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Topic: extra conditions to be met

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Subject: extra conditions to be met
Date Posted: 5/9/2008 6:29 PM ET
Member Since: 4/10/2008
Posts: 1
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Almost half of the requests I've had came with extra requirements, some of them quite onerous, dealing with a book in perfect condition and things like that. Worst is that if the person doesn't like the book, I don't get credit. So I pay the postage and lose the book and all its future swaps because someone wanted a perfect book?

Some demand no scent of smoke, which is quite difficult to guarantee. I can say I cannot smell smoke, but what if they are supersensitive and say they detected smoke? Perhaps their mail delivery person smokes, I don't know.

If my books meet the requirements to post in PBE, and they all do, then they should be acceptable in PBE.

I have taken to automatically saying no to all books with extra conditions. I am curious, though. Do most people take the chance that the person will allow them to be credited? Has anyone shipped a book to an extra requirement person and lost credit because the extra requirement perosn was too fussy?

Date Posted: 5/9/2008 6:39 PM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2006
Posts: 1,956
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Tom, you are mistaken.  You will get your credit even if the person reports a problem.  It is then your option whether to refund.  Most members who have a smoking condition are okay as long as you don't smoke in your home and your books don't reek of smoke.  

Has it really been almost 1/2?  I've mailed more than three hundred books, and I think I've only had a couple dozen with conditions.  I've also never had a problem/complaint.  If your book meets the condition, you should mail it. If not, you shouldn't mail it. It really doesn't have to be that difficult.  Most people are honest.

Subject: I agree
Date Posted: 5/9/2008 6:48 PM ET
Member Since: 6/6/2007
Posts: 53
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I understand perfectly your frustration it seems my last 8 requests were for books from a non smoking home. I am a non-smoking home, but my books are 99 percent of the time used and given to me or traded for on here and I dont have that condition. So I cant guarantee they have never been in a smoking home. I like the request I got the last time.It said "I am not willing to accept a book that is currently in a smoking home" I think that was reasonable, and I sent the book. I cant tell if they have been in a smoking home or not.  I have just been trying to pm the requestor most of the time. But I just really hope people understand these are USED books.

 

Date Posted: 5/9/2008 6:51 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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I would venture to say that most books sent to people with conditions get accepted with no problems. If your book meets the conditions and they are not subjective (like smells or amount of wear) then I say go ahead and send it. If a person receives a book they are required to marked it as such and you get your credit at that time. They must ask for it back. The system will not automatically withhold a credit from you. If you met their conditions, you do not need to return it.

Many of the RCs aren't even being fussy, they are just restating the PBS site rules because they have received too many books that do not meet the site rules. The more fussy and subjective ones, a lot of people will turn down. If I get a "like-new" condition on an older book, I won't send it. If I get it on a book that looks brand new I will send it and if I ever got a complaint I just would not return the credit. I haven't seen a no scent of smoke RC, but I would probably turn that down even though I cannot take cig smell myself. I have a no current smoking enviro RC and if I received a book that smelled and was told that their enviro was clean but their mail person smoked, I would accept that answer and not insist on getting a credit back. I would probably suggest that they wrap in plastic to keep the smell out of the book though.

Some people do automatically turn down all RCs, that is an option. I say the site allows them and if my book meets them, why deny myself a credit? It may seems at time like someone is being overly picky, but most people around here are good traders.

If you are turning RC down, please be polite. Just say the book doesn't meet conditions and move on. If an RC is unclear, politely let the person know that you had a hard time understanding them.  Most of us with RCs accept that some people don't want to deal with them, but don't need a lecture on how fussy we are.

Date Posted: 5/9/2008 8:06 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2005
Posts: 2,354
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I'm amazed. I rarely see a condition request.   I think you've just had an odd run.  I'm always surprised when a condition pops up because it's uncommon.  Most of them seem reasonable to me--every now and then I'll see one that's a bit over the top.

Date Posted: 5/9/2008 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 7/23/2005
Posts: 7,354
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The only conditions I automatically turn down are the ones for smoking and pets.  Only because I smoke and have pets.  I try to work with all other conditions, but if they're over the top (and only a few have been) I decline the request.

