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Topic: Do They Change Something Around Here Every Week Or Two?

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Subject: Do They Change Something Around Here Every Week Or Two?
Date Posted: 2/1/2008 2:59 PM ET
Member Since: 1/10/2008
Posts: 345
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I've been here less than a month, and already there's the upcoming WL "reorganization" -- sorry, I can't think of what else to call it -- the book shelf changes and now I'm reading about the buddy list changes that, apparently, took pretty much everyone by surprise -- and I haven't seen a single "pro" comment so far. 

 

Is this normal?  Seems like every week someone's posting a question about "what happened to my . . ." and it turns out something's been changed. 

 

Will this settle down pretty soon, or is this kind of like one big surprise party? 

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 2:59 PM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 13,174
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No - everything seemed relatively stable until recently but then I came on board right after another really big change last spring.

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 3:07 PM ET
Member Since: 9/17/2005
Posts: 418
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the changes come and go -- I think it's when R&R have a spare moment or two to pop something new/updated in...

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 3:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Posts: 827
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LOL Kris, things go through periods of change and long periods of no change.   If you haven't seen a "pro" comment yet about today's changes just read some more topics!  A lot of ppl like these changes. 

The tendency to complain about a problem is much greater than the tendency to praise something in pretty much every situation in life, including these forums--just human nature, nothing against the complainers...  Complaining posts are much more common (and much more impassioned) than praise. Which makes sense--if something pisses you off, you're gonna vent about it, while if something is working or you like it, you just think, "Hey that's great".  No angst or irritation to drive you to the forums and post, y'know?  And the impassioned complaints are probably gonna be more memorable, and stick in your mind more, than the happy posts. 

Just the way it is.  :)



Last Edited on: 2/1/08 3:54 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/1/2008 3:57 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,689
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ok, if all these changes happen when R&R have spare moments would someone PLEASE give them something else to keep them busy!

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 4:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,121
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Liese-very good point about complaints being more likely than praise.  This comes up in customer service management all the time.

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 4:32 PM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Posts: 827
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Diane, ain't it the truth.  One study I know of found that the likelihood for a bad experience to be reported was approximately 17 x the likelihood for  a good experience to be reported.   This was done in a group of hospitals--they called everyone who had come into the ER over a period of time and asked them for their feedback, and compared it with the number of ppl from that same time period who had spontaneously reported.   

Personally, I think 17 x is an underestimate.  :) 

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 4:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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That's what I tell people that are p*ssing me off in customer service "If I get great service I tell 10 people, if I get crappy service I tell 100, how many people do you want me to talk to today?"

I loved the last change and said so in the threads, this one...not so much. Even though I know they are enhancing the site and this is the first sign of something I feel went in  the wrong direction, I do hope the changing settles down, I'd rather be reading than reorganizing around here.

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 6:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/10/2008
Posts: 345
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If you haven't seen a "pro" comment yet about today's changes just read some more topics!  A lot of ppl like these changes.

 

I'm not sure where those comments would be.  I've read the new threads here for today and people don't look happy to me.  They seem surprised and confused.  I've also been reading this board pretty regularly since I joined to try to get the "lay of the land" and I didn't see any mention of a change to the buddy list, though the upcoming wish list change has been a "hot topic." 

 

So I'm not sure how many placed I'm supposed to be looking for this, but I would *assume* it would be here.  If this was in the newsletter, I missed it there, too. 

 

Considering how much reading I do on this site every day, I would imagine I should have come across this annoucement somewhere  before people started asking what was going on? 

 

The tendency to complain about a problem is much greater than the tendency to praise something in pretty much every situation in life, including these forums--just human nature, nothing against the complainers . . .

 

Actually, I send compliments to people as much as I complain to them -- I make a point of it -- simply because I do know how rare that is. 

 

Maybe nothing against the complainers, but no one's listening to them, either.  I've said that before, in a thread about the WL changes, and nothing's happened in the interim to change my mind. 

