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Topic: Books cancelled by sender, but shipped

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Subject: Books cancelled by sender, but shipped
Date Posted: 9/24/2013 2:34 PM ET
Member Since: 8/29/2012
Posts: 273
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I ordered books thru the Book Bazaar and was told by member via that site, that the orders were accepted.   I thought that I saw them in the books in route to me section, but I can't be sure.  Anyway, a few days later, I see new orders for three of the 4 books that I ordered, all from different members.  I cancelled these 3 new orders and rechecked the in route to me section.  Sure enough, 1 book was coming to me from another member that I did not actually order from.  I sent a PM to the member that I placed the original order with, asking her to please notify people when they reject orders so that they do not roll over to other members.  She responded that she had not rejected the order, but that she had shipped it and it should arrive by this Friday.  Now she wants me to buddy 4 credits to her.   Why did the system not show that she had shipped these books?   When I receive her books, I will buddy her the credits, but I am out a credit because the system rolled the order.    Also, my RC states that a book should not be sent unless I send a PM requesting the book, so the member who sent the rollover book should not have accepted the request because I did not PM her and so the book did not qualify under my conditions.

Gloria



Last Edited on: 9/24/13 2:39 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/24/2013 2:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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She must have forgotten to mark the books mailed. I'm surprised anyone would even ever accept a request saying not to mail books unless you send a pm to confirm.  I'm not sure that's even an RC that PBS would back up because you shouldn't request books unless you know you want them.

You do not owe her a credit for the book order that you couldn't cancel. If the sender forgets to mark a book mailed and the receiver ends up with a duplicate, it's the sender who takes the hit.  You did your best to cancel them and it's not your fault one person was quick to mail.

Date Posted: 9/24/2013 5:09 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,471
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Please please do NOT buddy her a credit!  You can mark her books received from your Transaction Archive.  If you receive a duplicate copy due to her mistake of not marking the book as mailed, you do not have to mark her copy as received.  You do have to mark the second copy received.

Date Posted: 9/24/2013 5:16 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,916
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Also, my RC states that a book should not be sent unless I send a PM requesting the book, so the member who sent the rollover book should not have accepted the request because I did not PM her and so the book did not qualify under my conditions.

I don't know about that. I am not so sure that you can make a RC that says nobody can mail a book that you've requested to you unless you also send a PM. The book request IS the book request. I guess you could ask TPTB for advice but my guess is that they will tell you you can't do that. Or, at least, that if someone mails a book anyway without the PM that you are not entitled to a credit back. You are trying to use the system in a way that it is not intended to be used, and also in a way that other members would not be expecting at all.

Regarding the other books .... the other member probably forgot to mark them mailed. If you receive a second copy of one or more of the books because the first member forgot to mark her books mailed, then you don't owe her a credit for any of the books for which another order was placed. So, buddy her 3 credits when you receive your books, and the member who sent the 4th book gets the 4th credit. If I were you, I would not try to deny her a credit based on your RC, which I don't think is really legal.



Last Edited on: 9/24/13 5:17 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/24/2013 5:50 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,724
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this whole discussion has me confused........I thought all Book Bazaar deals were handled outside the normal system so wouldn't be able to "roll over".

Subject: Rollovers & Book Bazaar
Date Posted: 9/24/2013 6:09 PM ET
Member Since: 8/29/2012
Posts: 273
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I can understand the points that everyone makes.  I still do not like the fact that the system automatically rolls an order over.  Why can't the system just  notify a member that a sender can not meet the obligation and allow the requester to place another order on their own ?     I did not order the single book, the system did.  My order consisted of 12 books on a 3/1 offer.  This is not the first time I have lost credits because of rollover orders.  That is the reason I changed my RC.   I am going to change it again to state more emphatically that unless the book is part of a multiple order placed thru book bazaar, do not send it.  I would rather lose out on a book than to keep losing credits.  

Date Posted: 9/24/2013 6:11 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,471
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Many Book Bazaar deals involve ordering one or more books, with freebies added.  Un-postable book deals must be outside the system.  

I personally use the "Send Book to a Friend" option for the freebies.  After forgetting to remove books from my shelf.

 

Now a RC about this order being a deal?  That would make sense.  That could be turned on and off as needed.



Last Edited on: 9/24/13 6:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/24/2013 6:30 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 620
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Gloria, I would imagine that the system automatically rolls the request over because it assumes that if you ordered it, you want it.  It has no way of knowing that it was a multiples deal.

mistie -
Date Posted: 9/24/2013 7:56 PM ET
Member Since: 9/27/2007
Posts: 2,019
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Gloria, you don't need to lose a credit in that case.

