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Topic: If your book didn't match the binding listed on the description, would you

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Subject: If your book didn't match the binding listed on the description, would you
Date Posted: 10/9/2007 3:39 PM ET
Member Since: 7/5/2006
Posts: 4,669
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I just got a book that has a library binding (the hardback like binding, with the glossy cover), the ISBN matches the lsiting BUT the listing also says "paperback". 

Since this was sent to my son, I can't mark it receieved with a problem, and I just wanted the book and didn't care about the binding... so my receiving it isn't my question....

my question is... should it have been listed under that ISBN?  I know from bookselling that lots of time paperbacks are put in library binding, but the ISBN is not changed (at least with older books, now there usually is a seperate ISBN)  .... it's just a "hmmmmm" for me...

Date Posted: 10/9/2007 3:40 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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I would probably list the book as if it didn't have an ISBN to be on the safe side

Date Posted: 10/9/2007 3:44 PM ET
Member Since: 9/19/2006
Posts: 2,940
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If the binding type does not match the book has to be posted without an ISBN.  If you send a hardback to someone and the listing says paperback they can ask for their credit back since they were sent the wrong book.  Author, title and book type must match. 

Date Posted: 10/9/2007 3:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,178
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I would PM the sender and point out that they cannot post a book by the ISBN unless the book Title, ISBN, Author and book type (meaning binding) match. If it does not it is clear in the instructions when posting that the book must be posted without an ISBN. Per the help, your credit should be returned to you.

Date Posted: 10/9/2007 4:05 PM ET
Member Since: 7/5/2006
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Thanks!  I did just ask for my credit back, cause I just also noticed some water stains on the front few pages. 

It's the first time I've asked for a credit,and I feel like a heel :( 

Date Posted: 10/9/2007 4:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Don't feel like a heel! The person broke the rules, and by PBS rules, you're entitled to request your credit back.

Date Posted: 10/9/2007 11:35 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2007
Posts: 369
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Last Edited on: 9/18/13 1:44 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 12:08 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,178
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I just wanted to point out the error in this logic for people who think it is OK to post a book that differs from the system:  

“First, a hardcover tends to have a higher value than a paperback and a better survival rate, so you've gotten a better book”            

This is completely a personal preference thing and not a universal given. Some people just cannot/do not use hardcovers because they are too heavy/too big etc. I order certain bindings for different things. Paperback books are for when I read in bed or take with me in my purse/briefcase. A hardcover DOES NOT WORK for me in either situation and would be of zero value to me.  

“Last, tons of PBS's database info is just wrong, so I (just me!) would overlook it on the matching ISBN.”            

I agree, the system is wrong on some ISBNs. That does not mean that you should just post the book by the ISBN. What is in the system (wrong or not) is not what you have and you should not post anything other than what you have.  

  I am pretty open on what I receive, but this is one thing that would get me very mad, receiving the wrong binding when it is very obvious to the person posting the book that they are not posting it correctly.



Last Edited on: 10/10/07 12:09 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 1:33 AM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2007
Posts: 369
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Last Edited on: 9/18/13 2:08 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 2:03 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,178
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I agree that the best thing here is always assume no harmful intent ... maybe no assuming would be better ;)

RE your last point - I am pretty sure I have read somewhere that R&R will not accept a change to the binding for this exact reason.

I agree that sometimes oversight that causes this problem. I do believe that it is very easily seen, at multiple steps, and more often than not, the person is well aware that the book doesn't match the system, but they either don't care, don't understand what to do, don't want to go through all the work to post it correctly. None of which are acceptable reasons to me for not doing it correctly. There are always kind helpers around here.

Most times people won't care, but I don't believe that anyone should feel guilty or be told it is unfair for them to ask for a credit back when they receive something that does not match what they order. This is my one issue with the PBS system, I do not think that a sender should get a credit for sending the wrong book. If that were the case, I think the wrong binding issue would almost disappear.

