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Topic: I'm a bit confused

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Subject: I'm a bit confused
Date Posted: 7/14/2009 9:33 PM ET
Member Since: 6/9/2009
Posts: 8
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I got a request for one of my books but I'm not sure what the person is asking, The cover is intact but there is a book stamp in the inside from where it was bought used the book is very old been in my collection for over 20 years I somehow ended up with duplicates how to I resond to the person requesting the book??

The member who has requested A Time of Ghosts (Raven, No 2) has put the following conditions on this request:

When requesting hardcover books, I will only accept hardcover books with dust jackets (covers). Also, would like paperback books with covers intact.

 

A Time of Ghosts (Raven, No 2):
(My book will be returned back into the library at its previous position in the FIFO list.)
Date Posted: 7/14/2009 9:39 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,201
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Is your book a Hard Cover? Then you need to have a dust jacket with it.

Is it a paperback? Then the book just needs to meet the site swapability requirements because a book cover must be intact with no separation in order to be posted here.

Since your book meets site requirements (I assume since you posted it) and there is nothing in their Requester Conditions about stamps (and those are postable) your book would be fine to send.

Requester Conditions are often written generally to cover all the books someone orders so often times they are not targeted specifically to the book you are sending. That can sometimes be confusing. If there is nothing in there that applies to your book, then you meet all of their Requester Conditions and you can be comfortable accepting the request.

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 9:40 PM ET
Member Since: 11/30/2007
Posts: 4,984
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Since your book's covers are intact, I don't see any reason why you can't accept her request.

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 9:40 PM ET
Member Since: 2/1/2008
Posts: 3,479
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Shandi,

If your book is paperback and the cover is intact, I'd say you're good to go with accepting the order.  If your book is hardcover and has the dust jacket, same goes.  There is no mention of store stamps in the RC so it should be no problem to accept.

If you have a hardcover book with no dust jacket or a paperback book with a torn cover, don't send the book.  Just click that it does not meet the conditions.

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 9:46 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2009
Posts: 2,016
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  • Cover not torn or chewed/gnawed
    • some used book stores cut out a small part of the cover; if the amount missing is less than 1 square inch, this is OKAY
    • a small rip (less than 1 inch) in the cover is OKAY
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed" above.  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.

I agree with what others said -- if your book is a hardcover, must have DJ, if paperback and intact your are fine to accept. 

Sometimes people just list everything the don't want in their RCs, and they don't all apply to your book. Or perhaps they were being slightly more picky -- not wanting less than 1 inch rips, partly cut corners, which are considered postable.

just out of curiosity, how do you all feel about such generic RCs (as opposed to making an RC apply to the specific binding)?

Subject: I was reading
Date Posted: 7/15/2009 2:13 PM ET
Member Since: 6/9/2009
Posts: 8
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I see alot of people complaining about the condition of thier books recived....maybe I am less picky but it's a free book rght? we are trading books not selling books. I got one from here with the cover taped on. Still readable. Just wondering why some traders seem more concerned with wanting a perfect book. Used book are a hit or miss as far as I'm concerned. As long as I can read it I'm good :)

Date Posted: 7/15/2009 2:31 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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It's not free. We have to mail a book or buy a credit in order to get a book through this site, at a cost of anwhere from $1.50 to $3.50 (sometimes more, if the book is larger). We get two courtesy credits for free when we post our first 10 books, but even then those are not really free, because we are expected to mail out the books we posted when we get an order for them.

The site has guidelines that must be met. If the cover was taped on to your book, you should have marked RWAP, because it was unpostable. Would you spend $3.45 to buy a book with a taped-on cover at the UBS? I wouldn't, and I would expect people here to follow the rules. The rules here are "in good condition and not excessively worn", with detailed guidelines for that that means.

If you re-post the book with the taped-on cover, be ready to refund the credit whenthe recipient asks. It does not meet site guidelines. But in all truth, you realy can't re-post it at all. You can try the book bazaar unpostables thread if you want to garner interest, or offer it free with an order.



Last Edited on: 7/15/09 2:32 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/15/2009 3:53 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Even though I agree with everything that Jane said - others take the view that you, Shandi, do - that it's a "free" book.  No matter how you view the "value" of the book, the condition is very important and if members don't follow the postability condition guidelines there is no way to keep the quality of the books here as high as we would like.   To make your time here successful it would be best if you followed the guidelines and made sure that any books you receive also meet those conditions.  If they don't, please mark them as RWAP because that is the way we have quality control.  People who send out the books that don't meet the conditions frequently use the excuse "I received it here like this" and that is exactly why we can't allow books to go unmarked when they need to be.  It isn't a valid excuse.  When you receive an unpostable mark it as RWAP and request to have your credit returned.  I hope you get lots of high quality books in the future.

Ruth

Date Posted: 7/15/2009 4:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Ruth said it much better than I did. I guess I didn't have enough caffeine this morning!

