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Topic: Disturbing

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Subject: Disturbing
Date Posted: 6/24/2015 6:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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By accident I just came across a very viral web rant from a member who was shut down because PBS believed she may be reselling.  She says she was not, but frankly I could care less. What is important to me is finding out if  we are restricted in the future disposition of books acquired via PBS. Who cares if she is a reseller. If she is a member and gets a book, god bless it is your book. Are there restrictions re books swapped? If so what are they?



Last Edited on: 6/25/15 1:04 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/24/2015 7:43 PM ET
Member Since: 6/29/2007
Posts: 17,091
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Item 15 of the TOU -

Commercial Use Prohibited

  • Any systematic effort to resell ordered items online or in person
Date Posted: 6/24/2015 9:07 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,723
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You can do whatever you want with books you obtain from PBS. There are book sellers who are members in good standing here. The issue is systematically obtaining books here for the SOLE purpose of reselling them. Most books don't have a lot of resale value, the ones that do are either brand new, or out of print, or of a genre that retains more value (especially nonfiction of various types). Members post those types of books here (instead of selling them themselves) with the intention, more or less, of perpetuating the free trading of books to people who are of like mind ... meaning they will, for the most part, read them and repost them. Does that mean that you can't sell a book that you obtained on PBS? Of course not. But if they gather evidence of some type that someone is taking the "good" books systematically, out of PBS and using them to make a personal profit, yes, they will kick that member out.

Last Edited on: 6/24/15 9:08 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/24/2015 10:38 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2013
Posts: 741
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I'm pretty sure there are resellers here.  I get requests where people want books "in new or nearly new condition."  Sure, some could be OCD, but on the other hand...

Date Posted: 6/25/2015 4:11 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,723
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There is lots of reasons to want a "like-new" book. That doesn't necessarily mean that the book will be sold. It also doesn't mean that someone requests all their books with the same conditions applied. If I'm requesting something that I want to give as a gift to someone, I might put more conditions on it than normal but that doesn't mean that I request all, most, or any other books like that.

When you think about the economics of how this site works, it really makes very little sense to suspect that there are a lot of resellers here for the most part. Books here ARE NOT FREE. Someone would have had to either 1. pay postage to mail a book out, or 2. buy a credit, in order to order a "free" book. Not to mention either pay a membership fee or a swap fee to get a book.

So, right away, a book has to be worth more than $2.50 before you make any money at all. If you are going to sell that book on-line, like at Amazon or ebay, you also have to take into account the site fees and/or trading fees that you would have to pay (depending on your account type) but let's say that amounts to at least $1 per book (but I think it's actually more). So, now you are up to $3.50 or you are actually losing money by selling it.

There are not a lot of books traded here that are worth more than $3.50. Honestly. People do post books that are worth more than that, (I do it myself because I can't be bothered with selling them myself instead of just trading them) but usually any books that are worth anything at all can only be obtained by Wish List here anyway (because they are brand new, or hard to find, or out of print, or expensive, or whatever) ... and how reliable is a Wish List as a book obtaining tool to base your business on? Not very.

Book sellers generally have much, much less expensive places to obtain books from.



Last Edited on: 6/25/15 4:15 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/25/2015 7:49 AM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,669
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I wonder how she got caught?

Date Posted: 6/25/2015 9:57 AM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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Anyone remember the cookbook lady? She was pretty vocal on the forums years back, complaining about conditions of the (cook)books she received, and about other members not accepting or complying with her very detailed RC. She had a link to her used cookbook store/website in her profile, her wishlist was filled with cookbook titles, and after some members became suspicious and reported her, the TPTB were apparently able to track the books she received from PBS with the books she had for sale on her website. Her account was closed

I also remember another member who traded a book with a distinct note or signature, and later recognized it in a picture for sale on ebay. She complained to TPTB but was told that occasionally selling a book you receive here is not necessarily against the TOU.

 



Last Edited on: 6/25/15 1:44 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/25/2015 10:03 AM ET
Member Since: 1/24/2015
Posts: 123
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Well said, Sara - I agree 100%. I've sold some of my books before finding PBS. Most were not even eligble for resell, even though they appeared brand new (some were! lol). Others were not worth much at all. I actually had one last box of about 25 books to go out... after doing the math per book compared to the PBS exchange - I never shipped the box and posted them all on PBS.  

I agree, Charles!   Does PBS have a team of book investigators?! lol. Curious...

To be honest, I don't really see the big deal in reselling from PBS. I say this because when I receive a book in great condition, I generally keep it. *gasp! I know, I know... shame on me for not recirculating! But hey, I try to keep my account revolving. And PBS is still making money. Members are still getting credits. There are plenty of books to be had. 

Date Posted: 6/25/2015 10:19 AM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,669
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It sounds like selling a book or two once in a while is not too bad as long as most of your activity is requesting and mailing books to other members.

Date Posted: 6/25/2015 11:47 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 8,200
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It's just part of a TOS. My own personal feelings are, if you agree to something then you should honor it. But I'm weird like that, I knowfrown

 

Date Posted: 6/25/2015 2:54 PM ET
Member Since: 7/23/2005
Posts: 7,314
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"in new or nearly new condition."

I don't have an RC but if I did, it would be similar to this.

I order many books from PBS to send to deployed folk. The books are often placed in an MWR room and shared by many so I really do try to send books in very good to new condition.

There are many reasons for RCs concerning condition - I'd not assume that members who have those RCs are selling PBS books. 

Date Posted: 6/25/2015 5:10 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,567
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I sometimes want a book to 'gift' to one of my daughters so I like it to be in better condition than many of the oft-swapped books here, but I don't have an RC to that effect on my account.