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 2:27 AM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2007
Posts: 831
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The only time that a change to the binding type in a listing is even considered is when the binding type listed was never used under that ISBN.  Having said that, you have to back up your request for a change with considerable research.  This type of change is rarely done.

My opinion:  in most cases, if I requested a paperback and got a hardback, I would be unhappy.  I would not assume that the person did it deliberatly.  However, many people do do it deliberately, and then think that a remark in their review somehow fixes things instead of compounding the error.

Bast -
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 3:11 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2006
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No. The book should not have been listed under that ISBN. It should have been posted without ISBN, as the binding does not match.

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 11:05 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,633
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I agree that no one should post a hardcover if the listing says paperback, or vice versa.

However, if the listing says library binding, a lot of people aren't going to know what that means, so they can't really be faulted for it. Plus, sometimes a library will take a paperback book and rebind it as a hardcover to protect it. In which case, you would have gotten the right book, but the new binding makes it look like you got the wrong book. Unfortunately, only someone who has worked in a library or possibly in publishing is likely to be aware of this.

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 1:14 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2006
Posts: 353
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"However, if the listing says library binding, a lot of people aren't going to know what that means, so they can't really be faulted for it."

Sure they can. When you're posting books, the directions are quite clear and direct - the binding must match. The word "Library" doesn't even come close to looking like "Paperback" or "Hardcover". They may not know what it means, but they can certainly see if it matches or not.

Really, it boils down to people not following the directions, whether they just make an honest mistake (don't read everything they should, etc), or think they can slip by and it won't really matter. Both are certainly faults though - there is really no wiggle room or plausible deniability here. What is an appropriate response is a little more subjective however...

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 2:03 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2007
Posts: 35
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Ack!  Please make sure your books match the binding listed.  I am not even sure why this is up for debate. When I order books I specifically look for the binding I want.  Often times I wait forever on the wishlist to get the particular binding and won't be happy if I get the wrong one.  I still get people who send the wrong binding and then respond with "I am sure you can still enjoy it. Bye."  That isn't the point at all.  PBS gives us the option to request certain bindings and until they do away with that people need to make sure they post their books correctly - as the rules say.  I've ended up adding a "condition" that asks people to check one more time that the book they are sending me matches the binding it was listed under.  I have the worst luck with people sending the wrong binding.  I've even had a "I don't  even know what a library binding is".  Either look it up or assume that since it says library binding and not, oh, paperback, that your paperback isn't a match.



Last Edited on: 10/10/07 2:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 2:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,308
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I am pretty sure I have read somewhere that R&R will not accept a change to the binding for this exact reason.

You're right, Melanie.  When we edit a book, the binding is one of the things we can't change.  We could send in feedback, but to change a binding there has to be proof that the ISBN was never used for the listed binding, and that the listed binding is 100% wrong.  Basically, it almost never happens.  And the reason is to avoid the problem Anna mentioned, where someone lists a book as a paperback, and then the listing changes to hardback without her knowing it.

Publishers, unfortunately, reuse ISBN's for more than one binding (and even more than one title sometimes!)  In those cases, the first book listed here becomes the official PBS book for that ISBN.  All others have to be listed as if they had no ISBN. 

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 2:26 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Sure they can. When you're posting books, the directions are quite clear and direct - the binding must match. The word "Library" doesn't even come close to looking like "Paperback" or "Hardcover". They may not know what it means, but they can certainly see if it matches or not.

OK... So what, exactly, is a library binding? Is it hardcover? Paperback? Reinforced paperback? Could it be either? Does it actually say "Library Binding" on the cover? I ask this as an honest question. Looking at the Wikipedia description, it appears that it could be either form. (Though most of them appear to be hardback.) I think that it could be difficult to ensure which type of binding (hardcover or softcover) I'd receive if I requested a library binding book.

ETA: Now, for the OP, the requested book was listed as a PAPERBACK, which is different from requesting a "Library Binding", and the received book was a hardback, so the OP is still entitled to ask for a refund of the credit. But what if the listing had said "Library Binding" and she received a reinforced paperback? What if she thought it would have been a hardback?