 

 



Last Edited on: 2/1/08 6:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/1/2008 6:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/11/2005
Posts: 1,585
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Last Edited on: 2/7/15 2:14 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/1/2008 7:35 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,791
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Well, personally I have posted in at least 3 and maybe 4 threads postive comments about this new change AND I've seen many positive and neutral comments.

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 7:41 PM ET
Member Since: 1/10/2008
Posts: 345
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*Where* are these threads?  Are they here under "Questions About PBS" or are they somewhere else? 

 

I would like to see the positive side of the latest changes. 



Last Edited on: 2/1/08 7:41 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/1/2008 10:55 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,791
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There are several threads in CMT and one in Games.   

Date Posted: 2/1/2008 11:01 PM ET
Member Since: 1/10/2008
Posts: 345
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That explains it.  I wouldn't be looking there for that kind of thing. 

 

Thank you. 

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 4:47 AM ET
Member Since: 6/3/2007
Posts: 2,260
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I am neither for nor against the changes I just wish we got a heads up. The Bookshelf one really really threw me

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 7:59 AM ET
Member Since: 4/22/2005
Posts: 5,406
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Changes come and go as they dream them up. It doesn't matter what the populace want one way or the other.

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 10:21 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Actually, that's not exactly true, Mary. A great many of their changes come from people sending in their comments and requests for changes. I've seen a great deal of these changes be the direct result of conversations that have occured on the forums. I know I've talked with other people about some of our requests that we've submitted and then seen them appear. I think the changes are extremely based on the populace, just some of them are not bendable by the few extremely vocal voices that don't like what happens.

Such as the WL. If you will read those topics you will see certain names come up over and over again. It really isn't as negatively widespread as it seems. Mostly a lot of vocal members in opposition. There are many changes in the WL that are a direct result of requests from the populace, there just has to be other changes that come along with them to allow them to happen, and people don't realize this side of it.

Like wanting to allow more traffic down a particular highway. To do that, you must widen the highway. To do that, you must acquire more land on either side of the highway, and remove or move some things along the way, or add some things that make the new highway possible, such as more lights that glare in peoples windows. What ever the extreaneous changes, it doesn't change the fact that some of the changes that come along with the reworking of the WL are a direct result of requests from the members. They just don't want to accept things that have to come along with their requests.

Same is true with the buddy list change. One of the greatest requests, I think, was the ability to send mass PMs to people. I'm assuming with the layout of this site, it could only be accomplished thru the buddy list, and that would require being able to PM anybody on your buddy list. So, if you can now PM in one shot everybody on your buddy list, you better have a way for them to have approved being put on that list in the first place. See when you accept being placed on someone's buddy list, it not just so that they can see you, it's so that they can easily PM you, and now so that the can BLAST PM you. But, that's a condition of the BLAST PM that soooo many people have been wanting for so long. Another case of them listening to the populace, just the populace not realizing what else had to happen for them to get their wish.

I don't think I've seen a change come along in a long time, that didn't eventually turn out to be the result of wishes from the members either directly or indirectly. It's just another one of those "can't please everybody" things. Just because the 75 people in the forums are complaining doesn't mean there haven't been 250 feedback thank you's from people that don't post their negative complaints  :)

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 11:02 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,791
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As usual, very well said Sherry.   And I know you must be sleep deprived cause of that grandbaby being born! 

You make a lot of good points and I agree so strongly.    Like many things in life, I have to keep reminding myself, it's NOT about me - it's about the site and what is best for the site to run smoothly for the good of ALL the users. 

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 11:24 AM ET
Member Since: 1/10/2008
Posts: 345
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Same is true with the buddy list change. One of the greatest requests, I think, was the ability to send mass PMs to people. I'm assuming with the layout of this site, it could only be accomplished thru the buddy list, and that would require being able to PM anybody on your buddy list. So, if you can now PM in one shot everybody on your buddy list, you better have a way for them to have approved being put on that list in the first place. See when you accept being placed on someone's buddy list, it not just so that they can see you, it's so that they can easily PM you, and now so that the can BLAST PM you. But, that's a condition of the BLAST PM that soooo many people have been wanting for so long. Another case of them listening to the populace, just the populace not realizing what else had to happen for them to get their wish.

