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Topic: Another RWAP ?? on a book bazaar Deal

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Subject: Another RWAP ?? on a book bazaar Deal
Date Posted: 6/23/2009 10:16 PM ET
Member Since: 5/1/2009
Posts: 6
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So I recently got a 5 for 2 deal off the members bookshelf - no unpostables resquested.

The books arrived to day, very cool they were shipped so fast - however 1 of the 2 books I actually ordered is a RWAP - I am pretty sure anyways.
  Towards the end of the book there is a ripped page more than 1/2 way through, it was repaired poorly with scotch tape and there is read pen marking on the page.

2 of the freebie books from the deal are questionable. Both are board books.  One looks like there are stains oil or something on the back cover and possible one of the pages and the other book is very worn on all of the corners down to bare cardboard on all the corners, and nearly so on the spine also on the spine there is tearing the spine is seperating at the top and bottom of the book.

How do I mark the books I actually ordered?

One recieved ok and the other RWAP, should I PM the member first?

This is the first time I've gotten a RWAP book and it is frustrating.

 

Thank you

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 11:29 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,916
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Technically, you could mark the book you ordered, as an RWAP.  In the PM, you would have the option of asking for a credit back, or not.

My personal opinion is that if it was me, I might mark it RWAP. but I would not ask for a credit back.

Even though members who offer deals off their bookshelves are supposed to be offering postable books, once in a while, this happens.

It sounds like you have  2 postable books, and you paid 2 credits, and even though its really crappy that the other member did this, if it were me, I would just let the credit thing go.

But, I would definitely send them a PM, and let them know that you were extrremely disappointed with the condition of the books they sent out. You might add that books offered in a deal from a bookshelf are supposed to be postable, and the only way that people would expect to get unpostable books were if they accepted them specifically, already knowing that they were unpostable.

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 12:00 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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Sara wrote: It sounds like you have  2 postable books, and you paid 2 credits, and even though its really crappy that the other member did this, if it were me, I would just let the credit thing go.

Of course we each will do what feels right to us, but I would tend to disagree with that. The sending member is the one who had the deal, and in getting such a deal OFF HER BOOKSHELF (not as "freebie" unpostables) I would be expecting to get 5 POSTABLE books for those 2 credits. The sender did not live up to her end of the deal. If one of the requested books was not re-postable, I would mark it RWAP and I would ask for a credit back. 

IMO, as long as we let people offering deals get away with that sort of misconception that books given in a deal don't have to be postable--despite the fact that they were sitting on their bookshelf available for anyone to order in a 1 book for 1 credit transaction, it will continue to be a problem.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 12:10 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2006
Posts: 35,010
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Cheryl, great post. I agree 100%.

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 12:11 AM ET
Member Since: 8/13/2008
Posts: 13,147
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I agree with Cheryl on this one. If you just let it go, I believe it reinforces the behavior because they didn't have to own up to their mistake.



Last Edited on: 6/24/09 12:47 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/24/2009 12:35 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,916
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I figured other people might have a different opinion. Thats more or less why I said, "if it were me, I would just let the credit thing go."

Because I probably would. That's not to say that she shouldn't RWAP the book. She probably should.

I think it is horrible that someone would send out 3 unpostables, even in a deal. However, she did end up with 2 postable books, and she spent 2 credits to get them.  If she ended up with less postable books than credits spent, then I would say she should also ask for her credits back. JMO.

I think the sender is completly wrong in this situation. But, PBS doesn't have a way to adjudicate bazaar deals. 



Last Edited on: 6/24/09 12:36 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/24/2009 2:00 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,286
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I agree with Cheryl on this one also.  If I order a book, I expect to be able to re-post it when I'm done with it, whether it's on a book deal or not.  I do realize that on deals, if you get unpostables and they weren't the ones you actually ordered you're SOL, but still.

I would have asked for my credit back also, as again I expect a book to be postable.  Good luck.  Pat

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 4:45 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Of course I'd mark it RWAP, but as long as I got 2 postable books, I wouldn't ask for the credit refund.  I'd definitely mention that all of the books should be postable if they're listed on her shelf, but as long as I could repost 2 books and get my credits back, I just don't see any reason to ask for a refund.