Date Posted: 7/15/2009 4:08 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Jane, your post was just fine!  Don't think it wasn't.  I really take everything you post to heart and respect your knowledge and experience.

Ruth



Last Edited on: 7/15/09 4:09 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Mis understanding
Date Posted: 7/15/2009 4:55 PM ET
Member Since: 6/9/2009
Posts: 8
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I love my books all of my books are in excelllant condition. I'd never offer one up for trade that wasn't. I had no idea that if I got one taped like I did I could refuse it. I have gotten two books so far and had three no responses. I've sent out two or three...have to check and had no complaints.

I think I'm just a different breed. I've never been real picky about apperances as long as it's sound and clean I'm okay with a not perfect book. So tell me what to look for when I got through my books. What's not acceptable?

is there a list on site to check when I am ready to list, for flaws and such?

"The site has guidelines that must be met. If the cover was taped on to your book, you should have marked RWAP, because it was unpostable. Would you spend $3.45 to buy a book with a taped-on cover at the UBS? I wouldn't, and I would expect people here to follow the rules. The rules here are "in good condition and not excessively worn", with detailed guidelines for that that means."

I actually have paid 3.50 and up for used books not in great shape, one I'm missing or one I really want to read. I was just wondering what is expected when books are posted and picked, you did a great job explaining it. Thanks.

I thought this site was perfect for me since I live in the boonies and a trip to the book store or the library is a major undertaking, so far not really any thing to complain about. Was just curious about the condition expected of used books.

Date Posted: 7/15/2009 6:59 PM ET
Member Since: 10/14/2005
Posts: 333
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Shandi - check out this page for the posting guidelines: http://www.paperbackswap.com/help/help_item.php?id=205
Date Posted: 7/15/2009 8:58 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Shandi, I live in the boonies, too.  And this site has been a godsend for me.  The only UBS I could ever go to had requirements much like PBS so it's not so different for me.  I think it's great that we can expect to receive books in really good shape and hopefully send them out again.  Not all books have the life left in them to be reposted, but the majority do.

Sorry that I didn't realize I should have given you a link to the guidelines.  Thank you, Ronda, for doing that.

Ruth



Last Edited on: 7/15/09 11:59 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/15/2009 9:14 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I'm not overly picky about the books I read either.  If it wasn't for the posting guidelines it wouldn't bother me to receive a book with a taped cover or some spine damage.  (although I don't care for stained books-ick).  I don't care about dog earred pages, highlighting, writing, stickers etc.., But since PBS has the posting guidelines and I repost every book that I can within the guidelines-I mark unpostable books as RWP even though I don't always ask for my credit back.  It's the only way to get the habitually bad senders out of PBS and it doesn't harm someone who normally sends out good books.  If a book is borderline then I will just accept that it's ending it's PBS life with me.

Shandi when you post a book you have to agree to the book posting guidelines-it'll tell you that books can't be water damaged, have seperated spines, writing or stains etc.., It's also listed in the Help Center.

Date Posted: 7/15/2009 9:26 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2009
Posts: 8,597
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So if you mark a book RWAP but don't ask for your credit, what would constitute "resolution" for the purposes of marking the transaction resolved?  A polite email exchange?  An apology?  Just curious.

Date Posted: 7/15/2009 10:37 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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It's really your discretion, but if I don't ask for a credit back, I usually just mark it resolved. Though I suppose I should wait for an acknowledgement of my message. You're not required to go back and change the status. It can just be left open, I think.

Date Posted: 7/16/2009 3:59 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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What Melanie said.

As Ruth notes, it is important to mark unpostables as RWAP.  PBS members are a large and diverse group, and like all forms of trade and commerce an agreed upon 'standard' is required for fair and friendly relations.  PBS has set the 'standard' minimum requirements and members need to use that same standard, whether or not they personally find a different standard acceptable.  It's late, so I hope that makes sense :-)

It's not necessary to ask for your credit to be returned for RWAP books.  I recently received a junior biography with lots of underlining on text pages.  Which made it unpostable unless I had been notified, made aware of the book condition, and approved the transaction...which I hadn't.  The sender was a new member, hadn't seen all the postable details yet, and was apologetic and very nice.  I didn't ask for a credit, gave her some helpful pointers, and marked the situation resolved. 

Date Posted: 7/16/2009 11:24 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 10/22/09 12:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/16/2009 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,956
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When I joined 6 months ago, I read quite a bit in the forums before I joined. That is how I knew the site even had rules.

I find the help docs badly organized and I think it's hard to find info in them, unless you already know its in there. (and I have worked in the computer software industry for over 15 years, so I don't think the problem is on MY end).

Just calling them "Help Docs" is a problem ... because most people who use the internet frequently are conditioned to look at  "Help Docs" when they are having some kind of TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY with the site ... like you click on a button and it doesn't work, or something.