Last Edited on: 10/10/07 2:36 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 3:01 PM ET
Member Since: 5/17/2007
Posts: 3,129
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I can certainly tell the difference between a hardcover and a paperback, but count me among the confused regarding library binding.  I even posed the question as a topic but didn't get a satisfactory answer.  Checked on Wikipedia too.  How different IS a library binding from a hardcover, anyway?  Hopefully I won't ever make someone mad by my ignorance of library binding. 



Last Edited on: 10/10/07 3:02 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 3:36 PM ET
Member Since: 1/31/2006
Posts: 1,402
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I'd just like to add that if the book is an ex-library book then the binding is not incorrect.  Yes, some books do come from the publisher and are sold as Library Binding.  That  should be posted as a different binding type.  However, you could request a PB and legitimately get a library bound book.  I have a few ex-library books on my shelf that are paperbacks that have been "reinforced" at the library and now have one of the varying types of library binding.  They still get posted as paperbacks.  Because  that's what they are.  The exact same PB you would buy in the store.  No where does it say that ex-library books must be entered without ISBNs.  This is one of the reasons why some people have a "No ex-library books" condition. 

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 4:07 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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I also am not clear on what exactly a Library Binding is, and the forum posts here haven't made it any clearer.  I am also not sure what a Turtleback Binding is, and I have received a book with a Turtleback Binding, according to the PBS description.  Even having one, I still don't know what it is.  I tried Googling the term, but had absolutely no luck finding a definition that clearly explains how these bindings are different from Paperback and Hardback bindings.

Someone with knowledge, please come to my rescue?

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 5:17 PM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2007
Posts: 5,448
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I received a book advertised as a hardcover but came as a paperback. I wanted the book for our school library and need it to be a hardcover. I explained to the sender that I wanted my credit back so I could get the hardcover I originally wanted. I know I will never get my credit back. This has happened before. I wish there was a way to get your credit back when people don't send the right book. My question is am I responsible to pay the postage to ship their wrong book back to them? This just doesn't make sense to me because I feel I would be footing the bill for their mistake!

For people who want to know what a turtleback is:

It's a book that is bound for heavy use. Usually for classrooms or a school library. It never has a dustcover. The cover has the same bright colorful images as the paperback. Here is one company that makes turtlebacks

www.perma-bound.com or www.everbind.com

 



Last Edited on: 10/10/07 5:41 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 5:26 PM ET
Member Since: 1/31/2006
Posts: 1,402
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My question is am I responsible to pay the postage to ship their wrong book back to them?

No, you don't even have to send it back to them.  If they want the book returned, just politely ask them to send you the postage.

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 7:59 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2007
Posts: 35
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This site below shows some images of Library binding and Turtleback.  I guess the easiest way to knowing what a library binding is would be to look in the library though.  :) 

http://www.series-books.com/nancydrew/minstrela.html

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 10/10/2007 10:10 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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hehe  I live in libraries!!!  I figure that a library binding is like a hardcover with a clear plastic laminate type coating instead of paper dustjacket if I just go by what is in local library, but I didn't know if that was the official "library binding" 

And like I said, I've received a Turtleback book and to me it is a book with a plastic cover, instead of paper or hardcover.  I guess that is what is meant by perma-bound or everbind terms listed by Carol K.

So, thanks to all, I have self-definitions of those terms, even if they aren't official.  =)

Date Posted: 10/10/2007 11:31 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,178
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Rebound/reinforced by a library does not equal "library binding" as far as I know so having ex-library books listed as paperback and hardcover will be correct. Library binding is binding made specifically to withstand hard use. Any time I have held one in my hand it was obvious it was not a normal HC or paperback. I think it was more common in the past and most newer books I see are regular HC and PB reinforced or protected by the library. I see the heavier binding a little more in children's and young adults yet. I don't think the problem happens when someone orders a book listed as one the odd bindings like library, and gets a normal backed book; its when the obvious ones are messed up.