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 5:02 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/3/15 7:23 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Geri (geejay) -
Date Posted: 6/24/2009 5:40 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
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You know at first I tended toward the well you spent two credits and got two books crowd.  Then I read Cheryl's post and it reminded me of one of mine.  I was offered an unpostable if I ordered a book.  Okay, I found one that I wanted.  The person told me to pick another because we had a bit of a run around.  So, I found another on their shelf.  When the books arrived - it was a two for one - with a known unpostable there was only one good book in the bunch.

I'm sorry to say that I simply didn't realize that I should have told them that the book I picked from their shelf was unpostable.  It's falling apart.  It's not readable because every page you turn comes off the binding.  

I wouldn't have asked for the credit back and I guess that's why I didn't say anything, I did get the book I originally wanted so never thought of saying anything about the unpostable on their shelf.  But, I know I will never order another from the person. 

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 6:09 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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The only real problem I have with Cheryl's suggestion is basically this: 

"as long as we let people offering deals get away with that sort of misconception that books given in a deal don't have to be postable--despite the fact that they were sitting on their bookshelf available for anyone to order in a 1 book for 1 credit transaction, it will continue to be a problem"

It sort of presumes that the person who sent the unpostables had that misconception to begin with.  Maybe they just didn't check them thoroughly enough, or maybe they did check them & still missed it.  Either way, what exact purpose does receiving a credit refund serve other than to make you feel better and teach someone a lesson?  Is that what we're here for?  I don't think so.  RWAPs are not designed to be a punitive measure.  It's very impartial and just serves the purpose of quietly weeding out people who have a problem following rules.  Asking for credit refunds is about fairness.  You should be compensated for whatever you've actually lost, & I don't think that includes patience:P  Just MHO.

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 7:05 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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Either way, what exact purpose does receiving a credit refund serve other than to make you feel better and teach someone a lesson?  Is that what we're here for? 

Not trying to attack but explain things and I am on limited time so its alittle short....

Yes we should report people who make these mistakes.
So it does not keep on happening. 
Mistake or not this person needs to learn the rules better (from the descriptions above) sent some books from her shelf (so they were meant to be postable) that are not fit to be posted on there.
If I sent a book that did not meet the rules, I would want someone to point it out so I did not continue to loose credits. 
What if someone ordered those books for 1 credit, the one recieving them would RWAP and ask for a credit back, 3 out of the 5 received were unpostables so that is 3 credits that person would have lost. Maybe due to not understanding the rules or whatever. 

In this case I would ask for 1 credit back and explain how the others are not postable books.
As for missing things, a reminder might help fix the situation and she might check the rest of her posted books.
Its not about the person getting the credit back it is about books meeting the rules and then no one is going to be upset.



Last Edited on: 6/24/09 7:07 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/24/2009 7:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Okay, so how exactly does reporting the RWAP not accomplish all of that?  That's what it's there for, after all.  Or is it just that the lesson isn't painful enough?  See my point?

Date Posted: 6/24/2009 11:53 PM ET
Member Since: 6/22/2009
Posts: 781
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What does RWAP stand for?

 

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 12:01 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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RWAP = received with a problem.

There are several things that are considered Official problems - most having to do with the book's condition before it was mailed.

 

All of the information below apply both to swapping for credits and Box-O-Books swapping.

General remarks:

  • This is a used-book swapping site; books are not expected to be in like-new condition.
    • Older books may have some page yellowing or spine-creasing or dogeared pages; these are all OKAY.
    • Decirculated library books may have various markings and/or stamps inside or outside or on the page edges of the book; this is OKAY.  These may not obscure text.
    • BookCrossing books may have stickers or stamps or markings on the outside or inside covers or page edges of the book; this is OKAY. These may not obscure text.
    • Hardbacks do NOT have to include their dustjackets.
    • Audiobooks MUST be the original cassettes/CDs, but do NOT have to include the outer "box" that held the set.
    • Audiobooks must be playable.
    • There is an exception to general condition guidelines for textbooks; see below.
    • There is an exception to general condition guidelines for cookbooks; see below.
  • We do NOT have a place for members to describe the condition of a particular copy of a book.
    • ALL books on PBS are expected to be in "good, not excessively worn" condition
    • Books are requested in FIFO (first-in, first-out) order
  • If you would like your books to be in "better-than-PBS" condition :
    • You are responsible for setting Requestor Conditions on your account.