 

This is the kind of reasoning I don't understand. I don't see where one has anything to do with the other.  Unless they've changed the PM system so that I can't send PMs to people who aren't on my buddy list? 

 

If this is the purpose for the change, then solving one problem created another -- and a foreseeable one at that.  If people have been using their buddy lists to tag people they don't want to trade with, they certainly aren't going to want to send them a mass PM, let alone an invite to a buddy list.  So now, other than keeping a list beside the monitor, how do you keep track of people you've had problems with? 

 

I understand that this was *not* the purpose of the buddy list, but it was a use that was well-known in light of the fact that a better alternative wasn't available.  Now what? 

 

I get the newsletter in my email.  There was some kind of question and answer thing at the bottom that had a question about the new WL, but nothing about this specific change, or the reasoning for it.  I'm sure it wasn't coded overnight, so why not put it in the newsletter? 

 

I guess it just all depends, as usual, on one's perspective.  I see quite a few people here who view this place as a private playground that they're priviledged to visit, rather than the business that it is.  Once again I'm left with the impression that people who are unhappy with the changes, or the way they're implemented, are being patronized and dismissed as "complainers" since there are so many other people who *don't* say anything.  For instance --

 

Just because the 75 people in the forums are complaining doesn't mean there haven't been 250 feedback thank you's from people that don't post their negative complaints  :)

 

 

So because people don't post negative complaints, they're posting positive feedback privately?  If they have positive comments to make, why would they post negative complaints? 

 

I don't understand this one -- it doesn't mean there *have* been, either.  I could just as easily say that, because there are so many people in the world who wouldn't say anything, the 75 complainers are actually speaking for at least 250 other people.

 

The fact that 75 people are complaining doesn't mean anything other than 75 people are complaining.  I don't think you can come up with a guess as to how many are secretly sending positive feedback, or that they are sending positive feedback because they don't post negative complaints. 

 

 

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 3:24 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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More factors go into the buddy list than just pm's. Some people wanted to be able to make more of their info public like address. Ive seen a few that have them puplic so far. Then some wanted that info available to just their buddies but before you couldnt know who had you on their buddy list. Its never one factor but a large number of factors that effect change here.

Besides in a month no one will care that they have to approve a buddy and half the people on the site wont remember what it was like before the change. Thats the way it goes around here. When change happens people gripe and complain and a few praise and others make suggestions to make it more user friendly and after about a month no one cares anymore.

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 6:29 PM ET
Member Since: 12/17/2007
Posts: 2,936
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If the PTB are reading the forums and responding to requests, what would be a bonus would be an "Administrator's" discussion forum.  Someplace where they could post changes and updates and then instead of having to come to the general forums and ask "What's up with my  whatever?" Everyone could just check out the updates board and say "oh, okay, that's what happened."  Or is this around somewhere and I just haven't found it?

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 6:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Posts: 827
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Check What's New in the Help Center.  That seems to be updated when changes happen.

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 7:03 PM ET
Member Since: 12/17/2007
Posts: 2,936
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That's what I'm looking for! Thanks! It was here all along.

Subject: changes
Date Posted: 2/2/2008 8:56 PM ET
Member Since: 7/13/2007
Posts: 116
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Is there someplace to go that tells me what the changes are this week/day/month? I see people commenting that they "knew" xyz would happen, but I didn't. I have searched around, but can't seem to find that forum or list or whatever. That would be a big help, so I'm not shocked. Bad heart you know. (not really)

Date Posted: 2/2/2008 9:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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They announce big changes but small things like this happen on the fly when they have some down time so they dont get announced. When big changes happen it almost always happens close to when the newsletter goes out. For the smaller things there is no where to announce them and really no need. Usually Robert will come to the club members thoughts forum and explain what the change is after it goes live so that they can get feedback on bugs that are effecting new features. Just look for a red megaphone on a thread with a title about the newest change.

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