mostly wanted to say that Mary makes a valid point and if someone wanted to rwap, it would be a huge hassle. If the sender says no, these were good and I won't give the credit than it's a mark against the sender. If the sender gives the credit back, the receiver gets her credit plus the books and if the sender says send hem back, then she has to send 2 crdits for every book to cover postage. In any of those situations, the sender is the one losing out.

Date Posted: 10/9/2015 10:14 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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Michelle, your understanding of a rwap seems a bit off. Someone cant keep the credits from the sender by using the rwap system. The sender gets them and had to give back if they agree. Their also isn't a real option for not getting a deal asked for in a PM. I'm not sure how someone would rwap that, they'd have to lie.

 

 

Senders are supposed to honor sending books they post. But they own them and the site can't make them send them. Too many cancellations will get an account looked at and could get someone's account closed I they think people are just not honoring transactions too much.

Date Posted: 10/10/2015 4:01 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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I agree with Melanie, "...Senders are supposed to honor sending books they post...."  Per the terms of use, by posting a book FIFO a member agrees to send the book in a timely manner when requested. 

There is no big bad penalty for withdrawing a book occasionally...real life happens. Books have accidents and become unpostable and many of us have accidentally had a book go FIFO that we meant to post to a friend. But withdrawing a book mid transaction just to post it in the bazaar is tacky...mentioning this to PBS admin would not be over-sensitive on your part.

Date Posted: 10/11/2015 8:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 777
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Well. requesting a book and then changing your mind that you now want a deal that was not offered is also not cool!



Last Edited on: 10/12/15 5:40 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/12/2015 1:50 AM ET
Member Since: 1/25/2010
Posts: 3,005
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She didn't say that she only wanted the original book with the suggested deal though, just the other books that she PMed about. It'd be one thing if she requested them all and then asked for the deal, but she requested 1 title and asked about the others - she still wanted the WL title either way, no mind-changing required. If she'd requested them all before asking, I'd say that the sender would be within their rights to just click accept on all of the requests and send without the deal, but all she had to say was that she wasn't offering a deal at the time and go ahead and honor the initial request.

The sender didn't do anything against site policy (though if she does it too much she'll probably get noticed by TPTB), but she could have definitely handled most points of the matter better.

Date Posted: 10/12/2015 12:13 PM ET
Member Since: 6/20/2007
Posts: 4,979
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Like others have said, it seems to me that after receiving your PM she decided to try to offer the set as a box set in the bazaar instead. But what I'm confused on is this: if the one book is WL but the others are not, isn't it against site rules to REQUIRE someone to order books non-WL off your shelf in order to receive the WL book? If that's what's going on, then there is an issue. How else is she offering these as a set?

Date Posted: 10/12/2015 1:58 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2014
Posts: 2,793
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I wonder what will happen when someone tries to order one of those books on their shelf.  Will they say they don't want to mail one book from the series?  This is the type of situation where offering a deal is good for both parties.  Sounds like they feel trading all the books together for full credits barely acceptable. I can certainly understand this if the books are special to the member, in great condition and maybe valuable. 



Last Edited on: 10/12/15 2:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 10/13/2015 12:10 PM ET
Member Since: 6/20/2009
Posts: 202
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I've had a few similar "attitudes" back from people I've requested a mutliple book deal from. The majority of the time other members are happy to comply. So don't gove up. It creates more activity for all of us.

I haven't done it yet, but it's always in my mind to walk away - - - - then later come back and order just one book for one credit (at a time) spread over a month or two so they learn what the cost of book credits are versus Media Mail rate savings. Be creative!

Date Posted: 10/13/2015 1:29 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2014
Posts: 2,793
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That would certainly be a learning experience Ken!  

I think you're right, some people don't realize they can make a 5 books for 3 credits deal and save postage over earning 3 credits and sending 3 packages.  It's 50¢ for the next pound of media mail. 

Date Posted: 10/14/2015 9:20 AM ET
Member Since: 6/20/2007
Posts: 4,979
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I recently had a member order a book from my shelf, and they sent me a PM asking if I'd include a second book, but if not, no worries. I was happy to include the second book. It does me no good sitting in my office taking up space--I'd much rather send it along! That was always my thinking with regard to deals--better to send a 2nd book for free (or whatever deal we worked out) than to keep it sitting on my shelf taking up space.

Date Posted: 10/14/2015 5:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 777
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Lovely thought. Perhaps the original poster sent out a different vibe and got a differnt result?