My credit has never been withheld and I've only had one complaint when I first joined--- which was resolved.

I do understand your frustration though.... Holy Moly!  You've had a run on RCs!

 

 

Date Posted: 5/9/2008 8:56 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,129
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I have to say that I'm seeing more conditions in the last few months--my first year here I probably  got one or two, but the last two months I've seen 7-8 orders with RCs.  I also will read the conditions and send books if they fit.  I will refuse a subjective one if I'm not positive that my book fits it. 

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 5/9/2008 9:18 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Most of the RCs I've had (and I've only had a few out of the many trades I've done) were reasonable, and I accepted and have not had a problem.

(I personally have an RC that may bug some people, which is that I ask them to PM me first if it is a Bookcrossing or Library book because if it is a book for my "keeper" shelf, then I don't want those, but if it is a book for my TBR pile for later swapping, then I would want it.  I include my name/nickname in my RCs so people don't have to accept the request in order to PM me, and I really do try to stay on top of all my PMs and answer them quickly, but still, some people just don't like to PM and will refuse me just because of my RC request.  And I also have my RC listed in my profile, in case people trying to PM me happen to look at my profile before they decide.)

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 5/9/2008 11:06 PM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
Posts: 12,412
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I think I have only turned down maybe 3 or 4 requests with conditions in the 2.5 years I have been here. 

Date Posted: 5/10/2008 6:36 AM ET
Member Since: 10/20/2007
Posts: 1,680
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Last Edited on: 5/10/08 6:37 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/10/2008 9:38 AM ET
Member Since: 10/16/2007
Posts: 1,180
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Tom I hear your frustration.  When RCs pop up for a book request of mine, I will have a little jolt of worry before reading even though I am confident my books meet PBS guidelines as well.  The most common I have seen is no smoking and no pets which I don't have to worry about either and will accept. 

After reading some of the forums though it sounds like some members are very particular about books and it worries me to mail a book not necessarily for the potential loss of credit but the hassle/confrontation some people have had when dealing with an unagreeable swap.  This is a used book swap and not all the books can be ideal.  If it was me and I wanted a book for a keeper or to display, I would buy it new.   

I have not had someone re-state PBS guidlelines in their RC but I have heard some do as results of bad swaps. I find those insulting to the 98% of people who follow the guidelines.  I would deny that RC not knowing if the person was a good swapper that had been burned or someone who likes to stir up trouble. 

I think the general concensus is members have the right to have RCs and the right to deny them. 

Just my 2 cents. 

Date Posted: 5/10/2008 9:42 AM ET
Member Since: 10/21/2007
Posts: 3,430
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I have RCs (not currently in a smoking home), and I have never had to report a problem that the book didn't meet my RCs.  The problems I've reported are water damage, stained, and wrong ISBN (received mass market instead of trade). 

Date Posted: 5/10/2008 10:19 AM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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as Danielle said, you will NOT lose a credit when sending a book.  Once they mark it received (even with a problem) you will receive the credit.  It will then be between the two of you if you feel like you should return the book.

most people with the smoking condition are asking for the book to currently not be in a smoking environment.  If you do not smoke and no one else in your house smokes, then 99% of the time it should be fine to send.  If their carrier smokes (and I think it is Bren's that is a chain smoker) they will know that their book will arrive smelling like smoke and will air it out.

It is your choice and right to turn down requests that have RC but read what the RC is before declining.  I know I have one that asks for no books in a currently smoking household...so if you don't smoke and the book is in good condition (meets PBS rules) I want your book!  I have another RC on there but it is for a specific book because it is for my keeper shelf.  I stirred the pot with that one with one member here who had posted a pb as a hb and then didn't like it that I had RC!

Date Posted: 5/10/2008 12:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Here are the RCS I turn down:

            Any that ask me to accept and them PM them with a book description-not going there

             Any that ask me to sniff the book and provide a history of where the book has been-smell is too subjective

             Any that are basically asking for a brand-new never read book-um hello it's a used book site

I accept ones that just say currently from a non-smoking home, ones that just remind to make sure it meets PBS guidelines, ones that say they only want unabridge audios (if mine's unabridged) and one's that want a dust jacket on hardbacks (if I have the dust jacket). 

