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Topic: Do you believe in the 10 Commandments?

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Subject: Do you believe in the 10 Commandments?
Date Posted: 3/8/2008 7:01 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
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If you believe in the 10 Commandments do you keep them all or only part of them?  If only part of them which ones and why?

Date Posted: 3/8/2008 9:13 PM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2006
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Actually no - I don't believe in them.   It's amazing to me how many people consider that they should be stuck up in a public place or that our country is founded on them.  I think if you believe in the 10 Commandments then you should also believe in all the other rules the Old Testament lays down.   Those are my 2 cents worth:):):)

 

Date Posted: 3/8/2008 9:36 PM ET
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what if you were shown were they are stated in the New Testament?  Do you believe in the New Testament?  If you don't believe in the Old Testament, why not?

Date Posted: 3/9/2008 7:06 AM ET
Member Since: 10/2/2007
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I believe in four out of 10--I believe murder, lying, stealing, and adultery are wrong. Although I don't think the government should have laws against adultery or, except in extraordinary cases, lying.

Honoring your parents and avoiding envy are nice ideas but fall short of being "commandments."

The other four are just silly.

ETA: And I absolutely, wholeheartedly reject the Biblical punishment for breaking the ten commandments which is, in at least most if not all cases, death.



Last Edited on: 3/9/08 8:12 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/9/2008 9:20 AM ET
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So Bob, you say:  And I absolutely, wholeheartedly reject the Biblical punishment for breaking the ten commandments which is, in at least most if not all cases, death.  Do you not think that when the Lord comes again that those not keeping His commandments will be put to death?

I take it that you believe any of the commandments dealing with God....taking His name in vain, having other gods, bowing down to images of gods...are "just silly!"  And I'm guessing that you think that the 4th commandment of what day to worship on and how to keep that day are silly also?

Date Posted: 3/9/2008 11:44 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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I'm not a Christian, so no, I don't really care about the ten commandments.  Of course I believe that people should not lie, murder, or steal, but who doesn't?  I believe in things that are good for the society as a whole, and that includes treating your fellow man as you would like to be treated....with compassion, kindness, and respect.  Taking names in vain and not making graven images and all that blather?  That has nothing to do with society at all.  That's a Christian idea.  Since the world is not made of *just Christians*, I don't see what the ten commandments have to do with anything outside of the Christian church.  If Joe Blow next door wants to make a statue of himself and bow dow before it ten times a day, that's his business, not mine.

Date Posted: 3/9/2008 12:39 PM ET
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So Bob, you say:  And I absolutely, wholeheartedly reject the Biblical punishment for breaking the ten commandments which is, in at least most if not all cases, death.  Do you not think that when the Lord comes again that those not keeping His commandments will be put to death?

I take it that you believe any of the commandments dealing with God....taking His name in vain, having other gods, bowing down to images of gods...are "just silly!"  And I'm guessing that you think that the 4th commandment of what day to worship on and how to keep that day are silly also?

1) I'm not expecting the lord to come and 2) yes, the commandments dealing with God were exactly the ones I meant were silly.

Date Posted: 3/9/2008 9:46 PM ET
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If you don't believe in God and a Second Coming...what do you believe in, how do you survive this world and all of its evil?

Date Posted: 3/9/2008 10:17 PM ET
Member Since: 10/2/2007
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Christy,

I suspect I go through life much as you do--I enjoy the love of my family and friends, I take delight in beauty, I am awed by what people, both as individuals and as societies, can accomplish.

Today I enjoyed walking by a river watching my two children throw sticks and stones into the water. Later we had a nice meal with a friend. Still later, I read stories to one of my kids at bedtime, while my wife read to the other. Soon, I will relax with my novel before going to sleep because my alarm will be going off all too early tomorrow morning.

But I have every hope and belief that tomorrow will be a good day!  And whatever comes, I'll try and make the best of it.

Sure, sometimes bad stuff happens. To me, personally, or to someone close to me, or even to someone across the world that I hear about in the news. Bad stuff makes me sad or mad or something else and, despite my hopes, not every day turns out to be a good day. Sometimes I find there are things I can do to try and prevent or alleviate the bad stuff, sometimes I just have to accept it as part of life.

But I muddle on, more happy than not.

Are you saying that without your belief in God and a Second Coming that you couldn't survive this world? I hope not, because that seems very sad to me.

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 3/9/2008 10:57 PM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
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Commandments?  No, not as they are written.  I think there are some good ideas therein, but all things are relative.  I think stealing food to feed your family is ok.  I think killing someone who is trying to kill you is ok.  I think lying to save your life is ok.  It's all relative.

If you don't believe in God and a Second Coming...what do you believe in, how do you survive this world and all of its evil?

"Good" and "evil" are relative.  It's all a matter of perspective.  What I think is evil, you may imbrace.  What you think is "good" I may eschew.  It's all a matter of perspective.

I believe that energy changes form, and being that we are beings of energy, we, too, shall change form when we are released from the physical body.  I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, nor do I believe any one belief will "save" a human from any sort of existence.  We just *are*, and the rest are stories that people make up to make themselves feel better about dealing with life's trails and tribulations.  I think the Bible and most other religious texts are a collection of myths (not  "God-insipred"), although there are Universal Truths found in every one of them, that are the same.

