you have listed as one of your RCs that the book meet PBS guidelines regarding no stains, water damage, etc and you get turned down because the sender can't meet your RCs because of 'slight water damage', 'food stains, etc"?  I do and ask if the book shouldn't be pulled by them (TPTB) as there's no way to contact the sender when they turn down your request.  Just curious.  Pat

no but I probably would if I got that sort of response because the book isn't postable and TPTB need to know this!

No.  I figure when the book is shipped (to someone else) and marked RWAP, it will get sorted out then.  I figure TPTB have too much going on police every book before the fact.

I wouldn't. Some people turn down all requests with RCs no matter what, so the member might just say the book does not meet the conditions just so they can decline the request.

The problem is that people are scared of sending books to someone with RC's.  If the member is telling you that the book DOES have one of those specific problems then you 're okay since they won't send it to you.  But also they might be afraid that they might miss something and can't say  that they are 100%  sure that there is no problem.  Most people without RC's aren't going to go page by page inspecting a new book  - but the people with RC's are more likely to do just that and should they find anything at all however minute it will be a black mark against them.  And there is the perception that people with RC's are very hard to please.  Lots of members have had some kind of confrontation with members who have RC's.  It's just a circumstance that automatically sets up a transaction to go badly in some people's minds.  That's why I don't put "Please use plastic" as an RC - because of the  "all RC's are bad" and "people with RC's" can't be satisfied" atmosphere. This is why some, most, or many members turn down all  RC's.  I'd rather take the chance that a book will get rain damaged than miss out on books by having a big  sign on a request that says "YOU MUST AGREE TO THESE CONDITIONS BEFORE PROCEEDING" (or whatever)  and scaring people away before they read further to see what the conditions are.  If it rains when my books arrive there is a good chance they will be damaged...but it doesn't rain more days than not so the odds are in my favor.  It just SEEMS like they aren't when I get a wet book!  ;D

Ruth

I think you can still see who it is. If you look in your transaction archive, I think it lists the book and who it was turned down by, their user name. At least, this is what I remember, but it may be a fuzzy recollection!

Nope, Heather not on a RC turned down, only if they accept and then cancel. On decline of RCs you have no way to see who did it.

I would let it go. You don't know if they were serious or being sarcastic about your RCs. TPTB do not have time to be chasing down people that might eventually break the rules.

That's my RC, too, Pat...

But you know, I've come to realize that if they don't think it's postable, it's saving me the headache in the end of receiving a bad book that I have to mark RWAP.  (I HATE doing RWAP) 

Thanks for the resoibses,    They specifically said - 'it had slight water damage'.   I was just trying to keep someone else with having to deal with something that was specificlaly against PBS rules.  Pat

"Most people without RC's aren't going to go page by page inspecting a new book  - but the people with RC's are more likely to do just that and should they find anything at all however minute it will be a black mark against them. "

Ruth, I respectuflly disagree. I use an RC now ONLY because people are sending me books that are unpostable according to PBS guidelines. I don't inspect them and look for something wrong.  All I want is a book to read gently and repost when I'm done...something that I SHOULD be able to accomplish on this site. My last RWAP had the cover hanging off it and the first few pages torn from the binding by about 1/2 inch. To me and according to PBS unpostable but the sender refused to return my credit because the book was "readable" in its condition. 

Anyhow, I had no RC before I started getting unpostable books.

Lauren

I also dont think it is a good idea to send a message to the PBS Team for someone declining for your RCs. Perhaps the member had gotten the book somewhere else, hadnt read it themselves and checked it carefully before wrapping it, like they are supposed to do. It is good that they found the liquid damage before sending it out.

I don't think the question has to do with generic rejection of the request based on the use of RCs in general, rather specifically instances where the rejection includes expressing that the book does not, in fact, meet PBS conditions. 

I used to use that condition, and always found it interesting when people had no trouble explaining that their books did not meet PBS guidelines.   I did, on those occasions, let PBS know that the member had basically admitted to posting a damaged book.  These were only instances where a potential Sender had rejected my guideline-based condition with a statement such as "There's a stain on the first fifty pages" or "the book has highlighting in it" or "the cover's falling off and the last five pages are running through the dogs digestive tract as I type...". 

If a member simply said that the book didn't meet my conditions, however, there was no specific cause for alarm.  I took it as a tacit rejection based more on principle, or something closer to principle than an issue with the book's condition per the guidelnies.  I figured if there was an admission of inproper posting it would be the same as witnessing that admission in the forums or any other PM.  I think it falls under the same umbrella as proper use of the RWP button: some part of keeping PBS running smoothly involves our participation, though it's not obligatory. 

For my own part i never felt bad about letting PBS know of the potentially offending Senders.  I'm nearly certain that, unless a pattern was evident to PBS, the worst PBS would do is send an email regarding the item in question.

and the last five pages are running through the dogs digestive tract as I type...". 

LOL, James!

This is, clearly, a very "personal opinion" issue.  I think James does hit on the balance of it, though.  If they specifically admit that book has an unpostable issue, I can see contacting TPTB.  However, it is important not to assume there is a problem just because you are declined and your RCs re-state the posting guidelines.  As already mentioned, some people turn down ALL RCs, no matter what.  I have also seen it posted here that some members don't appreciate being "reminded to do the right thing".  It's a safe bet they turn down such RCs even if they aren't in the "Don't deal with ANY" category. 

