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Topic: Definition of Books

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Subject: Definition of Books
Date Posted: 8/30/2009 10:16 AM ET
Member Since: 4/11/2009
Posts: 7
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I recently ordered three cookbooks, from three different members.  The first I received was an actual cookbook, in rather bad shape, as pages are coming loose from the binding, but it has some good recipes, so I gave the member the credit with no comment..  The second, I would say, it is a stretch to call it a cookbook, but I also gave this member the credit.  The third came yesterday, and is a $2.50 magazine from 1991 that was posted as a paperback.  I am a fairly recent member, and out of the 100 or so books I have posted so far, almost all of them have been books I bought brand new and read once.  I did not pay less than $10 for any of them, and most were more than that.   It seems unfair to me to have to give up a credit for this magazine.  Is this a commom practice for swapping cookbooks?  There is no way I would feel right about reposting this.

Date Posted: 8/30/2009 10:22 AM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2005
Posts: 2,354
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Depends on if it had an ISBN or not.  (If it did, the description has to include page count).

From the help center:

Pamphlets/Booklets/leaflets without ISBNs: NO

  • These sometimes contain advertising; members also complain at having to pay a credit for these.
  • Leaflets = non-children's books with less than 20 pages
  • Booklets = non-children's books with less than 50 pages
  • Leaflet/pamphlets/booklets with ISBNs may be posted
    • if so, the number of pages must be included in the item description.
  • Children's books do not count as booklets or leaflets, even if they are short. 
    • Children's books can be expected to have short pagelengths and the booklet/leaflet designations do not apply.
Date Posted: 8/30/2009 10:37 AM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2009
Posts: 28
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If it is a magazine...not postable.

Magazines: NO

  • These often contain advertising and cannot be sent MediaMail; even if not, the category is banned from PBS
Subject: Definition of Books
Date Posted: 8/30/2009 10:49 AM ET
Member Since: 4/11/2009
Posts: 7
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The front clearly states America's #1 Cookbook Magazine, and it does include an advertisement and coupons for Green Giant mushrooms, and an advertisement for cake mix.  It was mailed first class.  There is a bar code on the back with just the numbers 277701, does not indicate ISBN, so I'm not sure about that issue.   I have never had to RWAP a book before

Date Posted: 8/30/2009 10:50 AM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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Not postable - I would ask for your credit back.  Since you know the member posted a item that is not allowed by the rules, you can contact PBS directly with the information - or add to suspcious postings (red sticky at the top of this forum).

You can mark a book RWAP and you don't have to ask for your credit back.  This way the member knows that is against the rules and it goes on their record with PBS.  That way if there is a pattern with the member sending non-postable books PBS will be able to flag them - referring to your first two books. 

I am sorry you are experiencing this so early in your membership.  I have been lucky - I joined after you but except for one RWAP I have had good swaps.  I hope your future swaps work out better. 

here is the process to follow to obtain your credit.  http://www.paperbackswap.com/help/help_index.php

it is the 6th option up from the bottom of quick tips section.  good luck

Date Posted: 8/30/2009 11:01 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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How was it listed? Does it have the same title/author as what you ordered?  If it doesn't then I wouldn't even mark it received as you did not receive the cookbook you ordered.  There are things posted on PBS that aren't supposed to be and you have to pay attention. People try to post calandars, magazines, music cds and all kinds of things that aren't supposed to be posted here.

If it is a magazine form of what you ordered then I would mark it received with a problem and ask for my credit back.

 

I just wanted to point out since you said you only posted brand new/read once books that were over $10-please keep in mind that a book you order from here might be on it's 3rd owner and not looking brand new anymore.  This is a used book trading site and some of the books you get might be on their last read as a postable book and showing wear.  That does not mean you have to accept obviously unpostable books without a complaint. I just wanted to make sure you didn't have unreasonable expectations of receiving only books that look basically brand new.  Because you will be disappointed if you are.

Subject: Definition of Books
Date Posted: 8/30/2009 11:32 AM ET
Member Since: 4/11/2009
Posts: 7
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I did not mean to come off as sour grapes about paperbackswap.   I think it is amazing, and was doing fine until I got into cookbooks.  I don't expect books to be in like-new condition, but I probably will stay away from cookbooks from now on.  And I feel this kind of posting does a disservice to those who are trying to swap legitimate cookbooks in reasonably good condition.

Subject: Definition of Books
Date Posted: 8/30/2009 11:51 AM ET
Member Since: 4/11/2009
Posts: 7
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Thanks to everyone for your advice.  I marked the book RWAP, but did not ask for my credit back.  I will chalk this up as a lesson learned, and be more careful in the future.

Date Posted: 8/30/2009 12:09 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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Anice - I don't think you came off as sour grapes about paperback swap at all - you encountered some poor swaps so early in your memberhsip. You are frustrated.  You were kind (more so than most) marking  your first 2 books recieved and not asking for your credit.  I understand what you were saying about the $10 comment.  

There is nothing wrong with asking for your credit back if the book is falling apart.  Even a cookbook should have it's spine intact. Personally, I would have marked it RWAP and asked for my credit back.  Cookbooks are allowed to have underlining and such but the sender needs to PM you first.   Senders don't always will give it back - but at least you have asked and it is on record. 

I hope future swaps go better.  I am going to PM you with someone who I have ordered cookbooks from and they were in wonderful shape. 

