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Topic: ex. library books a problem?

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Subject: ex. library books a problem?
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:22 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2005
Posts: 44
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I have never put conditions on my requests for fear I'd miss out on some good books and I have never really had a problem getting ex. library books unless I plan on using a book for a gift, and then I usually PM the sender before they mail it to make sure it is in good condition.  Most of the time, when a book is an ex. library book the sender has e-mailed me asking if I mind that it is, and I do the same with my books, just as a courtesy.   I was very disappointed recently, however when a box of book trade came in the mail and ALL 7 children's books were ex. library with so many markings to the point where I actually feel uncomfortable reposting them.  The 7 books I sent were like new so I did e-mail the member and suggest she let other box traders know if all the books are ex. library and that I wouldn't have traded if I'd known they were all ex. library. She got all snotty and said that is what requestor conditions are for and that compared to what most members sent, her books were excellent.  I begged to disagree on that count and mentioned that I'd done over 200 box trades and ordered over 1000 books and had always been pleased except for two trades, (and hers was one of those) and always had been asked about ex. library and thought she should just consider it for future trades. She e-mailed and said I am just one of "those people who can never be pleased" . (despite the fact that I have been pleased 99.9% of the time!!)   I'm just going to let it go but was wondering about other's thoughts.  Do you let people know when a book is ex. library?  Is it out of line to expect to be notified if 7 out of 7 ARE ex. library?

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:27 AM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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because ex-library books are permitted a person does not have to PM the receiver to make sure this is ok.  If it is an issue you can set up a requestor condition that you don't want ex-library or that they be in good condition.

those that PM'd you or when you PM'd others was a courtesy but wasn't required

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:29 AM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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from the Help Docs

 

I received a library book! Is this allowed?

Yes, decirculated library books may be swapped at PBS.

  • Ex-library books often have stamps inside or on the binding: this is fine.  

If you do not wish to receive ex-library books, you should put this into your Requestor Conditions in your Account Settings.

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:36 AM ET
Member Since: 6/20/2007
Posts: 4,979
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I agree with Leslie.  Library books are postable and thus there is no need for notification ahead of time.  I have swapped and received ex-library books without issue, and neither I nor the other swappers have PMd ahead of time about them.  It sounds to me like you should add RCs politely declining ex-library books.

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:38 AM ET
Member Since: 7/16/2006
Posts: 198
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I do not let people know if the book I am sending is an ex library book - I do agree that is the reason we have RCs. However, you said these books have lots of markings - that makes them unpostable, whether they are library books or not. I am so sorry you got such a bum deal. Doesn't sound like she is going to try and make things right, does it? =(

Subject: Yes, I realize the rules
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:40 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2005
Posts: 44
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Yes, I am fully aware of the rules and knew that ex. library books were allowed.  My question is more of wanting others opinions~

Do YOU as a courtesy, let people know a book is an ex. library?

Would YOU be more likely to consider letting someone know if ALL 7 books you were sending were ex. library?

My point in e-mailing this person in the first place is that I thought she should consider letting future traders know if ALL of the books were ex. library.  That was my only point in e-mailing her when I got the books, along with letting her know they were recieved.

The markings were library markings, not on the pages but all  over the cover. Some libraries mark them up more than others. I am amazed sometimes how much a library might mark up books with extra stickers, tape on bindings, etc.  I guess I would just be uncomfortable reposting them after my daughter reads them. I'll probably just donate them.  Or offer them under Book Bazaar as 7 for 1 credit or something.

thanks for insight.

Mary



Last Edited on: 7/16/08 10:42 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:42 AM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Since I don't BOB I don't know all the rules, but you mentioned that there were a lot of marks.  Do you mean pen/pencil/crayon type marks, like the book has been written in?  Doesn't that make a book unpostable, or are the rules different for BOB's?

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:49 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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I never notify a receiver if it is an ex-library book. It sets people up with the expectation that an e-mail is required on them. They are postable so IMO no notification should be necessary.

She did not have to get rude, but I probably would have gotten annoyed too, being told I had to PM before sending books when I should not have too. I expect ANY expectations that are not defined by the rules to be spelled out in RCs. 

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 10:59 AM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2007
Posts: 369
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these books have lots of markings - that makes them unpostable

I disagree.  Library markings are library markings and the guidelines say they're acceptable. 

