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Topic: Bullied

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Subject: Bullied
Date Posted: 11/3/2010 8:54 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 1
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Here's the deal and maybe someone can help me. I posted a book an older book in fairly good condition. The book is over 20 years old and is rather hard to come by, so when I received it from PBS I was very excited. After finishing the book, I posted it, and of course it was accepted. After I sent it, the requestor sent me her conditions. She has just messaged me that the book she got was in poor condition, with a ripped cover and tape. She requested that I refund her credit, which I did. Here lies the problem. I KNOW that no tape was on the book when I sent it, and though loved, no rips in the cover. But I felt that to keep my good name, I had to refund the credit, because as the site says, a good resolution to a problem swap will look better if your account is ever checked. Personally, I feel that I was bullied into giving her back her credit, so that I will stay in good favor. Is there no recourse if you are accused of sending a book in a condition you know it wasn't in? Or is it just the recipient's word against yours?

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 9:00 AM ET
Member Since: 4/23/2007
Posts: 9,520
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The requester was in the wrong. The requestor conditions must be in place prior to the book being ordered, not after. If you are confident that the book was postable according to PBS guidelines, you were not required to return the credit. I would chalk this one up to experience, and if you are ever in doubt about the postability of a book (sometimes it can be "borderline"), another option would be to offer it up in the Book Bazaar as a freebie with an order from your shelf.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 9:01 AM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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You have no obligation to return a credit if you don't want to.  One RWP isn't going to matter, as long as you communicate politely and clearly with the person who received the book.  Unfortunately, the Team very, very seldomly get involved in individual trades, as there is simply no way for them to determine the condition of the book.  However, if the person was rude or abusive, feel free to forward the message to the site owners. 

In the future, if this happens again, requesting photos might not be the worst idea.

edit: grammar, grammar, C!



Last Edited on: 11/3/10 11:21 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/3/2010 9:35 AM ET
Member Since: 2/25/2010
Posts: 388
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If I was absolutely sure that there were no rips nor tape on the cover, I wouldn't refund the credit.  I don't blame you for wanting to keep peace and your good name intact but like the others said...one RWAP with polite PMs isn't going to hurt your name. 

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 9:36 AM ET
Member Since: 7/12/2010
Posts: 4,177
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If you know you were right, then stick to your guns.  Don't refund the credit.  One rough RWAP issue on your record isn't going to matter.

-RD

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 9:51 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Also even if there was a rip and tape on the cover-as long as the tear was under an 1" it was postable. I would not have refunded the credit. 

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 10:18 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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You knew the book wasn't sent as they described it, so you shouldn't have refunded the credit.

The system works both ways on this site. If a book received was clearly not postable, then a member has the right to as for return of the credit without feeling guilty. Same goes for the sender. If you know the book you sent was postable, then stick to your guns and don't refund the credit.

Requestor Conditions don't count unless you see the RC when you get the order, and agree to them when accepting. She's not allowed to add conditions later. So she has no leg to stand on at this point on anything that isn't already mandated by the site.

Also, remember that there are a lot of people who trade here who've never bothered to read the rules. Sad but true. Some people have even gotten RWAP and credit refund requests for books with no dustjackets, when DJ's aren't required unless there's an RC involved. So you can get hit by an RWAP by someone who doesn't know the rules, or who didn't have their RC's up and forgot. Don't let it spook you. Just let them know, nicely, they're in the wrong and you won't be refunding their credit.

A few RWAP here and there won't hurt you. They happen, and TPTB know that not all trades end with everyone happy.



Last Edited on: 11/3/10 10:19 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/3/2010 10:40 AM ET
Member Since: 12/10/2009
Posts: 2,499
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I know how you feel Allie M, I did the same thing. I knew my book was in good condition wen I sent it, I was new and my first impulse was to send their credit back when they reported a problem thinking that was the right thing to do; and it left a bad taste in my mouth that lasted for a day or so. I felt taken advantage of; but you have to let it go and learn from it. I now tell my self to think about refunding that credit a least one whole day before I act . They should have their "conditions" in an RC that you can see before you accept the transaction.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 11:54 AM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I would not have returned the credit.  Why?  Because I don't like bullies or people who lie.  I once had a member say that the book I sent had pages falling out.  Since I had just read the book before posting, I knew this was not true.  I refused to return her credit.  She sent me a daily PM harranguing me for over a week before she finally gave up.  If you let a bully win, you are doing everyone else here a disservice because they will continue their bullying ways if they are rewarded for the behavior.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 12:10 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/3/15 1:34 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/3/2010 12:16 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Yeah, what they said Allie  indecision