+1 Jo-- books being put out for service members to 'take one, leave one' at USO centers around the world need to not be falling apart due to many reads already.



Last Edited on: 6/25/15 5:12 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/25/2015 9:24 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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Just seemed disturbing to me. Once I "purchase" a book through PBS, seems like I should be able to give it away, throw it away, donate or sell it after I have read it. Thought it was my book but apparently not!

Date Posted: 6/25/2015 10:45 PM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 93
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It is your book and you can do whatever you want with it once you own it. However, what you do with it may affect your ability to be a member of PBS.

Date Posted: 6/26/2015 12:06 AM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,398
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It is fine to give or sell some books. Many folks sell some books to pay for the postage to swap. Many order books to go to schools.

But it is not okay to order books just for resale. Don't order the expensive out of print book just to make a profit. It is a very grey line between these two positions. But could we at least be polite enough to not list the website where you make a profit off of folks who want to share books?

Date Posted: 6/26/2015 7:13 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,327
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The thing that's prohibited is obtaining books for the purpose of reselling. My understanding is that it would put the site in a different tax category, if it was providing books for resale, but I'm not positive that that's the reason. It might make the site a distributor, and responsible for collecting sales tax.

Date Posted: 6/26/2015 11:26 AM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,263
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I would have no problem whatsoever for members to sell books that have hundreds in the system. Basically the book IS yours to do as you want with it. But members who use PBS exclusively to obtain books for resale is not only against the rules, but it affects all of us one way or another.

Date Posted: 6/26/2015 1:07 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,723
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I would have no problem whatsoever for members to sell books that have hundreds in the system.

Books that have hundreds in the system here are the exact same books that have hundreds of copies available on Amazon for 1 penny. Plus they are the exact same books that you can buy at any library sale on the last day for $1 a bag. Or $2 a bag.

Those are not the ones that people try to obtain here to sell ...

Date Posted: 6/26/2015 11:18 PM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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I would have no problem whatsoever for members to sell books that have hundreds in the system.

Sara, I think that Sally was referring to members who have hundreds of books in the system and not to books that have hundreds of copies in the system. But, the statement is ambiguous and can be read either way.



Last Edited on: 6/26/15 11:20 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/27/2015 2:45 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,723
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Yup, that makes sense too.

I don't know, having members have a large shelf full of Nora Roberts and John Grisham while selling off brand new WL books that they got here wouldn't really sit well with me. Not that I would know anyway what people do with their books. But I think most members here at least like to have the illusion that when they send out the highly wanted, more valuable books, that their kindness flows on to other members instead of being profitized.

Date Posted: 6/27/2015 10:20 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,263
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What I was referring to was members taking books, with hundreds available, to a used book store for credit. Or selling at a flea market or any venue that they wish, but by selling they are not depriving another member of a book. No different than donating books that have so many in the system that I am not willing to store until it gets requested. It is another matter to acquire books via PBS, like WL books, to sell. Where I draw the line is selling a book gotten via PBS that has other PBS members waiting for it.

Sorry my earlier post wasn't clearer.

Date Posted: 6/28/2015 5:31 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2009
Posts: 4,581
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Jo that's a good cause and totally worth using that rc, you should!  I personally use this RC sometimes ""in new or like new condition." Now I don't always use it but there are a lot of books I put on my wl for the express purposed of giving it to my 12 yr old Niece.  Sometimes I just want her to have a good copy to start out with.  I know its going to get read and shoved in small spaces, and tracked all over the place with her so I like it to be a nice copy to start out with.  I don't want her to be half way through it and she's ripped it in half.  Plus she re-reads a lot so I like to give her copies I know will hold up for a while.  Its my credit, I've sent out the book and earned that credit and I feel that I should be able to ask occasionally for a copy in a certain condition.  Now I don't do this on all of my books but sometimes you just need to.

There have been a few I've know since becoming a member here who have gotten caught reselling.   Most of them had been vocal about conditions of books, and had a link to a blog that had a link to there store, or something like that!  I think there was one who got caught asking for a book in a certain condition to use for her store and got complained on.  It happens.  

Personally I buy new books knowing that I'm putting a new one into the system.  Sometimes I purchase a book for a friend on here knowing its going to make it back into the system.  So I'd hate to send it to someone who I know is going to sell it.  I know there are people on here to who do take a book out meaning to keep it, but I have hopes that in time purges will happen and books make there way back in eventually!  


 

Date Posted: 6/28/2015 7:42 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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I just finished a recently released hardcover that was gratefully received from a PBS member. Went to list it and discovered it is not on auto request and via another post found I can not ask in the bazaar if anyone with auto request on wants it. Trying to keep in in the system but the system does not seem to want it. I am not willing to go the nonauto route because of all the repeated time outs or RCs, especially when there is no mechanism to remove the book once it is posted. Could be hanging out there for weeks and it is summer and I do go away. Too bad there is not an ability to offer it to next with auto request. Since there is  not, it will go to the library even though 17 members are wishing and likely at least one of them has auto request on.

Date Posted: 6/28/2015 10:02 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 8,200
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I'm sure the library would like it! Around me, they have lots of library sales so donations are welcome. If they can't sell it, they'll recycle them. Library sales are fun but the first day is always on the workweek and it gets picked over by the time I get there
Date Posted: 6/28/2015 11:19 AM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2006
Posts: 4,314
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Mary, if you want to go to the trouble, you CAN post your book (safely) just to see if there are any auto-requests.  You have to put your shelf on vacation hold, post your book and put it on hold, then reactivate your shelf. You can then remove the hold or remove the book... 

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