I actually once got a request from someone detailing the number and type of library markings they'd accept.  One sticker on the spine, a plastic/mylar cover over the dustjacket was fine as long as it had no damage, return-date stamps on one page only, no other markings.  Are you kidding me?  I turned them down because my book had a cardsleeve.  Not that the cardsleeve was probably a problem, I just didn't trust anyone whose conditions are that specific.

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 11:05 AM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 5,034
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In terms of subjective equality, the trade was unequal... but... all were of PBS postable standards and thus an equal trade.  When I first started with PBS, I would notify folks if the book I was sending was ex-Library, but don't do this now. 

I would say that you were overwhelmed by the sheer number of library books and their marking, which is understandable.  However, the sender didn't do anything wrong by PBS standards.  Yes, it would have been nice to know about the library condition, but that is only a courtesy some folks do, and not a PBS requirement.  However, in my opinion, the sender should have just responded with the guidelines and not made rude personal comments.

 

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 11:09 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I go to library sales myself and send former library books to members many times.  And no, I don't usually message in advance and let people know they're getting a former library book.  That said, I'm also extra-careful when I'm picking up books at a library sale or UBS.  I usually only get books that are in really good condition & meet all of the PBS posting rules, unless it's a collectible & something I really want for myself.  I hate stickers of any kind on books, so I check to see if they can be easily removed with an adhesive remover.  Discard/withdrawal stamps and remainder marks are usually unavoidable, so I don't worry about those.  Many UBS books have them anyway, and as far as I'm concerned, it's not about where the book came from, it's all about the condition it's in.  I used to sit and sand stamps off for hours on end, but I soon figured out it was too labor intensive to spend two weeks sanding library & UBS stamps off of 50+ books, so I don't do that anymore.  I do clean all of my used books thoroughly and make sure they look nice before I put them on my shelf.  I got really lucky at my last library sale, and everything I bought looked either new or was in very good condition, so it only took me a couple of days to get them ready to post. 

The fact of the matter is, some people just don't care enough to make sure they're only sending out books that meet all of the posting guidelines, and they would probably send out unacceptable books anyway, whether they were former library copies, came from a UBS or thrift store, or were something they bought new once upon a time.  Knowing in advance that you're receiving former library books isn't a guarantee of anything one way or the other.  Books being sent out in unacceptable condition is 100% the fault of the sender, and where it came from is incidental.  I have actually had to turn down one request because the book in question was a former library copy, and the requestor specifically had it in their conditions that they didn't want those.  The funny (or sad, as the case may be) thing was, it didn't look like it had ever been opened; except for the library stamp & remainder mark on it, it looked like a brand new book:P

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 11:54 AM ET
Member Since: 7/16/2006
Posts: 198
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I disagree.  Library markings are library markings and the guidelines say they're acceptable.

I thought the OP meant that there were markings on the pages - as in crayon, pencil, etc. I get a lot of kids books at FOL sales that are unpostable here for that reason. My 18 month old doesn't care, but I would never dream of posting them here. That was my first thought If the markings are just library markings, then yeah, absolutely postable. Even if the library chooses to put their markings and stickers in less than ideal places, they are still postable per PBS guidelines.

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 12:05 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 5/19/10 9:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 12:14 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2008
Posts: 428
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When the sender follows the rules and sends me the book I requested in the condition required by PBS, I am estatic. I do not expect them to tell me that a book is from a library, even if it is. If they do PM me to say it's a former library book, that's a bonus. But, I'm quite happy with just the basics.

On the flip side, I never tell anyone where the books came from. I do have a number of former library books. They all meet the PBS guidelines. Unless I'm asked via the RC or a PM, I don't bother.

As to the original sender getting rude, look at it from her point of view. She was sending books that met the club's guidelines. She followed the rules to the letter. And, she was told that she had to do more. When she disagreed, she was told that she should change her entire method of trading despite the fact that she had done everything right. I would have gotten a bit rude myself.

Where would it stop? You want to be told if it's a former library book. Maybe someone else wants to know if it's from a used book store. Another person wants to know if it's a hardback without a cover. Another wants to know when there's  a name written inside the front cover.

All are acceptable by PBS guidelines. If explanation of conditions become required, it's really going to slow down trades.