 

Date Posted: 5/10/2008 12:48 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 2/3/10 9:42 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/10/2008 1:02 PM ET
Member Since: 10/3/2006
Posts: 638
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If conditions seem unreasonable, I turn them down.  I think  that's happened twice.  The other times, they were for smoking, not a problem, or hardcovers with dustjackets, also not generally a problem.  I have conditions about smoky smelling books, as the smell bothers me.  I've had a few turn downs from smokers, and that's fine.  I'd rather they turn them down, TBH.  No one has ever been snarky or mean, but them my conditions aren't worded to sound nasty, nor are they unreasonable, IMO.



Last Edited on: 5/10/08 1:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/10/2008 1:22 PM ET
Member Since: 1/13/2005
Posts: 2,317
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I seem to get requests with conditions in spurts -- I won't see one for a long time, then I'll get several.  I turn them down only if 1) I know the book doesn't meet the condition, or 2) the condition is vague enough that I'm looking at the book thinking, "Hmm, well, does it fit or doesn't it." 

I figure even a PM isn't going to help the situation in that case, because my words to describe the book may not convey the correct impression on the other end -- my "slightly worn" may be completely different than their "slightly worn" and besides, I'm just not going to mess with it to that degree.  I don't mind the conditions, tho, because I think that it actually increases the number of swaps -- people who wouldn't be able to participate due to allergies and other health conditions can now do so, so more books are moving around the system, and giving us all more opportunities to exchange them.

Date Posted: 5/10/2008 4:34 PM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2006
Posts: 1,956
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I have not had someone re-state PBS guidlelines in their RC but I have heard some do as results of bad swaps. I find those insulting to the 98% of people who follow the guidelines.

I'm really sorry you feel that way.  I assure you, we don't do it to be difficult or picky.  In fact, I really try to express that in my condition itself, which reads like this:

The only condition I have is that books sent to me meet Paperback Swap (PBS) condition guidelines: 

  • No damage at all from water or other liquid
  • Not soiled
  • No stains
  • No moldno highlighting, underlining or writing on text pages
  • Binding: Must be intact, with no separation* on the inside or outside of the book...

     * This means that you cannot see the spine when you look through the pages of the book.

    You should not have to click that you cannot meet this condition, because if your book does not meet the PBS conditions, they should not be posted here - to me or anyone else.

     I promise I'm not picky.  If you book meets the club guidelines I will be thrilled to get it and very thankful!  I know this request sounds absurd to those of you who follow the rules, but I've received several books lately with wavey pages from water damage or books where you could see the spine through the pages on the inside of the book.

    Perhaps you may change your opinion once received a few more books, and the books that clearly don't meet the guidelines start rolling in.  As Cindy said, there are a lot of members that don't read the rules.   I've even been declied by someone who typed that they could not meet my condtions...

     

    Edited because my spacing is so wonky, but I can't seem to fix it..

     

     



  • Last Edited on: 5/10/08 4:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 4
    Date Posted: 5/10/2008 6:44 PM ET
    Member Since: 9/23/2006
    Posts: 527
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    I have noticed a lot more requester conditions lately, as I've recieved many books with extensive water damage I'm wondering if it's a response to those members (which I know are in the far minority!) that use PBS as a dumping ground for books they can't get any money from. It's mainly from books from a smoke-free house, which I understand as I have an allergy to cigarette smoke as well- I think that we can put warnings for allergies is great and very, very important for this site.

