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Topic: Book has writing, but not "on text page", is it postable?

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Subject: Book has writing, but not "on text page", is it postable?
Date Posted: 7/14/2009 4:28 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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I'm sure I'm not the first person this has happened to: I just got a request for a book that has been on my shelf since I joined. Looking through it before I agree to send, I notice that either I (in my misguided youth) or someone else has decided to use the "other books by this author" list on the inside of the front cover and one of the first pages, to mark which books had and had not been read. Some titles have red lines drawn through them, some have little circles drawn next to them. I know writing is not allowed, but I notice in the help documents that it very specifically states that no "text" pages have writing on them. Does text include ANY text, or just the story itself? What would you do?
Date Posted: 7/14/2009 4:36 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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I wouldn't send it.  I'd list it in the BB for a credit with the description of problems.  I'm so ingrained with hatred for underlining and red ink that I would absolutely call it a RWAP.  It may not be in the text of the content of the story, but it is on a printed page.


Date Posted: 7/14/2009 4:44 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,090
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It is postable. There can't be writing on text pages. The title page is not a text page.

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 4:53 PM ET
Member Since: 3/11/2008
Posts: 1,716
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Very interested in this topic. I'm hoping a TG comes by to clarify. I have a few books like this, myself.

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 5:03 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,213
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Since the writing is on text, I would consider it not postable. If someone had written on that page without obscurring text I think it would be fine, but when it is on the text someone could take issue with it. Yeah, you could post it and maybe not get it marked RWP or argue with someone who marks it that way that the rules mean story text when they only say text, but do you really want the hassle? I would do as Ruthy suggested and offer it in the Bazaar (or your siggy linie) with full disclosure. 

Last Edited on: 7/14/09 5:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/14/2009 5:04 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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It qualifies as postable.  But I'd still PM the person as it does push the line.  (I'm assuming you mean one of the title pages and not a text page.)

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 5:24 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,090
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Well, you can go back and forth forever on the exact meaning of a text page.

The writing on the inside of the front cover is OK.

If that "book list" page was missing from the book, it would still be postable. I think its postable with the writing, too.

Depending on what "text" page it is, people will give you different answers. For example, lots of paperbacks have those "publisher" pages at the end listing other books and maybe coupons to order them, etc. The pages have "text" on them, but it is generally acknowledged that these pages can be missing completely and the book is still postable.

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 6:02 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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Well, even if the book list text is considered "text" as far as the rules go, I can still accept and PM them, as per the textbook exception, correct? Didn't TPTB say that ANY book can fall under this exception, as long as the receiver agrees to it ahead of time?
Date Posted: 7/14/2009 6:39 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,349
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I agree.  To my mind, it's a gray area. I think the "no text pages" rule means that you are okay in posting it (text pages means story pages) but that you should PM the requestor and get the okay before mailing.

Gray area books are postable, as long as there's communication.  And since there's no express rule about no writing on pages prior to the start of the story, it seems gray to me.

Here's a longish quote from the most recent newsletter that applies obliquely:

Dear Librarian- I saw that there is a "textbook exception" that allows textbooks to be posted if they have underlining or highlighting or writing in them.  How do you define a textbook?  What if I have a novel that was used in a class?  - Hesitant in Hattiesburg

Dear Hattie,

The "textbook exception"  has three parts, really.  Each one is very important, and together they help the textbook exception work well in the club.  First, the textbook exception allows textbooks to be posted with writing/highlighting/underlining (no non-textbooks may be posted with such markings). Second, the textbook exception includes the stipulation that the sender write a Personal Message to the requestor describing the book's condition and third (and most important!), the sender must receive a Personal Message in reply from the requestor, agreeing to the described condition, BEFORE sending the book.  If the requestor does not respond, or declines the book in its condition, the sender must NOT send the book - the sender must let the system cancel, or cancel it by clicking "cancel order".

This requirement of a PM exchange with the requestor accepting the book means that it is not possible for a sender who is following the rules to send a "surprise" highlighted/written in book to a requestor.   For that reason, it does not matter what the sender considers a textbook - if it has markings that will allow it to be posted only if it is a textbook, then the sender is bound by the textbook exception rules to describe it in a PM, and must receive a reply PM consenting to its condition, before sending it.  In this way, matters will naturally sort themselves out: the math textbook that a requestor would expect to have writing in it will be accepted when it is described, while the novel that is read for a class will probably NOT be accepted when it is described.  The sender needs to decline if the requestor refuses the book in its condition.  At some point (after enough refusals from requestors), the member who is trying to send a novel as a textbook will realize that since it is not generally perceived as a textbook, it will probably not be possible to send out a marked-up version of that book here. 

Hope that helps clarify this issue! You can read the textbook exception in the Help Center, of course, in the Help doc "Book Condition Criteria".

Date Posted: 7/14/2009 6:54 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,090
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Sure, you can always PM about it!

Date Posted: 7/16/2009 3:54 PM ET
Member Since: 10/21/2007
Posts: 3,430
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Liesl, What ever happened with this?  I have had a couple of books ordered from me at different times in the past that upon reinspection fell into the gray area.  I usually PM the member & see if they want the book as a freebie with something else on my shelf.  That way, we're both happy...they got their book along with a freebie and I earned a credit.