I use all kinds of internet sites without EVER having to go look at "Help Docs".

I think they should rename that whole tab "How to Use PBS" or something like that that makes it clear ... that people need to go look there right away.

I know that to some people this might seem really picky, but I also do some work with Web page usability testing (Yes, this is a whole industry) ... and you would be surprised at how very small changes in the naming of things OR the positioning of them on a page can make a HUGE difference in how easy a web site is to use.

I do want to add that I think the help docs are WELL WRITTEN, when you can actually find them. I just think they are extremely hard to find. And, some of them are only findable by searching ... you can't navigate to them.



Last Edited on: 7/16/09 11:45 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/16/2009 12:26 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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When you post a book it brings up a pop up and you have to agree to that popup that says "this book meets PBS guidelines and does not have loose or missing pages, water damage stains etc..,"   I don't remember the exact wording but you have to click "yes my book meets these guideliens". So it's right there.  Which is why I don't get it when people reinstate the guidelines in their RCS. If someone is going to ignore the warning from PBS are they really going to pay attention to your RC's?

I had no trouble finding the guidelines when I first joined. Before I signed up I read the Help section to see what I was getting into before I committed. It's not hard.

And I am not directing this at anyone in particular I'm just saying I found the information easily when I first joined.  It's not hidden. If you just hover over Help Center it brings up a menu of "how do I trade Books here" and other options. 

Date Posted: 7/16/2009 12:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 10/22/09 12:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/16/2009 2:11 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,956
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I'm going to give a concrete example of the bad organization and "hard-to-findness".

Let's say I'm a new member and I click on "Help Docs -> How to Swap Books". Then I click on "text-version' because I don't want to see a video.

So, I get a page of information. The VERY FIRST bullet has a link to the phrase "good condition". If you hover over this phrase you get a pop up that describes a few of the book conditions and then has a footnote that says "See "Book Condition Guidelines" for additional information.

However, the footnote is NOT a link. And, NONE of the  "Related Links" at the bottom of the page (and there are about 20 of them) are to the "Book Condition Guidelines". The only way to get to the Book Condition Guidelines is to stop reading the page that you are reading (introductory info) and do a search for "Book Condition Guidelines" and then go to that completely separate page to see them.

The BCG should be linked FROM THAT PAGE. You shouldn't have to search for it to go there. Looking for that link (either at the end of the bullet point OR at the bottom of the page) is the "natural, intuitive" thing to do. Having to stop what you are already reading to make notes about things you have to search for later is not "easy to find".

This is just one example of "hard-to-use". I can list tons more.

Web page usability is a thing that people study in school. I don't have a degree in it or anything, but I have learned it on the job. Its not just an opinion, there are scientific studies done to evaluate how people interact with web sites. If the "typical user" of a web site can't find the thing they are looking for within a certain number of clicks they will just give up. This is a fact. Some highly motivated people will keep going but that is a small percentage of users.

PBS has done a fantastic job with most of the interfaces .. ordering a book, the "My Account" page, etc. These are all fabuous and VERY easy and intuitive to use. The help docs are not.

I know its just my opinion, but the reason that I state it so strongly is because I would like to see them improved, so that new members can figure things out easier. 

Date Posted: 7/16/2009 3:42 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I don't know I had no trouble finding the posting guidelines and info when I first joined. Maybe they could make the pop-up book guidelines that you have to agree to when posting a book a little more defined.  But there will always be people who send otu bad books. The only way to truly eliminate the bad senders would be to charge a yearly fee that would give PBS the funds to refund more credits. Or to not give the credit to the sender when a book is marked RWP. But then there's be people who marked good books as RWP to get their credit back. And with the yearly fee there would be people who just couldn't afford it or didn't feel they used PBS enough to pay for it. 

I don't see what else they could do.  I mean people alreayd ignore the pop up where they have to click "yes my book meets these requirements" are they going to pay attention to anything else?

Date Posted: 7/16/2009 6:02 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 10/22/09 12:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/17/2009 5:37 PM ET
Member Since: 4/13/2009
Posts: 285
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The pop ups also don't solve the "RWAP" issue.    It wasn't clear to me until I started reading the forums that it's expected that you mark books "RWAP" even if you personally don't have "AP."   If the site really wants people to do that, they should change the "received" options to include something like "Received in good condition" and "Received, but does not meet PBS posting guidelines" (or something like that).  Otherwise, easy-going people would tend to just click "Received."   And once that happens, it's not a big leap to assume that if it was okay to send to you, it's okay to send to someone else, even if it doesn't meet the letter of the law.   After all, there are plenty of examples of where the "posted" rules don't match the "real" rules (e.g., speed limits).

Please note that I'm NOT endorsing this behavior, but I can also see how a perfectly reasonable person could end up there, and then become irritated when they get chastised for it.

 

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