"If the sender forgets to mark a book mailed and the receiver ends up with a duplicate, it's the sender who takes the hit."

The original sender of the 12 books did not mark the ordered four mailed. This is why they rolled over. You "owe" her three credits (when the books are received), and the fourth credit goes to the person who sent you the rolled-over/single book. This will obviosuly make her unhappy - well, next time she will be more careful to mark the books mailed.

I understand your frustration about the "roll-over" issue, but, I do not agree with your idea that the system should not roll-over, but just notify the reuestor the book is not available. When I order a book, it is because I want it - I don't want to be notified when (and every time) it rolls over and have to re-request it.  The system, as it stands, actually works very well - the problem you are having is because the person you are requesting deals from are not following throuhg correctly.

Regarding your RC "if I haven't PM'd you, don't send it" - maybe re-word it along the lines of "if this is not part of a BB deal, please decline my RC" - and then, to simpify things, turn it off when you are requesting through FIFO. It then does become your responsibility to keep on eye on your request. the book could be cycling through lots of memebres - all decliging your RC, and you are naively thinking it is still sitting with the person who you actaully rquested it from. 

Date Posted: 9/25/2013 7:32 AM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2010
Posts: 5,700
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Wait, wait, wait...  So, the deal the OP got in the bazaar turns from a 3/1 deal into a 4/1 deal?  

Gloria, you did say in your original post that the member making the offer had accepted your order, right?  Something here just doesn't sit well with me.  Maybe I don't know enough about the BB to make any judgements, but I ordered a 4/1 deal there just last month, and even though the book I actually ordered from the member was water damamged and heavily highlighted throughout, I could still use it.  I therefore sent a friendly note advising they should look more closely at their books before sending them out, and that was that.  2 of the 3 other books were brand new, never read, and there was no way I was gonna RWAP the order and get 4 books for nothing.  Just personal opinion.

Date Posted: 9/25/2013 8:57 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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OK I thought the OP was only getting 4 books for 4 credits from the sender. 

If the package comes and all 12 books are in it, then I'd buddy her the 3 credits.  She loses 1 credit for the duplicate you end up getting and you are still out only the 4 credits you agreed to pay. You might be able to mark the other 3 from the transaction archive and I would look there first.  I haven't ever had to do that so I don't know if you can.

It would be nice if they added a box to check when you order books to ask you if you want the request rolled over or not.  



Last Edited on: 9/25/13 8:58 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/25/2013 12:26 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,337
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I'd echo what Emily said.  Rather than buddying her credits for anything you owe her, mark the books received from your transaction archive when they arrive.  (You'll be able to do that even if you have a negative credit balance.)  You have the option of not marking the one book received if you receive a second copy of it.

And you can see what happened if you click to see the request details (near the PM button) in your transaction archive.   If there is no "date mailed" listed, then she didn't mark the books mailed before the deadline.

Date Posted: 9/25/2013 7:29 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,471
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If the books were ordered, the cancelled ("rolled over") order is in your Transaction Archive.  Please use this area to have the credits transferred.  It is the receiver's choice to credit the account or not if duplicates were received.  

Using the Transaction Archive will do a bunch of things as well as transfer the credit.  You are given the option to have the book added to your bookshelf.  The book's "passport" or footprint is kept.  A record is kept that PBS and the sender can both see.  You have an option to mark the book's condition. 

Buddy credits will disappear from your record after time.  I think it is six months.  (I always recommend sending a PM about a buddy credit, then archiving the PM.  As we all know there are times when we do buddy a credit.  Such as switched book orders to cover the extra postage.  And deals for books that cannot go through PBS like damaged books or ARCs.)

You can find the Transaction Archive on both your pull down My Account menu and on your My Account main page.

You have to be VERY CAREFUL in the Transaction Archive. A credit will be taken from your account if the book in the Transaction Archive is marked as received. Please be very careful there. Always be careful and double check the sender. Mistakes here cannot be undone.

Date Posted: 9/26/2013 12:42 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2010
Posts: 8,415
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It would be nice if they added a box to check when you order books to ask you if you want the request rolled over or not.

Mary, I love that idea.  I have been burned on a Book Bazaar deal where the sender decided they couldn't send, cancelled the order, and all of the books rolled over to individual orders from different people.

Date Posted: 9/28/2013 9:05 AM ET
Member Since: 7/10/2011
Posts: 2,353
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Wouldn't placing your account on vacation mode right after ordering the first time prevent a rollover? 

Date Posted: 9/28/2013 10:41 AM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,471
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Yes, it would.  But it might also prevent the person with the deal adding other books off your wish list.