Date Posted: 10/14/2015 6:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 462
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i heard back from this sender a few days ago. she sent me a pm asking me if i had ordered a different title from the series of books she has posted in the book bazaar. when i said that i had requested a wl book that she had posted and asked for a deal she acted confused. 

she pmed me back and said that another member had answered her book bazaar post and asked for the wl book and another book that was not posted in the system as she can't post it  without it going to a member's wl. (ironically i am the only member wishing for the book) so the book i orginally ordered from her (the wl book) was sent as a single book to another member. she did say she was willing to have me order 5 of the 10 books from this series from her shelf at the 5 for 4 credits i originally asked her about.

today she got back to me and asked me to change one of my rc's so that she can send the books to me. i have a few rc's one of which is weather related where i state that because of  weather (rain snow etc that all books/packages must be wrapped in plastic) all my other rc's are fine. but this particular one doesn't really work for her. i am starting to think that this member is just a  person who makes it her life's mission to be difficult. or she loves to make drama out of everything. either that or she has a lot of extra time on her hands to sweat the small stuff.



Last Edited on: 10/14/15 7:29 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/15/2015 3:06 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2008
Posts: 5,706
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Whenever I've asked for a deal I always say" willing to give the same deal on my books"  Because its only fair.



Last Edited on: 10/15/15 3:06 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/16/2015 8:26 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2010
Posts: 1,540
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Member POSTED WL book into FIFO.   I believe it is in the spirit of this club, and certainly the courteous thing to do,  to send out books you post into FIFO.  :)

 

Molly, are you saying she came back and offered you the deal that she turned you down on originally, after trying her luck in the Bazaar and maybe not being able to get rid of the whole set?

 

 

Ken, you are correcct.  Some people don't understand economics........if I had a chance to get 4 credits by throwing in a freebie to SAME person, that would be infinitely better deal than having to send out 5 separate books to 5 separate  people, just to save a credit.  :)  It doesn't make sense.  

Molly, during winter I wrap EVERYTHING in plastic......how much does a baggie cost after all?  LOL  Stuff does get pretty wet in bad weather.  I would not remove that RC personally.  It seems very okay to me.

 

 

Date Posted: 10/17/2015 2:14 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 462
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Molly, are you saying she came back and offered you the deal that she turned you down on originally, after trying her luck in the Bazaar and maybe not being able to get rid of the whole set?

yes winter that is what the member did. she messaged me a few days ago and we played the pm game back and forth with her last pm saying that the one rc i have about plastic just didn't work for her. and  when i told her to just click the doesn't meet members rc button she refused and told me i should be the one to cancel the orders since i was being picky and difficult about used books. lol

now she has not marked the books i ordered as accepted or anything else and is letting the orders time out. all because i won't change the one rc in my conditions because it doesn't work for her. i explained to her that i live in wisconsin and that starting in october through to march i put this rc in because the weather in those months (fall/winter/spring) are bad weather (rainy,snowy etc.) season for our state. and that this safeguards from receiving damaged books. nope she wants me to cancel the order after all of this back and forth nonsense. lol so on sunday the 4 books i ordered will time out and the freebie book will probably go off into the black hole of unanswered orders.



Last Edited on: 10/17/15 2:14 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/17/2015 12:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2010
Posts: 1,540
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>>>her last pm saying that the one rc i have about plastic just didn't work for her. and  when i told her to just click the doesn't meet members rc button she refused and told me i should be the one to cancel the orders since i was being picky and difficult about used books.<<<

It does seem very uncooperative that a sender didn't want to simply put a walmart bag or baggie over a book before they sent it. 

Also, of course, you cannot cancel any books that you have WL,  since you will lose your place in the WL line if you do that.  

I guess this member doesn't understand how the system works.  The few times I've had the opportunity to explain some of the ways the PBS system works to a new-ish member, they were very grateful.   

Sorry you didn't get one of those.  LOL

 

Date Posted: 10/17/2015 1:47 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2014
Posts: 2,793
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That sender must not know it's not a good reflection on their account to let orders timeout.  Also the books will be removed from their shelf for not accepting and mailing.  I'm sorry they're taking this stance over a plastic bag.  Maybe they're anti-plastic and do not have any plastic in their home or they just don't want to use it.  

 



Last Edited on: 10/17/15 1:49 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/17/2015 5:06 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 462
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sadly this is not even a new member according to the posted dates on their bookshelf they have been a member since at least april of 2011. i think i just ran across a member that no matter what just has to be right or something to that effect. oh well. i can't see turning down the chance to get rid of 5 books and get 4 credits. i am happy when i can clear out books and make space. lol i guess not everyone thinks like that.

i still get a kick out of the pm where she said i was being difficult and picky when she's the one who sent me like 5+ personal messages nickpicking at stuff like my rc. lol oh well makes you think.

in the time it and the energy she spent typing those personal messages she could have gotten some plastic to wrap the books in and mailed them and probably had her credits already.  oh well her loss.

 

 

 



Last Edited on: 10/17/15 8:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
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