Subject: appreciate your comments
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 12:16 PM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2005
Posts: 44
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I appreciate all your comments.  I still will not repost these but will probably offer them at a reduced credit or donate them. I keep looking at them and I just would not feel comfortable sending them for one credit each or even a box exchange.  I will likely continue to let people know if a book I am offering is an ex. library copy, because occasionally a member wants to use a book as a gift (they usually ask then, if it is in gift-giving condition) It isn't that I won't accept ex. library so I certainly don't want to list that as a condition, and yes, I was probably just overwhelmed with the sheer number of ex. library.

thanks again for your insight,

Mary

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 3:45 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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Mary, I do not PM someone and let them know if I am sending an ex-library book (not that I usually have those to send) and I wouldn't think twice about it because they are allowed and if they are in postable condition that is what matters.

why do you not think you should get a credit for each book?  You can do what you like since the books are now yours but I personally wouldn't think twice about posting them as long as they are in postable condition.



Last Edited on: 7/16/08 3:48 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 5:01 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 82
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I didn't think I had a problem with ex-library books until recently.

I don't really like dustcovers or card slots or all of the extraneous markings, but I understand that until I make a RC, I may get ex-libs. What I really hate is when I attempt to remove the plastic cover from my book, especially on children's hardcovers, especially if it has been glued on (ugh), I end up damaging the book most of the time.

So, I'm either stuck with library plastic around my book which I hate and other library stamps that distract me, or I'm stuck with a damaged book. I wouldn't then feel right about reposting it.

I would be pretty upset if I received 7 of 7 ex-libs. I personally would have shot out a courtesy pm.



Last Edited on: 7/16/08 5:03 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 5:09 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,599
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Do YOU as a courtesy, let people know a book is an ex. library? No, I don't. Most of the books on my shelf come from my FOL sales and are almost exclusively ex-library. I don't PM because they are acceptable by PBS guidelines, and if you DO send a PM then you're 'stuck' waiting for the person to reply. Sometimes people reply, sometimes not...then, when the date to mail the book comes, what do you do? Send it, or not? And what if they say, "No, I'd rather not have it" AFTER you've sent it? It can just create all sorts of sticky situations that could be averted if people who have special wants/needs above and beyond the PBS guidelines would make them actual RCs.

Would YOU be more likely to consider letting someone know if ALL 7 books you were sending were ex. library? I no longer do the BOB thing, but again, no...I wouldn't. Any book acceptable by PBS general posting guidelines is acceptable for a BOB trade, so unless the person had a requestor condition forbidding ex-library books, I wouldn't even think twice about sending them. (And of course if they DID have that RC, I'd then decline and say why.)

Cheryl

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 5:21 PM ET
Member Since: 12/21/2007
Posts: 1,642
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I'm extremely grateful for ex-library books. I've received 2 wishlisted books that were ex-library books and I doubt I would have ever gotten them had someone not bought them at a library sale.

When I finish reading them both and they are posted here, I won't be PM'ing the person to let them know they are ex-library books. They are both in excellent condition and totally postable by PBS standards.

If, of course, the person has a RC stating they do not want ex-library books and the book they request is an ex-library book, I decline sending to them.

 

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 5:41 PM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,714
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Ex-library books are USUALLY fine. However I did have a ex-lib copy once  that had withdrawn stamps all over the text pages - which does make it unpostable. I actually verified this with the site management.

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 6:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,599
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Barbara, I hear you! I just got a book recently that sat on my wishlist for AGES...I happened to do a quick search on that author and found an "alternative version" listed in the system and quickly ordered it--it was a library binding copy...I really never thought I'd get it, but I did, and it's because someone posted an ex-library book.

I have turned down requests a few times where there was a "No ex-library book" RC for books that were virtually brand-new. I literally couldn't tell that anyone had ever opened the book! One of the reasons libraries withdraw books is if they order a bunch of copies expecting it to be popular I guess, and then no one checks it out. In that case it really was the requestor's loss...but people have different reasons for not wanting ex-lib. books and that certainly is their right to specify.