Date Posted: 8/30/2009 1:33 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2009
Posts: 2,524
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Just making sure you know that you can find out more about a book before ordering (although your case was a little different) by clicking on the More Options tab and then Edit Book Data. You can see things like page count, year published, size of book, etc. if that information is listed.  Maybe someone here has an easier way to find this.  Knowing this info helps me on books like cookbooks or older books.

I just posted & shipped a 8 x 5 spiral bound cookbook about 90 pages I think.  It had an ISBN and great pictures and recipes.  If someone were looking for a large hardbound cookbook though they might have been dissapointed.   But I try to keep the above information edited in on the books on my bookshelf so people can know what they are ordering. Just not sure if everyone knows how to find this info so hope this helps.

 

 

 

Date Posted: 9/1/2009 1:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I didn't think you came out as sour grapes either. I just wanted to point out that soem books will be well loved (worn). So many people come on here expecting the books they receive to be brand new because that's what they send out.  I jsut wanted to make sure you didn't have any unreasonable expectations because a lot of peopel do.  (I've received quite a few RCS asking for only "like-new" books because that's what they send out)

Date Posted: 9/1/2009 2:22 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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If the information that you might want to know isn't on the PBS  "edit data"sheet... try just clicking on the "Buy from AmaZon" button which will take you directly to Amazon's  book listing page for that book and it might have the information you are looking for - like page counts, etc.  Clicking on the Buy from Amazon doesn't mean you are actually buying at that moment.  It's a very helpful link to use sometimes.

Ruth

Date Posted: 9/1/2009 2:37 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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I have found that half.com sometimes has more details about the books (seem more accurate) than Amazon - especially older books.  I just punch in the ISBN on the main page of half.com and then it gives you other versions, details etc about the book.  Another source to look up information

Date Posted: 9/1/2009 3:37 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2005
Posts: 2,354
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Really?  I find Amazon has more older books than half.com

Hmm...but I'm thinking pre-ISBN books.  I don't even bother looking at pre-ISBN books on half.com because they are usually  not there.  The last batch I tried to list of early ISBN werne't either.

Half.com may be more accurate when it has an entry, but it has a much smaller database in my experience.  Probably both of these are due to Amazon allowing some of their big sellers to amend the database.

Date Posted: 9/1/2009 4:29 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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Anice, if the magazine was posted under it's correct ISBN, consider contacting  PBS or the edit team as they may wish to remove it from the system. 

Date Posted: 9/1/2009 4:55 PM ET
Member Since: 2/24/2009
Posts: 160
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Ive went looking for cookbooks and found a ton of these little tiny "booklets" as I call em.  To me these shouldnt cound as a cookbook  since they are basically a mini magazine but thats just me.  When I go to order a cookbook I want an actual hardbound cookbook.

Date Posted: 9/1/2009 5:09 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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Kayote not pre-ISBN - just older books 1980 and up (geeez I feel old).  I am also referring to book images, page count, height, weight, width and thickness.  When editing a book for the data team we can't just go by Amazon's listing - it needs to be verified via the author's website or other websites similar to Amazon.

I didn't realize that Amazon allowed the big sellers to edit the database - no wonder why spec info is so messed up - too many fingers in the cookie jar :)

Anise -sorry for hijacking the thread.  I agree Denise -she should contact PBS on the magazine.

Date Posted: 9/2/2009 12:19 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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Jedi...PBS has a specific definition of pamphlets, which are not postable.  Small cookbooks....have a couple well loved and much used...doesn't make them postable tho :-)

Date Posted: 9/2/2009 12:53 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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In order for those little cookbooks to be postable, if they do not have an ISBN, they must have 50 pgs. The poster is supposed to make sure that they update the listing to make sure that the number of pgs is showing on the listing. (which is visible without going to the "edit data" page) The only thing more that you will see on the edit data page that is not listed on the general data page for a book are the dimensions, but those are not always right, so often misleading.

The main thing to look at is the number of pgs. If that is not showing, try looking up the ISBN if it has one, on Google to see if you can find out how many pgs it has (and how old) but if it is a listing that does not have an ISBN, you should have the number of pgs showing. If it is not, you can always ask the sender in a PM. If they say it has less than 50 you can ask them to cancel the order, and probably even convince PBS to cancel it for you if they won't since they are supposed to add the number of pgs of smaller books when they list it.

ETA: If the item has an ISBN, even tho it is not postable, PBS cannot remove it from the database. The company from which PBS receives their database updates, will add the ISBN back in if it is a legit ISBN. The best that can be done, if it is something that does violate PBS rules (such as cards, coloring bks, calendars, etc) is to tag them as being unpostable according to PBS rules.

Just be sure you are positive the item is unpostable before you tag it. You could get in trouble tagging items which ARE postable as UNPOSTABLE if the do not violate the rules. Hope all that makes sense :)



Last Edited on: 9/2/09 12:56 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/2/2009 1:01 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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You should have marked the one with loose pages RWAP as well, that was an unpostable book in that condition. You don't have to ask for your credit back, but it is important to mark these books appropriately because that is what helps keep the standards of books posted here within the posting guidelines.
Date Posted: 9/2/2009 1:05 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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Sherry - if PBS is notified - can't they have the items removed from the shelves?  



Last Edited on: 9/2/09 1:06 PM ET - Total times edited: 1