 

 

 

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 9:17 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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Bob basically covered everything I could say.  I think we get one life, and this is it.  I want to make the best of it.  What matters to me is my family, and knowing that maybe I have helped someone, somehow, along the way.  I don't think that there is some evil force out there, although there are certainly some people that do heinous things.  I believe that most people are good, and will rise to the occassion when needed.  I have also learned that I can't control the world around me, only myself and my actions.  I just hope that when the end of my life comes, that I can look back, and feel like I have been a good mother, a good wife, a good sister, a good daughter......just a good person in general, who was compassionate and giving.  I take pleasure in knowing that I am part of the earth and nature, which is so beautiful, and that one day I will return to it.  I came from nature, and I am part of it's cycle.  Do I look forward to dying?  No, but I'm only going to do it once.  Right now, I'm alive and trying to make all my days count.

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 12:29 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2006
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No, not me...I agree with some of them of course..but some of them are silly...The book 'Letter to a Christian Nation' by Sam Harris sums up my thoughts on the the commandments quite nicely in one of the chapters...

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 1:07 PM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2006
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I didn't realize the 10 Commandments were in the New Testament.  And no - I don't believe in the New Testament either, meaning that I don't care anything about the Bible at all, other than as a work of literature.  The others have summed up my feelings very well.  I can be a good person and not believe in killing or lying or stealing without being religious.  But as L said, if a lie will save my or someone else's life or I had to steal to eat - then I'm okay with it.  Everything is relative.  I basically believe the Wiccan phrase that goes something like this, I think:  "If it harm no one, do as you wish."

 

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 3:24 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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I agree with what L is saying too....an action has to be considered by it's context.  I wouldn't hesitate to steal food for my children if they were genuinely hungry and we didn't have money and no way to get food.  It would be nice if we lived in a society where no one had to go hungry to start with though.....

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 10:40 PM ET
Member Since: 2/27/2008
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As nice and happy as these theories of relative goodness and evilness sound on the surface, the logic breaks down once you dig a little deeper.  Should a judge condemn one murderer who believes he is evil AND grant another murderer who has no bad concience complete freedom?  Or maybe it depends on how the judge defines goodness and evilness - maybe he would condemn the victim of an attempted rape for not letting the rapist do what he thinks is right!  This is completely contradictory, and no society could exist under such chaos.  Yet it is exactly what follows from this crazy notion that good and evil are relative and we determine what that means in our own minds. 

The reality is that good is good, and evil is evil, whether you believe in God or not.  The Christian God is perfectly good, by definition.  Therefore his 10 commandments will logically all follow in the path of virtue.  Some of you hate the idea of religion so much that you respond with mockery when reading the phrase 'ten commandments' without ever trying to understand their meaning.  What a display of ignorance!

The only way a society could exist where no one goes hungry is by accepting common rules, namely "Feed the hungry" or "Give to those in need" or "Love your enemies".  Who else said something about that?

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 9:25 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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Should a judge condemn one murderer who believes he is evil AND grant another murderer who has no bad concience complete freedom?  Or maybe it depends on how the judge defines goodness and evilness - maybe he would condemn the victim of an attempted rape for not letting the rapist do what he thinks is right!

If you know anything about the law, then you know that legal preceding are based on individual cases and on previous precedents.  A judge is not appointed to sit and decide who is "good or evil", and that's not what they do.  The world we live in, the real world, is not as black and white as the bible tries to make it out to be, where if a person even thinks a bad thought, then it's as good as doing it, and they should be stoned to death.  That is a "crazy notion".  So far, the only mockery I have seen thus far is in your post.  I hardly think looking at people as individuals leads to chaos.....it's usual people that use their religion to assault other people with their self-righteous attitude and hatred that causes chaos.  The more accepting and tolerant people can be counted on to be rational, logical, and instrumental in creating a society for all people that works, and one that certainly has less war.  The Bible does not contain "common rules", it contains Christian ones.  While I realize that most Christians would like nothing more than for the whole world to become Christian too, that is not going to happen.  I am sure that MANY other religions have "rules" about giving to those in need as well....Buddhists, Wiccans, etc.  Christians are not the only ones who actually give a darn about people, although there are many who like to think that is the case.  Alas, it's just not true.  To those who think it is, I must reiterate your statement:

What a display of ignorance!

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 9:35 AM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2006
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The Christian God is perfectly good, by definition. 

I must disagree with this statement.  I wouldn't call some of the things the Christian God does in the Old Testament as perfectly good.  I also don't believe that anyone here has said they are anti-religion.  Most of us just want religion to remain what it is - a personal belief system and not see it intrude into government/public affairs.

 

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 10:57 AM ET
Member Since: 2/27/2008
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legal preceding are based on individual cases and on previous precedents.

Sure, in the USA  at least ... but where did those precedents come from?  You'll trace it back to an absolute definiton of something good or bad, independent of your beliefs.  Morality exists outside of God or religon.