Guidelines:                                                                                                                                       

Overall Condition:

  • No damage at all from water or other liquid
  • Not soiled
  • No stains (exception for cookbooks--see below)
  • No mold
  • no highlighting, underlining or writing on text pages (exception for textbooks --see below)

Dust Jacket:

  • The DUST JACKET (this is not the same as the cover of a book) does not have to be included with a book at all, unless the requestor had this in their Requestor Conditions. 
  • So DUST JACKET condition cannot be considered as part of the condition of a book, unless there were Requestor Conditions on the request specifying that the dust jacket be included.
  • If the Dust Jacket was to be included as specified in the Requestor Conditions on the request, the Dust Jacket must meet the same conditions as defined for the cover, below.

Cover:

  • Must both be present (front and back)
    • note that a paperback missing its front cover is  usually an illegal, unsold copy
    • "cover" does not = dust jacket.  Hardcovers do not need to include their dust jackets to be swapped here.
  • Cover not water damaged (there may be no water damage to any part of the book)
  • Cover not torn or chewed/gnawed
    • some used book stores cut out a small part of the cover; if the amount missing is less than 1 inch, this is OKAY
    • a small rip (less than 1 inch) in the cover is OKAY
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed" above.  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.
  • A bookplate inside the cover or on the flyleaf is OKAY

Binding:

  • Must be intact, with no separation on the inside or outside of the book
  • If the book tends to open at a particular page, this is OKAY
  • Small amount of fraying or denting at top or bottom is OKAY

Pages:

  • No torn or chewed/gnawed pages
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed".  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.
  • No loose or missing text pages
  • Cover not water damaged (there may be no water damage to any part of the book)
  • No writing or highlighting or underlining on text pages
    • a signature or note on the flyleaf or inside front or back cover is OKAY
    • an author's signature on the title page is OKAY
    • writing or highlighting or underlining on the text pages is NOT OKAY
      • Exception: if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing
        • if you post a textbook/workbook, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
        • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO in a reply PM before the book is sent
        • This is the one of the ONLY two cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent(the other is for cookbooks--see below).
  • No staining

    • Exception: Cookbooks may have some mild staining, since these are used in the kitchen and while cooking, and some minor degree of staining could be expected in a used cookbook.  Also a small amount of writing in cookbooks could be expected
    • HOWEVER, if you post a cookbook and it is stained and/or written-in, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
    • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO in a reply PM before the book is sent
    • This is the one of the ONLY two cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent (the other is for textbooks--see above).
    • this exception applies to the covers of cookbooks also.
  • Page edges: remainder marks are OK.  A name written on the page edges is okay (if it does not bleed in and obscure text on the text pages)

Audiobooks

  • Audiobooks must be originals--not copies! 
    • Copies are illegal.  Swapping illegal materials here will get you expelled from the club.
    • burned audio downloads are not permitted on the site--these could be legal (being the only copies you made), but since there is no way to verify this, they are not permitted.
  • Audiobooks do NOT have to include the box that enclosed the individual cassettes/CDs
    • The audiobooks should be packaged well if the box is missing, to prevent damage by USPS en route
    • Audio CDs must be shipped in CD cases/DVD cases, to protect them from scratching, if the original box is missing
  • Audiobooks must be playable to be swapped here, without more than two (minor) skips.

Interactive books

  • These include popup books and children's books that have interactive functions (LEDs, sounds, etc).
  • The functions must be working (popups not torn, sounds/lights functional etc).

Supplementary/Accompanying Materials:

  • Books that require supplementary Media materials MAY be posted

    • supplementary Media materials include CD(s)/CD-ROMs/DVD(s)/VHS tape(s)
    • if the book originally included supplementary Media materials, the supplementary materials must accompany the book for the book to be postable.
  • Books that require non-Media supplementary materials MAY NOT be posted

    • an example would be a book that requires a decoder or craft materials
    • these items cannot be sent MediaMail
  • Books that originally had accompanying non-Media materials that are not required to read the book (ie, jewelry) MAY be posted.
    • The extra material does not have to be included, and if it is included, the book must not be sent using Media mail rate.

 

f a book you sent was marked received with a problem, you will receive an email from PBS notifying you of this, and including a link to the information here.   The information below will help you sort out what the different problem categories are, and also help you resolve the problem swap.

