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Topic: Should I give credit for received book?

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Subject: Should I give credit for received book?
Date Posted: 8/1/2010 4:48 PM ET
Member Since: 4/18/2009
Posts: 166
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I ordered a book a couple weeks ago and it timed out and went to the next person.  The sender contacted me a day or two later and apologized and said she had sent the book.  I hadn't ordered another book yet, so I had told her it was alright and I would give her a credit once I received the book. 

I received the book, but it was covered with press n' seal.  Now the book is sticky and the book wasn't in great condition, still postable, but the press n' seal wound up tearing off a tiny part of the spine and it also took off some of the coloring of the paperback cover, making nice white flecks all along the sides. 

Should I still give her a credit?  She didn't mark it mailed and then mailed it with press n' seal.  I can't even put the book on my shelf for fear of it sticking to my other books. 

Date Posted: 8/1/2010 4:58 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2006
Posts: 5,751
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Here's what the help center says-

    • please do not use "Press and Seal". This product contains some type of glue that sticks to the books.
      • If you wrap your book in this and it is then damaged when the package is opened, you will not receive a credit.
      • If you get a book that was wrapped using Press-and-Seal, a product called Goo-Gone will remove the residue from the book cover.

I would copy this portion of the help center comments and explain the damage to the spine and the other damage it caused. Because of the damage it did removing pieces of the cover, you wouldn't be able to use the Goo Gone to take off the adhesive without the Goo Gone seaping into the cover's paper backing, that makes the book unpostable. 

It's a tough lesson for her but she need to know not to use Press and Seal on books.

Date Posted: 8/1/2010 5:09 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,495
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Yep, I'd do the same, send that to her and not mark it received.

If she wants to use press n seal, she needs to wrap the book in tissue paper or something first to protect the covers from the press n seal.

Date Posted: 8/1/2010 9:40 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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ummm, I would contact TPTB about this...just because she did a no-no, does not mean you are allowed to do the same...we have to mark all books received. I do realize that this was never marked mailed but, I would make it legal and go through TPTB.

Date Posted: 8/2/2010 1:13 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,774
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You must mark the book received. "Received with a Problem". You mark it received thru your transaction archive. In the RWAP message describe the damage and ask for your credit back.

It sounds like a new member ... forget to mark it mailed, PLUS used press-n-seal.

You can use Goo Gone (or at least try it, since the book is ruined if the sticky stuff doesn't come off anyway ...) it evaporates from paper without leaving any permanent marks (or, at least, the times that I have gotten a little bit onto the paper, it has). So, if it soaks into the cover from the small spots that are missing the cover paper ... it is likely that the next day you would never be able to tell. It does look oily while it is still wet, but don't give up on it until it has a chance to dry.

Date Posted: 8/2/2010 6:53 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1,442
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So the Help Center says this:

  • If you wrap your book in this and it is then damaged when the package is opened, you will not receive a credit.

(underlining is mine)

If the book is marked "Received with a problem", how is the sender not going to receive their credit?  Does the above 'rule' fall into the situation of "While marking a book RWAP, receiver should send a PM to the sender requesting a credit back [but it is up to the sender to manually return the credit]"?

My confusion stemps from the fact that a similar situation comes into play when you get a request with RC's.  The text with the RC says something to the effect that if your book doesn't meet the conditions, you won't receive a credit.  But the fact is, when the person receives the book, if it doesn't meet their conditions they mark it RWAP (which gives the sender the credit) and then must ask/beg for the credit back.  Sure, if the sender doesn't return the credit the receiver can mark it "Unresolved" but the statement "you will not receive a credit" is misleading.



Last Edited on: 8/2/10 6:54 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/2/2010 8:43 AM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/3/15 5:03 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/2/2010 10:51 AM ET
Member Since: 12/29/2008
Posts: 6,378
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Yeah, that is confusing in the rules - it seems to suggest you don't need to give a credit for a book mailed with press n seal, but the normal process is to mark RWAP - but then of course whether you get your credit back or not depends on the sender.  I'd definitely PM a tour guide.

Date Posted: 8/2/2010 11:01 AM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2008
Posts: 15,690
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In this case, I suggest you contact the Team via the feedback page: http://www.paperbackswap.com/feedback/index.php to get a clarification in the rules. I agree that the you will not receive a credit part is confusing and if it's supposed to mean 'the requestor will have the right to to request their credit back after marking the book RWAP and you must return the credit" then it should say so.

In cases like this when the rules are open to interpretation, we TGs have lively debates because undoubtely some os uf think one way and some others think the opposite and we always settle it by contacting the Team. smiley

Date Posted: 8/2/2010 11:14 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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It says that on all RWAP, but that does not negate the fact that you need to mark books received. The only exceptions to marking books received are if you get 2 copies,  they send a completely wrong book, or you get an emptly wrapper- so no book at all. Making two errors isn't in the exceptions.

You have to mark the book received and then state that the press and wrap damaged the book and you would like your credit back. Because it is their fault they should be returning the credit. If they don't, then I would contact the Team and they may step in and prompt the sender to return the credit



Last Edited on: 8/2/10 11:16 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/2/2010 1:15 PM ET
Member Since: 4/18/2009
Posts: 166
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I did contact a tour guide and had to mark the book received then send a PM explaining the situation and asking for my credit back....

 

Very confusing rules when they seem to contradict. 

Date Posted: 8/2/2010 2:36 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Rachel, you might wish to contact PBS admin directly instead of a Tour Guide.  Several of the above comments were posted by Tour Guides, and they also seem somewhat unclear and curious about this set of circumstances.

