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Subject: Cat pee books....
Date Posted: 2/27/2013 11:00 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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OMG, I don't know that I really believed that people receive cat pee books sometimes..... Until I got my very first cat pee book today! Yuck, Yuck, Yuck. I had to toss it in the trash, which is really a shame because it looked brand new, and it actually MUST be pretty new, cause it was a nice hardcover published last year. I'm sorry I ever doubted you guys.....
Date Posted: 2/27/2013 11:04 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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http://www.reviewsbyjessewave.com/wpstorage/Green_Smilies/icons/smiley_emoticons_frown.gif

Date Posted: 2/27/2013 11:12 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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I took it out of the package, and I thought it stunk, so I asked my niece to smell it without saying anything ... and she took one sniff and was like "What is that, cat pee?!"

and then we both washed our hands while she asked me if you could get sick from old cat pee.....

I haven't done the RWAP yet, still musing over how to word it exactly ....



Last Edited on: 2/27/13 11:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/27/2013 11:46 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,327
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Oh yuck. 

One time my son had a sleepover at a friend's house.  When he went to get his down sleeping bag, he came back to me and wanted me to check it out.  It was zipped closed, but wet on top.  He thought maybe it was cat pee.  It looked like water to me, and I smelled it -- it didn't smell like anything at all.  I touched it, and almost tasted it, but... no.

We wiped it off and took the bag home.  Well, some time later, my son asked me to smell it again.  In a few hours, maybe  a day, it had aged into full cat pee olifactory bulldozerness.

I got a call several days later from the friend's mom.  She'd heard the story and told me that yes, one of their cats had a history of annointing down bags.  She was so, so sorry.  And, she replaced the down bag with a better quality one, over my objections.  Her husband worked at Marmot, so my son ended up with a really nice bag.

Let's hope this cat pee book story ends as well.  And I'm so glad I didn't give it the taste test.



Last Edited on: 2/27/13 11:47 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 2:04 AM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2010
Posts: 4,314
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Yuck!!  I am glad I haven't received a book like that.

A few years ago someone gave me a sack full of clothes that she didn't want anymore & I thought it was sweet of her to do.  However, once I started taking out the clothes, I realized her cat had peed in it.  I was pretty grossed out.

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 6:09 AM ET
Member Since: 1/21/2009
Posts: 11,736
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What can someone be thinking to send out such a book?  I, too, had one that was chewed with visible teeth marks and smelled like animal pee.  I was still a newbie at the time and it shocked me. 

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 7:19 AM ET
Member Since: 4/6/2007
Posts: 1,399
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Last Edited on: 8/2/13 8:41 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 7:30 AM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2010
Posts: 754
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I think you are going to need to find evidence of urine splashes on the book in order to get a successful RWAP.   Did you look it over carefully before you threw it in the trash?   I agree with the others about the odor of urine not being RWAP able "enough", and I have a feeling it's going to take being able to see urine on the book.



Last Edited on: 2/28/13 7:31 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 8:51 AM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2005
Posts: 7,719
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Hmm, the age old question, is it cat pee or cat spray? Ugh to both. Sorry you got a smelly book, Sara. I dont envy you having to write the other member...

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 9:26 AM ET
Member Since: 2/6/2009
Posts: 1,410
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I will never understand people sending books soaked in pee! 

I once had a cardboard box of old Chicken Soup for the Soul books I found that I wanted to post on PBS. But before I could post them, my dog peed near the box and the puddle of pee soaked through the cardboard and onto the books. Not for a moment did I think I could still post them; I threw them all out at once.

What are people thinking?!

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 10:05 AM ET
Member Since: 1/5/2013
Posts: 552
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Ugh. Sorry it happened to you. I know if I opened a book package to find the contents reeking of cat urine, I'd probably get physically ill from the smell alone.

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 10:08 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2008
Posts: 7,759
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Hmm, the age old question, is it cat pee or cat spray?

This is exactly what I was thinking.  Pee is much...wetter, so you'd expect it to liquid damage the book.  Spray is often...finer, and may only leave it's reek behind. 

I agree also that if there was no liquid damage, that RWAP may not be warranted for just a smell.

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 12:38 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,327
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It may not have had an odor when she wrapped it.  Then after a few hours, somewhere in a box with other mail...

