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Topic: book-for-book swaps

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Subject: book-for-book swaps
Date Posted: 3/26/2008 1:13 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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I keep seeing people asking for specific books for which they'll swap their specific books... I have an idea this is against the rules unless you're a Boxer, but I can't find the info in the help docs.

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 1:17 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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I've seen the same thing recently (and probably in the same forum as you, Willa).  Here's the HC stuff on Boxing- note the bold print at the end:

Box-O-Books lets you ship books for less money, and no credits are needed.

Why use Box-O-Books?

  • It saves you money!  Sending multiple books in one shipment costs much less in postage than sending single-book shipments.
  • It saves you credits!  When you don't have any credits, you can still get books!
  • This service is especially useful to new members; they can swap whole boxes of books with other Boxers, thereby replenishing their library while waiting for their newly Posted books to be requested and earn them credits.
  • Box-O-Books is the only way that PBS members are permitted to swap "books-for-books" without using credits.
Date Posted: 3/26/2008 1:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,308
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You're right, Willa.  The Help Doc is called

"Can we swap books for books directly with other members on this site?"

I'll quote from it here:

Yes, but only if you both subscribe to Box-O-Books.

  • "Creditless" swaps are permitted ONLY between two Boxers.
  • Using the PBS site to conduct an under-the-table book-for-book swap without using credits would be in direct violation of PBS policy, and would put both members' PBS accounts in jeopardy.

Why is this?

  • We have worked very hard on this site, and it has cost us (and continues to cost us) a great deal of money. The Box-O-Books service is one of the few sources of income the site has generated to offset our financial losses, and we are still deeply in the red. Without some financial support we will not be able to continue the club. We are trying to keep the site free for our members, and Box-O-Books was one innovation intended to help us do so.
  • PBS relies greatly on the "honor" system among our members. We are pleased to say that the majority of PBSers are honest and above-board; if that were not so, the club could not continue.
  • We hope that the rule makes sense to you, and that you understand that we are not being unfair or greedy. It is simply that if enough members did this, we would have to close down the club.


Last Edited on: 3/26/08 1:19 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/26/2008 1:44 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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You should report members who make such postings on the forums. Copy the URL of the thread and then use "Contact Us" to report the thread to R&R. It is a clear violation of the rules.

ETA: To clarify, it's a violation if the post is looking to trade without using credits. Posting directly to another person's WL is allowed.



Last Edited on: 3/26/08 2:19 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/26/2008 2:08 PM ET
Member Since: 11/13/2005
Posts: 510
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Why do you say it is a clear violation of the rules?  As long as the transfer is done using credits (each party posts their book to the other's wishlist, or requests it directly off the other's shelf), it wouldn't seem to be a violation (at least not of the quoted rules above).

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 2:18 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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You're right, Bret. It's a violation of the rules if someone wants to do it without credits. I'll update my previous post.

ETA:

Personally, I don't understand why someone would do this. There is no guarantee that the other person would meet his/her end of the bargain in either case, KWIM?



Last Edited on: 3/26/08 2:20 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/26/2008 2:19 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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Bret, what we're talking about is not swapping for credits, but swapping books directly for other books.  There is a post today in a forum that I frequent where someone said they are looking for X, Y and Z books and will do an even swap ONLY for A, B and C books.  I doubt that this person is knowingly doing anything wrong, but the way they have chosen to phrase their offer is against the rules.

I have actually had a couple of people offer me similar scenarios, and what I have done is suggest that we each order 1 book from each other and include the rest as freebies.  It accomplishes the same goal, but within the club rules.

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 2:26 PM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2008
Posts: 7,199
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maybe instead of reporting them you should send them a pm telling them that its against the rules - i know i made a mistake with a post and i had 2 people pm with it and i wasn't even thinking about it being wrong - but, i was grateful for the news - i would hate to see anyone have their account in jeopardy for something that didn't even think about ??

 

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 2:34 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Wende, that certainly is an option. But keep in mind that not all members will be nice about having been informed of the rules. I think that the decision is a personal one, overall. If it's a newer member, I'll cut that member some slack. If it's someone who should know better, I probably wouldn't. It's really an individual choice on that front.

I doubt that a person would find his/her account suspended without warning about the rules. But if the person was warned and continued the practice, yes the account would be in jeopardy.

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 2:47 PM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2008
Posts: 7,199
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and that makes total sense - I know some don't take advise well - I have seen it in the forums - me personally I do - I figure life is to short and I love this site and take it as someone looking out for me!

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 3:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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I think a lot of people don't realize this would be against the rules on a swap site. I will usually take each situation individually. If the post is buried and not really noticeable, I PM the person. If it is an obvious post or keeps getting bumped, I will post in the thread that it is against the rules. That is just so that anyone looking at the thread understands the rules so they don't do it in the future figuring since they saw it in the forum it was OK. If they edit or remove the post, I will too. I don't report the threads myself, I guess if I saw a repeat offender after they were warned that'd be different, but I like to give them a chance to withdraw the offer before I get R&R involved.

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 5:10 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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It seems like the rules only say you can't do such a swap without using the credit system, but I have no reason to believe the people involved are planning not to use credits. All they would have to do is post the books to each other. Would that still be against the rules?

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 6:02 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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That would be fine Willa. It just cannot be a creditless swap. They can post to each other/order from each other as long a they have credits to do it. I have seen a few that are clearly looking to do a creditless swap, saying things like "PM me so we can exchange addresses" or "I don't have any credits so I would be willing to swap book X if you have book Y". I don't think they would close anyone's account for one mis-step on this, just so long as no one made it a habit.

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 6:24 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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Okay, I guess what I'm seeing is kosher then.

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 6:48 PM ET
Member Since: 10/21/2007
Posts: 3,430
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What about swapping unpostables?  I swapped a couple of unpostables for an ARC...I figure that is OK since we wouldn't get credits anyway. 

Date Posted: 3/26/2008 9:55 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Yes, Sheena. When reading the HC rules, it looks like the concern is avoiding using the credit system. If the credit system cannot be used anyway, it's not a problem. :)