Date Posted: 8/2/2010 2:41 PM ET
Member Since: 10/28/2009
Posts: 47
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I would first try working it out with the member.  Let him or her know that Press and Seal is NOT allowed because it damages books.  See if he or she will allow you to return the book and get the credit back because what he or she did ruined the book.  If he or she will not cooperate with you, contact the PBS help team and go from there.  I hope it all works out.

Date Posted: 8/2/2010 7:06 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,774
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 See if he or she will allow you to return the book and get the credit back because what he or she did ruined the book.

Actually, you are never required to return books to the sender, or even to offer to return books to the sender. In the case of sender-damaged books, if the sender wants a book back, they are supposed to offer compensation for the return postage (in addition to the credit refund for the damaged book) by either giving the requestor a SECOND credit to cover the postage or by some other method acceptable to the sender and requestor (maybe mailing a check or mailing the amount needed in postage stamps, etc).

If you offer to send the book back for free, this will just encourage the member who sent the damaged book in the first place to think that s/he will get their damaged books back from other people too, for free.

There are no cases where a credit is automatically refunded to a book requestor for a damaged book. (The only case where you get an automatic credit return as the requestor is when a book is marked lost in the mail. That's it.). For a damaged book, the credit must always be requested back from the sender.
They may or may not refund the credit.
If they don't refund the credit, and you mark the transaction 'Unresolved", it counts as a double black mark against their account.

If they get too many unresolved RWAPs against their account, PBS reviews the account and may suspend or close it. 

PBS will not intervene in the transaction, except in the case where 1. the other member refuses to answer the PM (within 7 days), or 2. the other member is rude to the point where it is a reportable offense in their answer, or 3. there have been some exceptional cases where the sender admits knowingly sending a dmamaged book, and yet they refuse to return the credit. In this rare case, PBS will sometimes intervene, but you cannot count on this, it is at their discretion.



Last Edited on: 8/2/10 7:10 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/3/2010 12:48 AM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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Ok, The Help Center also says "will not receive credit" about taping to a book:  (same section where the Press N Seal info can be found: How To Wrap a Book):

 

Do not apply tape directly to the book! This can damage the book when the package is opened.

  • If you apply tape directly to the book and it is then damaged when the package is opened, you will not receive a credit.

*********************************

However.....Under the section: There is a Problem with a Book I Received:

 If you receive a book with an "official" problem as listed below, you should mark it received with a problem to note this on the sender's record and contact the sender for your credit refund.

also:

Official" problems (Wrong book versions/Inappropriate items, Damaged books, Damaged by USPS books, and books that violate Requestor Conditions) are marked as such during the process of marking the book received (see below for instructions)

 

Taping to a book is listed, specifically, as an Official Problem, Damaged by Sender:

Damaged by Sender

  • This means the book appears to have been unacceptable for swapping at PBS before it was put in the mail
  • This includes books packaged using tape applied to the book if the book is damaged and rendered unrepostable by opening the package.
  • Read more about sender-damaged books here

 

********

You cannot just not mark books received to keep people from getting the credit.   You do have to mark them RWaP and then negotiate getting your credit back.  Certainly using the HC sections that say "will not get credit" should, hopefully!, make getting the credit back easier.

Date Posted: 8/3/2010 12:50 AM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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Since it seems uncertain if anyone actually did contact TPTB, I"m going to do that now and ask them to please look at this thread and see where the confusion lies.   I mention this only so that if I'm the 112th person to send in a feedback, perhaps we can avoid 113. ;-)

Date Posted: 8/3/2010 1:06 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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Usually when asked to look at threads such as these and make a firm decision, TPTB say to use good judgement in each case.  It will be interesting to see what they say here.  I'd agree with the use your own judgement argument.

Date Posted: 8/3/2010 1:27 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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I can't imagine the Team would ever condone not marking a book received because it was damaged. That would completely negate the whole RWAP-damaged by sender process.

Date Posted: 8/3/2010 1:42 AM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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Agreed, Melanie.  I think that section is being mis-read and hopefully it can get cleared up.

The team will say if something is meant to be cut and dried but is being mis-interpreted.  This isn't a "Grey area" like book condition sometimes can be..where using good judgement does come in to play.  No one is debating that Press N Seal = getting your credit back.  The debate is about how to go about that (not mark at all or use RWaP) and certainly TPTB will be able to clear that up.  

Date Posted: 8/3/2010 1:58 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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I agree the two sections can appear to contradict one another.  Thank you Beth for contacting TPTB.  I hope they comment, and am curious as to a clarification.

Date Posted: 8/21/2010 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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Sorry to bump this back up, but I did get a reply about this on Thursday:

the requestor should mark received with a problem and the sender should refund, and if the sender did not refund we should be contacted.  It's important to document problem swaps so that the system can track patterns of problem sending.

So, the book does get marked RWaP and then the refund requested as usual in a RWaP transaction. 

Of course, and this was mentioned by TPTB, this doesn't circumvent the "2 books received because one wasn't marked mailed" issue where you really do not have to mark the extra book received.  However, it's not too likely that *both* things are going to happen with one transaction..surely not often.  At least I hope not, lol.

Laura M. (LMM) - ,
Date Posted: 8/21/2010 10:39 PM ET
Member Since: 12/12/2005
Posts: 524
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But since the sender never marked it as sent, how can it be marked received (WAP or not)?

Date Posted: 8/21/2010 11:16 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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There's a link to mark books from transations received that were marked accepted but not mailed in time in the receiver's Transaction Archive.

Edited to clarify



Last Edited on: 8/21/10 11:21 PM ET - Total times edited: 1