Date Posted: 10/1/2013 11:39 AM ET
Member Since: 8/29/2012
Posts: 273
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Thank you for all the great comments and helpful suggestions.  I received an e-mail from the sender of the 12 books this morning asking me if I was going to stiff her because I had not buddied her the credits yet.  I have received her 12 books, plus the 1 from another member.  I was waiting to see what I could do about the additional book since I don't need it.   I did check the transaction archive and saw that the system cancelled the orders because the member failed to mark them shipped.   The same day the system cancelled the orders, the 2nd member shipped her book out.  Anyway, I will send the original member her credits thru the transaction archive today, but I don't intend to place any further orders with her.  All of this could have been avoided if she had marked the books mailed on time.  The system sends out reminders when due dates are approaching, so I find it hard to accept any excuses for not following up on this.      Thank you again for all of the supportive information.

Date Posted: 10/1/2013 10:47 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2009
Posts: 793
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I'm going to play the devil's advocate here. I think we need to put this in perspective.  If the sender was so generous as to give me 12 books for 4 credits I certainly wouldn't begrudge her 3 credits (4-1 because of her error in not marking them sent).   A lot of people don't offer that great of a deal and we can all make mistakes.  I certainly wouldn't come away feeling I was losing credits because of a 1 out of 12 book error.  Especially since you probably will be able to relist them all for 1 credit each.



Last Edited on: 10/1/13 10:49 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/2/2013 2:57 PM ET
Member Since: 5/21/2008
Posts: 1,225
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My understanding is that vacation hold doesn't affect active requests, so it wouldn't stop the rollover.  From the How does the Vacation Hold affect My Bookshelf? help text:

Books that are already involved in an active request will not be affected by the Hold.

  • Any book request that was submitted before the Hold went into effect will not be affected by the Hold
  • Any book request you submit at any time (before, during or after the Hold will not be affected by the Hold.


Last Edited on: 10/2/13 2:58 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 10/2/2013 3:32 PM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2010
Posts: 5,700
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Thersa, you're absolutely right.  That's exactly what I was trying to say.  I think it's pure crap.

Subject: Final resolution
Date Posted: 10/2/2013 4:20 PM ET
Member Since: 8/29/2012
Posts: 273
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The original member who sent 12 books has been given the 4 credits as per the 3/1 offer.  She did refund a credit, but I declined it and gave it back to her because I think she deserves all 4.   The 2nd member was given her credit, plus, she is getting the book back as I think it fits in with her bookshelf better than mine.   How I wish the system would not roll over orders or give us some other tool to use to prevent this from happening.    This was not about a $2 or $3 dollar credit, it was about the frustration with the system not being flexible enough to allow roll over orders to be stopped.   I submitted ideas for resolution of this issue way back when and have not seen any of those ideas implemented.   If the system can ask us if we want our RC's applied to an order, why can't it ask us if we want the order rolled over ?

Thanks again for all the comments.

 

Date Posted: 10/2/2013 7:29 PM ET
Member Since: 7/10/2011
Posts: 2,353
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Erin, the vacation hold doesn't affect an active request to a member, but it does prevent the request from rolling over if the request isn't accepted or isn't marked mailed in time.

Date Posted: 10/3/2013 7:49 AM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2010
Posts: 5,700
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Gloria, IMO, that was the right thing to do.  But, why didn't you keep the second book and repost it, rather than send it back?

Date Posted: 10/3/2013 12:51 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,916
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Yep, that was my question, too. People trade books they don't want anymore. Why would she want the book back? I'd personally be a little annoyed at receiving back a book I successfully got rid of, even if the other person meant to be nice. I'm trying to get rid of books, not get copies of books that are already gone from my house.



Last Edited on: 10/3/13 12:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/4/2013 4:40 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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I'm going to play the devil's advocate here. I think we need to put this in perspective.  If the sender was so generous as to give me 12 books for 4 credits I certainly wouldn't begrudge her 3 credits (4-1 because of her error in not marking them sent).   A lot of people don't offer that great of a deal and we can all make mistakes.  I certainly wouldn't come away feeling I was losing credits because of a 1 out of 12 book error.  Especially since you probably will be able to relist them all for 1 credit each.

3 credits that the requester no longer has because of the sender's neglect to mark the books mailed and the books getting requested again (using the credits) to get duplicate copies. You can't spend your money in two different stores and you can't spend your credits twice. Doesn't matter how great of a deal the first sender gives, if they cause a duplicate order it costs the requester double. Even if the requester relists, they have to pay postage to recoup the double paid credits.