My point is that regardless of one's faith, the ideas or "rules" referenced in the Bible are good.  Though the laws In the Bible are viewed as black and white [and strict, relative to our zeitgeist], in truth the Bible is quite grey  with stories about ugly people doing ugly things unpunished, and then we say these people are godly.  Even Jesus, the only perfectly good person recorded in the text, hung out with prostitutes and dishonest tax men.  Hardly the picture of piety, if you ask me.  In fact, he despised the self-righteous, religous people, for the very fact that they did use their rules to control everyone.

The ignorance of which I speak stems from the fact that some people think fo the Bible as a "rule book" only, which is a gross oversimplification.  The self-righteous, religous people are just as guilty of this as the new age crowd.  The only difference is that the former embraces these rules while the latter reject them.  Whatever, both groups missed the point. 



Last Edited on: 3/11/08 11:08 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 11:05 AM ET
Member Since: 2/27/2008
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I wouldn't call some of the things the Christian God does in the Old Testament as perfectly good.

"If God is Love, He is, by definition, something more than mere kindness." (Lewis)

It's illogical to think that perfection and imperfection can coexist in one being. 

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 2:46 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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The question remains though:  Why should a non-Christian care about the rules of the Bible?  Because as a non-Christian, those rules do not apply to me and many others.

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 3:59 PM ET
Member Since: 2/27/2008
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If we put all spiritual notions aside for a moment, the Bible would be an excellent and complete resource for the guidelines of morality for a  non-Christian who desired to be a good person in society.  That's not to say it's the only resource with this merit, but it is sufficient.  Many non-Christians agree that Jesus was an excellent role model.

The only commandments such a person might have an issue with would be the personal ones related honoring God before anything else.  The simple solution for the relatavistic thinker is to define your God as whatever you do worship...your children, significant other, career, or money for example.  We all worship [read: put first in our lives] something, after all.  This way, whenever one sees the word "God", instead of getting offended, they just relate it back to their own god.  In the end, we would have a perfect society this way.  Even though we all have personal differences, since we follow the rule "Treat your neighbor as yourself", you don't hate him or her because they have different personal beliefs than you, as Heloise suggested.

The caveat here is that when you die, all of this turns out to be "relatively" meaningless.  Congratulations on trying your best to be a good person, but nobody's actually perfect.  On our own merit, we all fail.  This is when we realize that the only thing that actually mattered were the personal beliefs, the ones where everyone's free to disagree on since they have no outer bearing on our social interactions.  I have found that honoring anything before God leads, ultimately, to feeling unfulfilled in life.

Other implications do exist if you belive in an afterlife - meaning, you continue to exist after your body passes away.  We'll save that for another time. 



Last Edited on: 3/11/08 4:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 7:10 PM ET
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I definitley agree that no one is perfect, but I also think as a guide book to life, the Bible really falls short in so many areas.  While it does contain many good messages, and I enjoy many of Jesus' parables, it is also used again and again to supress women and keep homosexuals from being given civil rights.  It was previously used to promote the killing of witches, and to allow people to keep slaves.  There are so many other texts, even modern day ones, that can help people be better members of society and happier, more fulfilled people, than the Bible can.  Although, if the Bible works for you (general you), then great. 

I have to disagree that when I die, or when any of us die, that what we have done is meaningless, relatively or otherwise.  I believe we inspire, encourage, and teach each generation.  Failure in itself is relative.  If you are reaching for perfection, then yes, you will fail.  But if you hope to make a difference in someone's life and accomplish that, then how have you failed?  I get fulfillment in so many ways, and most of them are quite simple, like sitting on the beach and watching the waves or helping students with their reading for half an hour every morning.    I can think of so many people who were in my life that are now gone, and regardless of what they may have believed or not believed spiritually, they have touched my life and shaped who I am, and their legacy lives on through me.  To me, that is what life is about.

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 9:12 PM ET
Member Since: 2/27/2008
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Good input there.  It is always unfortunate that people twist the text in the bible to suit their own needs and attack certain groups.  The text does condemn certain actions, but never people.  One also must consider the cultural setting of the time period.  If the argument made is not one of love, then that's the red flag that someone is misusing it. 

While I can understand and agree with the notion of affecting others in positive ways in our short lives, I think there exists an even greater purpose or meaning to it all.  There is an argument for the existence of an eternal soul, but I won't discuss such heady stuff here. 

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 11:56 PM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
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Jefferey wrote: As nice and happy as these theories of relative goodness and evilness sound on the surface, the logic breaks down once you dig a little deeper.  Should a judge condemn one murderer who believes he is evil AND grant another murderer who has no bad concience complete freedom?

What the judge does now depends mainly on how light-skinned and how much money the accused has.

Don't try to pretend our judicial system even hints at being fair.

That's immaterial though.  We are discussing morals, not law.

 

 

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 7:50 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2007
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I also disagree with the idea of relative morality.  Some societies think its perfectly fine, even commendable to mutilate the genitals of young girls.  Does that make it ok for them and not ok for others?  No.  Some things are just wrong.  Obviously life is complicated and no two situations are the same.  Self-defense and stealing to feed ones family are definitely extenuating situations, but that doesn't equate to all good or evil being relative.

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