And yes, Bren--ex-library books have to meet other PBS posting guidelines, so if they have stamped stuff all over the pages inside, then that would make them unpostable the same as if someone had stamped their name or written all over the inside pages of the book. My library system just draws a green marker line through the barcode on the front of the book when it's withdrawn.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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You know, I thought about this thread today, and a couple of things did sort of occur to me.  First, this was a BOB swap, right?  I realize this is Monday morning quarterbacking, but just as my own personal BOB policy - I never accept a BOB swap over one or two books without first opening a dialogue with the boxer I'm swapping with.  A lot of the nice ladies (I read & swap mostly romance:P) I usually swap with are on my buddy list & we've traded before, but with somebody I don't "know", 7 books is a sizeable trade, IMO, and you have that leisure time - that is to say, you don't have a mailing deadline, etc. and communication is as quick and easy as clicking on that PM button while you have that swap open in front of you - and you should make the most of it & not get in a hurry to get the swap settled and the books in the mail.  Not that I'm being critical of anybody who doesn't take full advantage of the time & opportunity to communicate a little & discuss their BOB swaps or anything, but given that it's just a less urgent process and you don't have the deadlines, it's really an excellent opportunity to just toss into an inbox dialogue a question or two about their books.  Not that you have conditions, but you want copies of this & that for a collection, or your kid's room, and blah-blah-blah.  Any kind of innocuous chit-chat that gets the person on the other end of that swap thinking about what they're sending you.  Most people, or rather most people that I know through PBS, would probably mention the fact that all 7 were ex-library books somewhere in that dialogue.  And not that I think that would always work, but from what you've said about these books, Mary, I really get the impression that postable or not, they were probably a little on the ugly side:P  I would just say that most - but definitely not all - people tend to think more about things like sending someone ugly books, that while they may still be acceptable within the PBS posting guidlines, they probably would be less than thrilled to have received themselves.  In other words, the less impersonal a transaction is, the more most people tend to want to make it pleasant & satisfying on both ends.  Anyway, just MHO, so take it as such.

Subject: Yep, Kim, you got it!
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 7:54 PM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2005
Posts: 44
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Kim, that might be it in a nutshell~ they were kind of "ugly"!  Were I to get 1 ex. library (and as I said, I normally don't mind ex.library except the books I am trying to get for someone else or for a keeper on my shelf) or maybe even 2 ex. library I would not have minded.  Guess it was just a shock to my system to see all 7 were ex. library with much more library markings than I am used to seeing and covered in a thick plastic that I know protects the cover but isn't removable and was folded here and there~ just kind of ugly.  I do have high standards for the books I post. If a cover has a big crease, I e-mail first to let them know, and I don't post beat-up books at all.  I have never had a problem hearing back from the person after PM'ing them and always they have appreciated my asking if they minded.  I have been so pleased with almost ALL the trades I have gotten. I just love this site.  I have also gotten beautiful books I used for my children (all bookworms) for Christmas.  It sure saves this homeschooling mom some money.  While I didn't expect these books to be gift-worthy ( I never expect it, am pleasantly surprised when it happens) it was a dissapointment to see all 7 were ex. library.  But all of you are right~ they were PB swap worthy and I should just forget about it.

I won't be reposting them, however.  They don't meet my standards for posting, even if they actually fit PBS standards.

thanks again,

Mary

Date Posted: 7/16/2008 8:09 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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And that's really as much as you can do, Mary.  I do feel you on this one.  I have that "ugly" standard myself.  I've looked at books I had before posting them and just thought "bleh, that's one ugly book.", and tossed it into the donation bin, because I wouldn't want to get it myself:P  I've gotten my share of ugly books too, so I know how that feels, and I imagine I wouldn't be a happy camper either after getting an entire 7 book BOB of them.  That sounds like a total bummer to me.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 7/16/2008 11:25 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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I'm one of those "chatty" types, and always pm people about anything unusual about my books, even if they are technically postable.  Library books, stickers, inscriptions, clipped corners, etc.  all will prompt a courtesy email from me, even though most of the time people are fine with the book ideosyncracies.  I wouldn't be happy to receive a box full of ex-library books if I wasn't expecting ex-library so I have a condition to PM me if books are ex-library.  I am willing to accept some ex-library books. (Of course, I risk automatic turndown of a book I want just because I have requestor conditions or because some folks just don't like to send PMs. (My RCs have my name/nickname so people don't have to accept the request before PM'g me, and I try to answer all PMs quickly, but still, there are those members out there that don't send PMs just on their general principals.)



Last Edited on: 7/16/08 11:34 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
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