Basically, if you get a Personal Message about the problem, you should:

  • read the information in the PM to understand what the problem was (and consult the information below if necessary to decide if this was indeed a problem swap)
  • reply to the PM offering resolution if there was a problem OR disputing the problem if you believe that this was not a problem swap
    • You can refund credit from the swap itself (click Request Details on the swap in your Transaction Archive to see the Refund button)
    • If you dispute the nature of the problem: you should be sure to write your PM response to the requestor by clicking the PM button on the swap in your Transaction Archive.  This will record your response on the transaction and if your account is ever reviewed for problem swapping, this information will be there to explain what happened in this swap.

  • Remember that the requestor is not required to send the book back at his or her expense.   There is more information about this below.  The sender of a problem book does risk losing credit, book and postage; this is the incentive NOT to send problem books.

If a requestor sends you a Personal Message about a problem swap, you do need to reply, and to resolve the problem if there was one.  Because the requestor can provide follow-up on how the problem was handled, resolving the problem will greatly reduce the effect of a problem swap on your account record. Unresolved problems (or not Responding to PMs about a problem swap) will more seriously affect your account record, if a pattern of this accumulates on your account.  Remember that one problem swap will not harm your account, even if it is marked as unresolved by the requestor who gives follow-up on how you handled the problem.

If you dispute the nature of the problem, you should be sure to write your PM by clicking the PM button on the swap in your Transaction Archive.  This will record your response on the transaction and if your account is ever reviewed for problem swapping, this information will be there to explain what happened in this swap.

More information about problem swaps follows:

What is a problem swap?

There are four types of problem options that a requestor can choose from when marking a book received:

  • Wrong Book

    • This means the book did not match the listed item in one or more of the four necessary aspects--ISBN, Author, Title, Booktype (ie, paperback, hardcover, audio) OR that the book was an inappropriate item (such as an ARC) and should not have been Posted for swapping at PBS
    • Wrong booktype/wrong ISBN swaps are NEVER caused by a "glitch" in the system.  If you posted a hardcover using the paperback listing, you made the error.  The system will not "substitute" an incorrect listing.   If you started by entering the ISBN and then chose instead from the 'alternate ISBN' list shown below the listing preview, that is where you made the mistake.
  • Damaged by Sender

    • This means the book arrived in poor condition, not attributable to USPS damage en route
    • This includes books packaged using tape applied to the book if the book is damaged and rendered unrepostable by opening the package.
  • Damaged by USPS

    • This means the book was damaged en route, either through bad luck or due to inadeqate Wrapping technique
  • Requestor Conditions Violation

    • This means the book did not meet the conditions specified in the requestor's Requestor Conditions that appeared on the request at the time it was accepted

All problem transactions, once they have been marked "Received with a Problem", will be archived in your Transaction Archive.  The sender DOES get credit when the book is marked received with a problem.  The credit should be refunded to the requestor if the problem described is accurate.   We can't intercede in individual problems, but if an account shows a pattern of problem sending, we will intervene.  In all cases of Problem transactions, the receiver does NOT have to send the book back to the sender.

If you are contacted by a requestor about a problem transaction:

  • Please be courteous:
    • The requestor MAY have clicked the wrong button, or may be mistaken about whether or not the transaction was actually a problem, but that could be because she or he is new to the site, or is not clear on the rules.
    • Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Gentle handling of this situation will minimize unpleasantness.
    • Even if you get a rude PM, do not respond in kind.  Abusive PMs should be reported to us.

  • We know that no one wants to have problems with their transactions!
    • Please do not take it too much to heart if you have a book you sent marked received with a problem.
    • If you did wrong, simply learn from this, and resolve not to repeat the error.
    • One problem transaction will not mar your account! However, a pattern of poor sending will jeopardize PBS membership. Best to learn from errors before it is too late: see specific information about the different "Problem Transaction" scenarios below.

  • A requestor does NOT have to return the item in a "problem" transaction
    • if the sender wants the item back, he or she should send postage or a credit to pay for its return.

