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Topic: Is this considered sender damage?

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Subject: Is this considered sender damage?
Date Posted: 4/19/2011 3:41 PM ET
Member Since: 9/20/2010
Posts: 8,495
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Received a book today that was not wrapped in any type of plastic, just wrapped in paper.  Well we are having horrible rain/sleet here and when I pulled the book out of the mail box, I noticed the paper wrapper was wet.  On removing the book I then noticed that one corner of the book had gotten wet (as it was not covered in any protective plastic!)  Is this considered sender damage and in that case rwapable?  Also, it looks like the glue in the spine of the book is struggling to keep some pages intact. They aren't loose but there are gaps where certain pages aren't completely stuck to the binding.  Is this also rwap?  

Thanks for your help!

Tina

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 3:52 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,857
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It is not a "RWAP by Sender" from the water damage.

PBS recommends but does NOT require that plastic be used in the wrapping.

So, based on that, you could mark it "RWAP - Damage by USPS" but you would not ask for your credit back. If it was a WL book, you might want to mark it RWAP to get back in the front of the line for a new copy, for example.

As to the pages and the binding. I can't really tell from your description. If the pages are attached to the binding, it is postable. If there are pinhole separations of the pages from the binding, that is also postable.

If there are pages or portions of pages not attached, then it is RWAP.

If you are able to post a picture, it might help us figure it out with you.

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 4:05 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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Just wanted to add that I've heard of others in wet climates who've added a condition requiring a layer of plastic on packages.

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 4:06 PM ET
Member Since: 9/20/2010
Posts: 8,495
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I'm going to try to get some photos to show you. Thanks for helping.

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 4:13 PM ET
Member Since: 9/20/2010
Posts: 8,495
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Okay, I hope this works! 

http://jelfsfamilyphotos.shutterfly.com/pictures/15

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 4:19 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,857
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good pics.

I think it falls into postable, if the pages are still securely attached.

I might not send one out that way because it might be getting close to "definitely unpostable" ... but I think it is probably still postable.

Everybody eventually receives a book or two that is technically postable but that they will need to retire when they are done with it. That's probably what you have there.

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 4:22 PM ET
Member Since: 9/20/2010
Posts: 8,495
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Thanks Sara, I feared that was the case.  I wouldn't have posted it, but I guess that doesn't mean it's necessarily unpostable.

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 4:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,600
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I am in agreement...I probably would not post a book like that but neither would I mark it RWAP. I have seen some new books with gaps like that, I think it is partially due to poor binding.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 6:35 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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It looks to me like you have a RWAP - Damaged by USPS.

Received a book today that was not wrapped in any type of plastic, just wrapped in paper.  Well we are having horrible rain/sleet here and when I pulled the book out of the mail box, I noticed the paper wrapper was wet.  On removing the book I then noticed that one corner of the book had gotten wet (as it was not covered in any protective plastic!)  Is this considered sender damage and in that case rwapable?

Since the sender has no control over the weather or how well the USPS protects mail while it is in their possession, damage done while in transit would not be considered damage by the sender. If you tend to have very wet seasons where books can get damaged getting to you, I'd suggest a Requester Condition asking for some type of weather proofing. I have one on my account for winter and through our wet spring and haven't had any problems.

For the binding issue - I don't think it is a binding issue, but a bad glue job. From the pics it looks like it is the last page or few pages and I've had books like this and they were like that from brand new. If the pages around it are still secure when the book arrived, then the book would be postable. Here is an answer another member got from the PBSTeam when they asked for clarification on the binding issue:

Okay... so I sent a clarification request to the PBS Team, and this is what I got back:

Dear Kim,

We would not consider a pinhole to be a cleaved spine. Books that fall open to a specific
page are postable, and almost every paperback book that does that has at least some small separations.

What matters here is if the pages are securely attached. If they are likely to fall out on the next reading, then the book should not be posted. We really cannot clarify this any further. We need members to use their common sense and best judgment about whether a book is about to fall apart or not. This is just not something we can judge without having the books in our hands.

Date Posted: 4/19/2011 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 9/20/2010
Posts: 8,495
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Thanks all, I made it rwap by usps damage.  At least I have the books I want to read and can always list them in unpostable swaps or in the book bazaar.  