And come talk to us if you are uncomfortable with a situation.  Somebody is usually around to give virtual hugs and bounce ideas off of.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 1:12 PM ET
Member Since: 11/30/2007
Posts: 4,980
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I was bullied a couple of months ago by a receiver of a book from me. She had an RC of which my book complied with and she tried to bully me into sending her a credit. Her first of many pms directly ordered me to refund her credit immediately! Even if her RWAP was legit (but it wasn't), PBS doesn't require a resolution to happen immediately. I think there is a 5-7 days resolution period. I refused to refund her credit because my book did comply with her RC. I felt also that if I did refund her credit, it would be in sense admitting that I did send her a book that was not in compliance with her RC and thus would be a lie on my part. I am not going to be bullied into lying and making PBS think that I did indeed do what the requestor said I did when I didn't, which would be the case if I had refunded her credit. After numerous pms from her trying to shame me into refunding her credit by telling me that it will hurt my record etc., I never caved in and will remain glad I had stuck to my guns. The resolution of course was marked as NO resolution, but PBS has all our pm messaging back and forth on record. If you look at the help docs, you will find the area about what to do if you disagree with a requestor's RWAP.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 1:40 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2006
Posts: 5,751
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When I send a book to someone with a RC about condition, I take a picture or two of the book with my phone before mailing. That way if a question arrises later I have proof of the condition it was sent out in. I also had a receiver complain about a book that was brand new- read once when I mailed it out. I asked her if she had a digital camera and she said yes. I asked her to photograph the issue and amazingly she never contacted me again.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 5:29 PM ET
Member Since: 12/8/2007
Posts: 1,011
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I am like Margaret- I take photos of all the books I send out now and when the transaction is complete and all is fine, I delete the photos from my camera. Don't wish to get burned again on a book I know is completely fine and postable.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 5:35 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 8,411
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Are you sure it was your copy she RWAP'd?  She could have gotten a copy from another member who didn't mark it mailed, and then the order went to you.  She got the first copy, but marked your copy as received because it was on her account page.  I've seen it happen.



Last Edited on: 11/3/10 5:35 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/3/2010 5:39 PM ET
Member Since: 2/2/2010
Posts: 1,206
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I hate to think that we have to take photos of the books we send. frown  You know?

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 6:06 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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If an RC worried me enough to think I needed to take pictures of hte book-I'd decline the RC in a second.

Date Posted: 11/3/2010 8:47 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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If an RC worried me enough to think I needed to take pictures of hte book-I'd decline the RC in a second.

Same here. It's just not worth all the worry in the end.

And when I send, I know the books condition, so I'm not worried about standing my ground if I knew I'd checked for that problem before mailing. I probably would refund if I had to admit to myself it was something I could have missed.

Date Posted: 11/4/2010 12:41 AM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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I'm not seeing how the sender was bullied by the receiver. She says she feels bullied by the way the site works; that's not the same thing.

Date Posted: 11/4/2010 11:14 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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It sounds like the receiver emphasized that if the sender didn't return the credit it would be a double black mark on her account, and if she wanted to be a good member, she'd refund the credit.

I didn't see the PM, of course, but that's what I took from the OP. Nothing wrong with emphasizing the double black mark if the transaction is marked unresolved, but if she dwelled on the being a good member part to get the OP to break and do her bidding, I would consider it bullying.

Date Posted: 11/4/2010 12:14 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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Nothing wrong with emphasizing the double black mark if the transaction is marked unresolved

It is, in fact, frequently recommended as something to say in this very forum. :-)

Date Posted: 11/4/2010 2:46 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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Exactly, but if she bullied her by telling her she would be a bad member if she didn't return her credit, that's not cool. The OP said in her post that she wanted to be a good member which is what led me to believe that was where the bullying came in, not the emphasis on a double black mark.

Date Posted: 11/4/2010 3:12 PM ET
Member Since: 5/21/2008
Posts: 20
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I seldom send to people who have RC's, except for the pets and cigarettes ones, because they often seem to use the RC's as a way of getting books without giving a credit.  I had one a couple of weeks ago whose RC's dealt with hardback dust jackets and the condition of audio books.  The book requested was a paperback, so I sent it. 

She RWAP'ed it, saying it didn't meet her conditions.  I explained to her that she had no paperback conditions.  The book was a cheap western paperback, a dozen years old, was yellowed and scuffed, but met PBS conditions.  She wrote back that it had a broken spine.  Of all the faults it had, that was not one of them.  The book didn't even fall open to a certain page.  You could not lay it on a table and read it because you had to hold it open.

I refunded the credit and will not send to RC's in the future.  What is with these people, anyway?  They want perfect books with perfect dust jackets.  Or paperbacks in pristine condition.  What do they do with them?  Display them?  Carry them in their hands to answer the door and impress the pizza delivery man?  Sell them?  Do the books they sent to earn the credits to get these books meet their RC's?  Or are they sending just passable paperbacks and demanding like new hardbacks with dust jackets?  Whatever, I am not playing their game.  If the book meets PBS standards, I accept it.  I have no requestor conditions and cannot see a need for them except for allergies.



Last Edited on: 11/4/10 3:17 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/4/2010 3:26 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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Jeanne, just to play devils advocate, the spine of an old paperback can very easily be broken in the mail.

Date Posted: 11/4/2010 3:45 PM ET
Member Since: 5/21/2008
Posts: 20
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It's not likely.  Perhaps she didn't know what a broken spine is.  I didn't, I had to look it up.  Coming from someone who apparently doesn't understand her own RC, I would not give her statement much credence.

 

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