  • The vast majority of swaps take place at PBS without a problem
    • also the vast majority of problem swaps are settled easily between the swappers. (We cannot adjudicate on individual swaps.)
    • However, there is some level of subjectivity to these situations, particularly with regard to book condition.
    • If you and the requestor cannot come to a happy resolution, you both need to put this behind you and move on. There are too many good swaps to be accomplished at PBS to focus on one bump in the road.
  •  Member-to-member communication is very important at PBS.
    • We do not expect our members to agree in every case, or even to reach a satisfactory resolution to a problem transaction, but it is never acceptable to ignore a PM from a member with whom you have conducted a swap, as long as the PM is appropriate and asks for a response.
    • If one member ignores PMs, we may step in; although we cannot assess the truth of a situation, if one member is refusing to communicate with the other, that member may be judged as "in the wrong" for this reason.
    • Also, the system does track resolutions to problem transactions, so too many unresolved "problem" transaction can mar a sender's account far more than the same number of resolved "problem" transaction will.  Not replying to a PM that clearly asks for a response will act as a "double black mark" on a sender's account, and senders whose accounts show this pattern will be judged as "at fault" if they do not respond after a pattern has been established.

If your book has been marked as a "Wrong Book"

  • This means that the book did not match the listing for the item in one or more of the four necessary aspects: ISBN, Title, Author and Booktype.   Nothing else about a listing needs to match: cover image does not have to match; publisher does not have to match; publication date does not have to match.
    • You can Review the listing you used to Post this book easily from your account:
      • If the book has been marked received,  the transaction will be in your Transaction Archive
      • If it has not been marked received yet, it will be on your Books I've Mailed tab in My Account.
      • In either place you can click the title of the book to see the listing that you used to post the book.
        • You can get to the Transaction Archive by clicking Transaction Archive in the menu that drops down under My Account in the toolbar at the top of any page on the site.  You can read more about how to use the Transaction Archive in the Help Center, accessible from the toolbar at the top of any page on the site.

        • You can get to the Books I've Mailed tab by clicking My Account in the toolbar at the top of any page on the site, and scrolling down if necessary to see this  tab, then clicking it.
    • If your book was listed incorrectly, you should refund the credit.
    • If the wrong booktype came up when you used the ISBN to post this book, then you should read this for instructions on how this book should have been posted
    • If your book was listed as Large Print and the title did not indicate this, this may not be your error: please see this for information.
    • If the book is not merely the wrong version, but a completely different book than the one requested, this happens when a sender puts the wrong book into the wrong wrapper. Please see this.
  • OR

  • Your book was an inappropriate item (should not have been posted for swapping at PBS)
    • This includes ARC s and non-book items, as well as leaflets without ISBNs.
    • See this for a complete description of what is allowed, and not allowed, to be posted at PBS.
    • If you posted an inappropriate item, you should refund the credit to the requestor.

If your book was marked as "Damaged by Sender"

  • This means the book did not meet PBS criteria for swappable condition.
    • Books at PBS must be in "good, not excessively worn" condition. See here for more guidelines on what "good condition" means at PBS.
    • If the damage was limited to the dust jacket of a hardcover, and the requestor did not have any Requestor Conditions requiring dust jackets, then this is not considered damage to a book. Hardcovers do not have to include dust jackets at all; damage to a dust jacket ALONE therefore does not constitute "poor condition" in a book. If ONLY the dust jacket was in poor condition, and the requestor did not have conditions specifying a dust jacket with her book, then you do not have to refund the credit.
    • If you taped the wrapper to the book and the book was damaged (and rendered unrepostable) by opening the package, then you should refund the credit. See here for guidance in wrapping a book.
    • If your book did not meet PBS criteria , you should refund the credit.

If your book was marked as "Damaged by USPS"

  • This means the book was damaged en route by USPS.
    • USPS has a superb record of delivering packages intact, but accidents do happen. If the package was wrapped properly and this was just bad luck, then you do not need to refund the credit.
    • If the method with which the book was wrapped could have contributed to its damage en route, you should read here for guidance in wrapping a book. The main points are: use plenty of tape (2-inch shipping tape, not Scotch), especially to reinforce corners and seams, and make sure that your shipment is completely enclosed within the packaging (there should be no portion of the book(s) inside exposed).
    • If your book was damaged en route due to poor packaging, you should refund the credit.