Date Posted: 4/20/2011 5:14 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2009
Posts: 53
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Re:  Damp Book.    I read the rules & agree the book should be marked damaged by USPS, but it's the seller fault for not wrapping correctly. 

But, I'd ask for a credit.  Found this in the Help Center. 

If you feel that the wrapping of the book contributed to its damage en route:

  • You can tell the sender this in a Personal Message
    • Please be gentle!  The sender may be new to bookswapping.
    • You can ask for your credit to be refunded if you believe it is warranted.
Date Posted: 4/20/2011 5:33 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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"...it's the seller fault for not wrapping correctly"

Since plastic isn't required, I'm not sure you'd have a case that it wasn't wrapped correctly. Again, you'd need an RC if you want anything above and beyond the minimum requirements.

Date Posted: 4/20/2011 5:43 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,857
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but it's the seller fault for not wrapping correctly

Nope. There is no requirement to waterproof packages anywhere on PBS.

If you feel that waterproofing is the correct way to package books, you need to request that people do so in a RC.

Even Amazon does not waterproof their packages. I order books all the time and they arrive in cardboard (not waterproof) or sometimes bubble envelopes (not waterproof or even very resistant to punctures and rips).

Date Posted: 4/20/2011 7:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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Personal opinion on wrapped correctly will often differ from the site. The site's requirements are what counts. Plastic wrap is clearly marked optional in the pictoral instructions and the written just says to consider it. As long as a member followed the basic PBS instructions, they would not be obligated to return a credit for USPS damage. A book sent through the USPS system shouldn't ever be subjected to water so plastic shouldn't be necessary. Most of us do add plastic because we know what should happen and what does happen with the USPS can be very different. Here is what the Help Center says on how to correctly wrap a book:

How to wrap a Book Using the PBS wrapper


It couldn't be any simpler!

  • First, print the PBS wrapper from the transaction on your account page.
    • The 2-page version of the wrapper can be used alone to wrap most books.
    • The one-page "label" version of the wrapper will NOT be sufficient to wrap a book.
  • Then, use the two printer pages to make a package to enclose the book completely, as below.

Step 1 - Gather your materials:

 

 

Step 2 - Lay the book on page 2 of the PBS Wrapper, so that the long end of page 2 is parallel to the book's spine:

 

 

Step 3 - Fold up the long ends of page 2 over the book and crease. If you have wrapped the book in plastic, you can tape the short ends of page 2 to the plastic to make this easier. Do not tape anything directly to the book!

 

 

Step 4 - Lay page 1 of the wrapper crossways on top, so that the short ends of page 1 are parallel to the book's spine.

 

 

Step 5 - Curl page 1 around the book; flip it over and tape the short ends of page 1 down (onto the underside of page 2).

 

 

 

 

Step 6: Fold the paper over the ends of the book like giftwrapping a present

 

 


Step 7: Add your postage (Media mail rate for packages less than a pound is $2.13)

Now you're ready to mail!

 

NOTES:
  • It is always better to use too much tape than not enough! Clear 2" packing (NOT Scotch) tape should be used. Please do not tape directly to the book!!
  • Consider an innner layer of plastic (grocery bag, plastic wrap, etc.) to protect the book against moisture. A brand of plastic wrap called Press-N-Seal has glue that can leave a sticky residue on books; this brand is NOT recommended.
  • Make sure to tape all the corners and seams well.
  • If the book is large enough that the 2 sheets of printer paper will not enclose it completely, you can use an extra sheet of paper.
  • You can also use a variety of alternate materials to wrap your book, such as:
    • a padded or bubble mailer
    • a nonpadded manila envelope (be sure to tape the loose envelope material down tightly around the book if you choose this, so that no "flaps" stick out to get caught in postal machines)
    • a cut-down paper grocery sack.
    • Feel free to be creative! As long as your package is sturdy and protects the book(s) inside, it's all good!
    • You can tape page 1 onto your alternate packaging like an address label (tape it down securely), and tuck page 2 inside the package.



Last Edited on: 4/20/11 7:14 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 4/20/2011 10:53 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Although some of us may wish differently, plastic underwrap is not required by PBS guidelines.  Therefore (as already mentioned) the book should be noted as RWAP - damaged by USPS.