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 12:59 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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Well, the book looked perfect. So, it was probably spray. It's possible that the sender didn't know, however, all I can picture is a pile of books sitting on the floor near a litter box or something.

I have a cat too, but I don't keep any books near her litter box. And, she doesn't go to the bathroom anywhere else, or spray stuff, thank god. Although my Mom had a cat who would go pee on stuff in the closet, maybe once a year. Not often enough that you get to be careful about closing the closet door, but often enough to be really annoyed at throwing out pairs of shoes again.

I have to RWAP it, otherwise, I'll be at the back of the Wish List line.

I'm not all that fussy about books but there is absolutely no way I can read a book that smells like cat pee.

Having had cats for about the last 20 years, I've generally found that cat pee smell doesn't come without cat pee somewhere ... it must have cat pee on it, even if I can't see it.

Although apparently, it doesn't smell to everyone. Once my sister dressed my nephew and sent him to daycare (he was maybe 3) in clothes that absolutely stunk of cat pee. (The clothes were dry, and had been washed recently, they weren't off the floor or anything). She didn't notice, but when we picked him up, we could smell him from several feet away. Apparently her cat had peed on the clean laundry. I don't know how she misssed that one ...

 



Last Edited on: 2/28/13 1:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 1:46 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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Sara, a theory on your nephew ended up smelling like cat pee later in the day?  Sometimes clothing can go through the washer and dryer and not have much of a pet odor.  But put it on and after awhile the body heat seems to re-activate the odor...then it's (very) noticable again.  I have too keep the litter box very clean, or one of our cats may have an 'accident' in the laundry room crying  The new enzyme odor removers work well (if the garment hasn't been dryed) but not on paper.

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 1:48 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2008
Posts: 7,759
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I have to RWAP it, otherwise, I'll be at the back of the Wish List line.

But, Sara, are you doing the right thing by RWAP'ing a book based on smell if you didn't have an RC?  I don't think that's fair to the sender.

I hate that you got a bad smelling book, but could you not have put it in charcoal or tried some method of de-smelling it?  Throwing it away seems rash before trying to salvage it, but that's just my opinion.

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 2:06 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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Cat pee smell does not come without cat pee on the book. I've had cats for 20 years.  If you can smell cat pee, then there is cat pee somewhere.

It's not really the same as moldy/musty or smoky, because those substances are airborne, and the smell can permeate substances that are far away from the source. The source of the smell IS the air around the book.

Cat pee smell is not airborne, nor does it permeate things that have no cat pee on them. Well, normally, anyway. I don't know about cat hoarder situations or whatever.

 

Just in general, I am a very loose interpreter of the rules at PBS. I mail out "grey area" books all the time myself, and I feel just fine about it. I mail out books that smell slightly moldy or musty or smoky too. I woudl never send out a book that smelled like cat pee, though, because I do not believe that things can smell like cat pee if they don't have actual cat pee on them.



Last Edited on: 2/28/13 2:27 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 2:31 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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Might be interesting to ask The Team on this one.  Although I can see both sides of the issue, I'm kind of agreeing with Sara.  It's not like smoke that transfers odors via air.   Urine probably requires a direct transfer and therefore includes sanitation issues. 

I'm allergic to smoke, but don't get enough books to make it worthwhile to have an RC.  Cat pee tho?  That book isn't re-postable, and should be discarded immediately for health and sanitation purposes.

Sara, did you inspect the book outside under natural sunlight?  I've noticed that some substances react differently to different lighting.  IMO liquid damage is more visible in natural sunlight, the watermarks show even if there is little no discoloration.

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 2:45 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,466
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I would have done the same.  Throw it in the trash and RWAP the book.  Wouldn't waste my time (and my senses) inspecting the book for stains or trying to get the smell out.  If the smell's there, the stain's there somewhere.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 2:51 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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I hate that this situation happened to you, and am so sorry you got a book you cannot read.  It really is truly unfortunate that there is a WL line for the book.

But, with no visible damage and only a bad smell, it would be against the rules to RWAP it, unless you had a "smells" RC in place.  Cat pee book doesn't violate posting rules.  Not unless there was accompanying water damage and/or stains.  As noted above, Sender probably doesn't even know or notice that they sent out a smelly book.