If your book was marked received as having "Violated Requestor Conditions"

  • This means that your book did not meet the criteria that the requestor had specified in his or her Account Settings
    • You can review the request to see if there were requestor conditions on it, and what they said, from your transaction archive:
      • Click the link "Transaction Archive" at the top of your My Account page
      • Click the link "Request Details" on the request for this book
      • Requestor Conditions will show in a gold oval on the Request Details page
    • Please see here for an explanation of how to use the requestor conditions feature properly.
    • If you sent a book that did not meet the requestor's specified criteria, you should refund the credit.

Related Links:

What can be swapped here?
Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS
How to Wrap a Book
How to Use Requestor Conditions
How do I refund a credit to another member?
How do I give credits to other members?
Follow-up on Problem swaps

 

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 9:44 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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Kim wrote: It sort of presumes that the person who sent the unpostables had that misconception to begin with.  Maybe they just didn't check them thoroughly enough, or maybe they did check them & still missed it. 

Perhaps they did just "miss" it, but still...they are the sender and before posting a book to their shelf, they click on the button that says the book does not have water damage, not an ARC, blah blah blah....so posting a book that does NOT meet those guidelines is their responsiblity whether they posted intending to defraud someone OR just posting it without checking real well.

Either way, what exact purpose does receiving a credit refund serve other than to make you feel better and teach someone a lesson?  Is that what we're here for?

What purpose does it serve?  A) it gives me a credit back....duh! That's a credit I can spend elsewhere on another (hopefully) postable book. A credit is a credit. The OP entered into the "deal" in good faith, expecting to receive all postable books. Two of the five were NOT. So returning the credit back only makes sense...you know, to make up for the two UNpostable books sheI was sent, that sheI won't be able to repost?

And yes...B) teaching lessons is how we learn from our mistakes. Perhaps having an RWAP and having someone request a credit back will mean that person WILL check more carefully next time--so that you or I won't have to deal with another RWAP from her later on. And if she was intentionally posting junky books to give away with deals, RWAPs, especially unresolved ones, will get her moved to the top of the account suspension queue that much faster. Good riddance! 

Cheryl

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 11:31 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,916
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Cheryl,

What you say makes sense and it might be true morally, but PBS does not have rules to enforce Book Bazaar deals.

Of course, it would be fair for people who are offering deals to do it correctly by mailing only postable books if that is what was offered. If the OP asked for her credit back and the sender was willing, obviously that is a good resolution to this problem, but I do not think that PBS requires the sender to refund the credit in this situation. It might be the right thing for the sender to do, but I don't think that they have to, according to any rules.  Especially since the OP got 2 postable books for the 2 credits she spent. The basic promise of PBS is that you will get 1 postable book per one credit spent, and all the rules are geared to enforcing that.

Maybe PBS needs to expand the rules, to cover at least some of these situations. I don't know. But, In my mind, when you are ordering a deal, you are taking your chances, particularly because PBS doesn't enforce them. I've taken advantage of probably 10 or 12, and they usually work out perfectly. But when they don't, I feel you still come out ahead if you end up breaking even with credits to postable books, and most times, you would still probably be ahead and still have more postable books than credits spent.

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 11:43 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Lol.  Cheryl, you're just restating the argument for marking a book RWAP, and trust me hon, I already know it & agree with it:P  The credit refund is a separate issue and should be about what's fair & equitable, and not about sharpening the birch rod - as it were - to make it hurt more.  As you've just said; assuring yourself that the person in question really gets the message & has learned their lesson.  Frankly, I don't think it's your place or mine to punish people.  You or I don't know them or what their intentions were.  We don't know if they have a repeated pattern of problem swaps, and we certainly don't know if they had any intention to defraud someone.  More likely they were just trying to clear out a big stack of books they didn't have room for by offering the deal, and didn't check them closely enough.  We can take two possible courses of action in situtations like this: we can mark the unpostable book that is actually in our transaction archive RWAP, assume this person made an honest mistake, and then repost the two postable books when we're done with them - to recoup that precious credit... duh!  Or we can still mark the RWAP, repost our two repostable books, and try to take the sender to school & teach them a lesson they'll never forget:P 