I use an RC now ONLY because people are sending me books that are unpostable according to PBS guidelines. I don't inspect them and look for something wrong.  All I want is a book to read gently and repost when I'm done...something that I SHOULD be able to accomplish on this site. My last RWAP had the cover hanging off it and the first few pages torn from the binding by about 1/2 inch. To me and according to PBS unpostable but the sender refused to return my credit because the book was "readable" in its condition.  

Lauren, I didn't want you to think that I thought you did that.  I think that's what many people who turn down RC's like yours are thinking - "What if I miss something and they find it?" sort of thinking.   I agree that I've gotten those horrible disasters like you have and I do the RWAP - but it doesn't cure the book or make it postable.  And people are being really stupid if they say their book doesn't meet your (and therefore PBS') conditions.  It's a definite admission of non-compliance.  I would think they would turn it down on the grounds that they don't have the time or desire to deal with any RC's of any manner.  Because some people are like that.  I've considered RC's for a couple of reasons - the ones like yours and for using plastic.  But so many people automatically reject any request with RC's that it isn't good.  I shouldn't mind though, since I already have way too many books to read - probably in my lifetime, literally!!

Pat - I was in a similar situation with a book that was sent to me mistakenly and had "minimal water damage".  And it was minimal.  But it was a new member who sent it so I told him about the problem several times and he insisted on my sending the book back "so he could check it out" after I refused (because of the damage) to send it on to the person who'd ordered it.   But I know that he was going to just send it on.  I held it "hostage" for a while but the confrontation and continuation of the situation was more than I wanted to spend the little time of my life left on this problem.  I just hoped that whoever got it was savvy enough to call him on it, too.  It is frustrrating.

Ruth

PS - I do a more thorough inspection now than I've ever done before because of stains.  Lots of people like to eat and drink while they read - and I don't want food stains in my books to draw pests.  I've lived in places where we couldn't clear the pests out no matter how hard we tried.  I didn't want my current pest-free home to have any more attractants than it already does.  Also molds and mildew are easily trasnmittable to new environments and the books with them aren't always immediately discoverable!    And I don't have any books left from that time in my life for the same reason.

Most people without RC's aren't going to go page by page inspecting a new book  - but the people with RC's are more likely to do just that and should they find anything at all however minute it will be a black mark against them.  And there is the perception that people with RC's are very hard to please. This is a bunch of hog wash. People who think like this are just making up crap to justify their turning down RCs.

I wouldn't let TPTB know about the issue.  I always try to double check books that have been sitting on my shelf for awhile before I click accept.  Since you are asked for a reason when you turn down the request even without conditions (at least sometimes) the person might have been saying "I rechecked this book and discovered water damage."  I would let it go because it's ambigious and TPTB don't get involved in individual swaps.

Melanie you clearly have never had a very bad swap with someone who found all sorts of flaws with a book that you know weren't there when you sent it.  They do happen.  Not often but they do happen.

Melanie, I agree that it's hogwash - but lots of people do turn down RC's and when asked for reasons - they use the general "I don't accept RC's".

So in effect that is just what they're saying - they don't want to be scrutinized and have problems with other members.  It's a hassle lots of people don't want to do.

Ruth

No worries, Ruth!  Just clarifying that not all with RCs are PIA's!  ;)  Though I have to admit that I just removed my RC.  I had 2 books on my WL that were rejected something like 3 times each due to "not meeting my RC".  And my RC just basically said, please don't send books with the covers falling off or pages loose.  I removed it and will just RWAP if anyone is silly enough to send books that are obviously unpostable.

Lauren

There are definitely people who turn down RC's on principle alone, because I got one of them!!  My only RC is an absolutely necessary one to explain the special mailing needs of my military APO address.  It's really more to protect the sender than me (or rather us, as PBS has numerous military-overseas users!)--if they mail a book heavier than a pound without that magic customs form, it will be returned to sender and they'll be out money for nothing... while (I think?) we'll get our credit back and can try again once the book is declared lost.  The person who turned me down actually had me laughing out loud, because they started by saying that they NEVER will accept a book request with ANY kind of RC whatsoever, then they went on to say that they understand why I have one, but they can't possibly make an exception for me because the book requires special handling, and oh by the way did I mention that I never accept books with any RCs?  (Something like that.... but it was just comical watching them trying to dig themselves out of the hole they created for themselves and try to sound principled while still acknowledging that my RC is not at all unreasonable....)

I do not contact TPTB unless there is a huge problem.  They are busy people upgrading this site and keeping us all in line.  They have said they will not intervene in swaps that go wrong.  It's up to us to work it out.

I love RC's, because I don't want to send a book that would not please.   BUT - just as we are allowed to have RC's (I have none myself)  so are we allowed to turn down the request if you have a RC.    I think way to much time goes into worrying about how other people are reacting.   JMO 

I agree, Cozi.  I think a lot of time on PBS is wondering how someone will react.  Especially being on the receiving end of a problem swap.  That's why I always cringe when I hit the RWAP button!

edited to fix spelling.  32 years old, and apparently I can't spell "hit"!