This is just one of those frustrating situations...

 

PS Better to send a note in to the Team to ask them reinstate your position in the WL line than to improperly RWAP the book.  Although, you can feel free to notify Sender of the problem.

mistie -
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 4:29 PM ET
Member Since: 9/27/2007
Posts: 2,017
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Isn;'t there something in the PBS guidleines that state the book must be "in good condition" - or words to that effect? My interpretation would be that a book that reeked of cat pee was not in good condition - so, I'd be RWAP'ing.



Last Edited on: 2/28/13 4:31 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 5:05 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 614
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Books can and do absorb odors without coming into contact with an actual substance -- the porous paper is a sponge for smells.  I have a friend who owns a store that sells incense and candles (but she doesn't burn either in the store).  Every book that comes out of there smells just like her shop, even though the books never come into contact with the other merchandise. 

If I received a book that smelled of cat urine but showed no stains, I wouldn't feel right RWAPing it.  I think that people who live with that kind of odor can become immune to it; she may not have even realized it smelled.  (I know it seems impossible, but I've also known people who have that exact situation -- walking into their house would knock you over.  They seem oblivious).  I'd definitely send her a PM letting her know about the odor, though.  Hopefully she'd be horrified enough to refund the credit anyway.

Date Posted: 2/28/2013 5:13 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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If you have perfumes and perfumed candles in your house, then yes, you and your stuff probably smell like those perfumes.

If you smoke in your house, then you and your stuff probably smell like smoke.

If you burn incense in your house, then you and your stuff probably smell like incense.

If your house is moldy, then your stuff will probably eventually smell like mold.

BUT, but I have a cat now, and have even had as many as 3 cats at a time living in my house. If "cat pee" is a smell that you can have in your house and all over your stuff just from having cats, then there would be A LOT more of us that smelled like cat pee.

Cat pee is not an airborne smell. It doesn't come from having cats in your house. It comes from cat pee being on something.

 

And, people who have cats know ... if you come into a room of your house and you smell cat pee .... how do you find the evidence? You follow the smell.

 

The smell of cat pee IS the proof that something has cat pee on it.

20 years of cat ownership has shown me that: Things that smell like cat pee = things the cat peed on

Owning perfumed candles and incense may very well make your house smell like those things ... but owning cats does not make a house smell like cat pee. It may make your books smell like cats, perhaps ... but I think only a dog could tell.



Last Edited on: 2/28/13 5:26 PM ET - Total times edited: 5
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 5:31 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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I must agree, AND if it's a hard back, water can soak into the covers without it warping.. I know this because I've done it. Had a book I read in the bath tub, I'd take the dust jacket off, and sat it on the side of the tub.  That side was wet, I could SEE the wet imprint on the cover.  So I got to planks, weighted them down and left the book. When it was dry (3 weeks later), the book like the same, no water marks on the cover.  Hubby read it, my MIL has it. 

My point being, if this book got pee'd on the cover, then put under more books, the weight would stop it from really showing any water damager as the paper can not plump up. 

ICK! Yes I'd ask for my credit back as pee smell means pee on books. 

WAIT I KNOW HOW YOU CAN SEE IT! BLACK LIGHT!   Petsmart and other places sell black lights which when held over something with pee on it, will glow in the dark :)



Last Edited on: 2/28/13 5:32 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/28/2013 6:28 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 614
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Sara, I don't think anyone is going to convince you otherwise, but you're drawing your conclusions based on your own living standards.  Some people are just downright slovenly. Those of us who live with cats (I've lived with MANY over the years) and clean their cat boxes regularly don't have a problem.  Other cat owners aren't that conscientious and their houses reek of cat urine.  If they're lucky, the cats are still using the boxes despite the stench.  If not, the cats have moved on to any corner they can find.  And if the house reeks, everything in it will reek, whether it's been in direct contact with the urine or not.  Revolting as it may sound, the owners ignore the odor or become immune to it.  If your belongings can smell like perfume because you wear it, your house can also smell like cat pee if you have, effectively, large buckets of it sitting around your house.  Disgusting, but it definitely happens.

You have the right to RWAP it.  I still wouldn't feel right about it based on an assumption rather than evidence.

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