The really great thing here is that everyone is free to use their best judgement & decide which course works best for them.  I'm glad beyond measure that we have that freedom, and that you - for instance - are free to decide that the RWAP on their record may be insufficient to that lesson, and you can ask for a credit refund as well.  That doesn't work for me personally, but I'm a very live & let live type person, and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt that their mistakes were honest ones.  As long as I'm not going to be out a credit or a postable book, I don't need to come out of the transaction with two postable books - plus a credit I can use to order a third.  Unpostable freebies, IMO, are just a bonus that didn't turn out to be much of a bonus:P  Not being able to repost those for a credit is irrelevant.  In any case, I'm perfectly content to let the PBS team do what they do best and teach problem members their lessons at their discretion, and I think I've done my part as a responsible member by marking the problem transaction accordingly.  I certainly understand the alternative POV & don't really need it explained to me:)  I just don't happen to agree with it.  If I put myself in the OP's shoes, I know exactly what I'd do, and I'm satisifed that my choice is right for me.

 

 



Last Edited on: 6/25/09 11:43 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/25/2009 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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That's all that counts, Kim! I too, am glad we have the freedom to make those decisions for ourselves as to whether to ask for credits back and all that. I also would feel comfortable with my choice, although I admittedly do not participate in 'deals' so maybe I'm not the best judge of what should fly on something like that.

I have only received a very very few RWAPs...can't remember now, either 4 or 6...out of the 1300+ books received over the almost 4 years I've been here...so I am not that experienced with doing the RWAP thing. I just know that I take my responsibility to post only postable books seriously, and I expect the same of others. Mostly, I've not been let down, and I myself if I'd screwed up and did something wrong I would expect to be called on the carpet for it.

If I need space to clear out a bunch of books that are of questionable postability, I bring them to either a FOL sale to donate or to a UBS to get a few shekels in trade. I'd never post them here and just hope to unload them and that they're going to someone who hates conflict and won't call me on it! I had a whole list of "unpostables" on my profile page (free with an order) for a long time and these books were mostly really 'borderline' and probably would have been posted by some folks. But I had very few takers so I hauled them to the UBS a couple weeks ago.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 7:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,201
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but I do not think that PBS requires the sender to refund the credit in this situation. - I think you are wrong here. There is a book transaction that was an official problem, per the Help Center docs, on any RWP official problem the credit should be returned. There is nothing there saying that if you got a deal along with it the credit didn't need to be returned. The books ordered from their shelf must meet guidelines. If the book was one of the freebies sent, thats another story and a little grey, but this was one of the books ordered. Getting the credit back is the OPs right by the PBS rules.

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 7:57 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Cheryl - I don't order from deals anymore, but I can't really say I got burned on any when I did.  There were one or two I wasn't thrilled with, but nothing I had to mark RWAP - thankfully.  I totally agree with you that members should be "called on the carpet" for their own screw-ups.  I'm only saying if they don't end up costing me anything but a little annoyance & aggravation, then I don't feel I need to be compensated for anything.  I think the RWAP should be the consequence, and the refunds be solely based on what you've actually lost.  That means definitely, I do think someone should ask if they've lost a credit and don't have a book to compensate for it.  Even "wrong book" transactions, I think there's nothing wrong with asking for your credit back, even though you should still have gotten a postable book out of it.  The difference, IMO, being that you can presume that if someone requests a book as a freebie, they wanted it and had an intended use for it, and wrong books are something you didn't request & don't have a use for.  And I know there are plenty who don't ask for the credit refund even then, as long as they can repost that wrong book:P  I never post my moldy oldies here either, btw.  I donated a huge load of them - even cleared out some from my shelf that were postable, but had been sitting here forever - to my local DAV thrift store last week.  I get a lot of great bargains from there, so it's an added way to help keep them in business & support what they do in my community:)



Last Edited on: 6/25/09 7:57 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/25/2009 8:14 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 36,141
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scuse my ignorance.... OP??

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 8:15 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,916
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OP = Original Poster

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 8:36 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 36,141
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thank you!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                     current deal:

5 paperbacks for 2 credits  (or 2 paperbacks, 1 hardcover) 

Thanks to those who already ordered .  I really appreciate it.

 



Last Edited on: 6/25/09 8:38 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Subject: update
Date Posted: 6/26/2009 8:21 AM ET
Member Since: 5/1/2009
Posts: 6
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I got the credit back, but the sending member also informed me that I shouldn't be expecting shiny new books.   Argued that she got the books from another member here and that that was one other person that thought they were postable.

I just thanked her for the credit and reminded her that the books had to at least follow the guidelines.

Thank you for all of your help.