    However, I recently got a request that literally asked that the book not have "any creases on the spine" and outlined that pretty much the book must be in new condition. That puts me off- we all want books in fabulous condition, but as long as the books fits under guidelines THIS IS A USED BOOK SITE. It's just greedy and short-sighted to have that outlook- obviously it's their right, I just don't see the point in participating in a used book swap if you'll only enjoy new, perfect books. I always turn these down, because most of my books do have light creasing since they were read by a human being, and usually the super picky will almost always find fault and want their credit back. I agree with the other posters as well- it's very subjective to each person what a "great" condition book would be used. I have no problem with reasonable requests, ones like this just rub me the wrong way. Again, it's their choice and I just turn them down... it's just my pet peeve. :)



    Last Edited on: 5/10/08 6:46 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
    Date Posted: 5/10/2008 7:19 PM ET
    Member Since: 10/16/2007
    Posts: 1,180
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    I promise I'm not picky.  If you book meets the club guidelines I will be thrilled to get it and very thankful!  I know this request sounds absurd to those of you who follow the rules, but I've received several books lately with wavey pages from water damage or books where you could see the spine through the pages on the inside of the book

    Danielle, I like your RC with this last bit added and would accept your request.  It is a shame you have to put it there though.  I can see where you would want to stop this on the front end.  I am just wondering if this could be just as effective if you received the book and then marked it RWAP and copied the guidelines for education on the back end.  The site is designed so mutlitiple RWAPs should trigger the system to address as well.  Not criticizing just searching for opinion.

     

    Date Posted: 5/10/2008 8:11 PM ET
    Member Since: 8/18/2005
    Posts: 7,977
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    Last Edited on: 2/3/10 9:41 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
    Date Posted: 5/10/2008 8:19 PM ET
    Member Since: 10/21/2007
    Posts: 3,430
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    The only thing about marking things as RWAP is that you have to depend on the sender to refund the credit.  Some people who send bad books can be difficult about refunding credits. 

     

    Oops, I was away from the computer & came back to enter this post, only to repeat the spirit of the post above.  :)



    Last Edited on: 5/10/08 8:22 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
    Date Posted: 5/10/2008 9:23 PM ET
    Member Since: 8/16/2007
    Posts: 15,187
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    * This means that you cannot see the spine when you look through the pages of the book.

    I promise I'm not picky.  If you book meets the club guidelines I will be thrilled to get it and very thankful!  I know this request sounds absurd to those of you who follow the rules, but I've received several books lately with wavey pages from water damage or books where you could see the spine through the pages on the inside of the book.

    I always accept RCs if I can and have never had a RWP, but this I would turn down on a brand new book. It sounds to me like you are describing the standard glue job and the paper quality of books these days. You can almost always see the binding because the glue is in clumps instead of smooth, but seeing the binding and separation of the binding are completely different to me. Most paperbacks are wavy before they ever leave the store the first time because that is just the paper used these days. Sorry, but I would never even attempt to send a book under these conditions. Not even a brand spanking new one.

    Date Posted: 5/11/2008 1:03 AM ET
    Member Since: 2/6/2008
    Posts: 91
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    I initially didn''t have any RCs until I received a book that was unpostable as defined by PBS and it was a title I had been planning to re-post but couldn't. It was resolved very amicably, but after reading many posts here on the forums, and my own experience, I decided to incorporate the PBS posting guidelines into my RC.

    I think it is really unfortunate that anyone even has to do that because for someone to post something that's obviously not up to PBS standards, they had to ignore all those pop-up boxes asking if you are sure it's postable. People who deliberately ignore those messages make it a bad experience for those of us who do adhere to the rules.

    Danielle, I like the idea of copying and pasting the posting rules as opposed to simply providing a link to them the way I did. Thanks! I think I'm going to adopt that idea! :)

    Tom, you're right that if books meet PBS guidelines, then they are postable. I know there are PBS members who turn down all RCs, but I do not do that. RCs that say that the requestor can't accept books that are CURRENTLY not in a smoking/pet home/that have no dust jacket, etc., then I don't have a problem with it. It's something I can determine at a glance. If the RC requires me to do extra work (i.e. research its previous homes, inventory the precise number of creases in the spine, etc.) or wants me to PM them with a detailed description or is vague, then I turn that request down.



    Last Edited on: 5/11/08 1:04 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
    Date Posted: 5/11/2008 1:47 AM ET
    Member Since: 5/18/2007
    Posts: 13,192
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    The only RC I have is if it's a hardback that comes with a dustjacket then I want the dustjacket in tact. I very very rarely even order a hardback though.

    I've seen many more requestor conditions in the last couple of months. Many are legit and some are just downright nonsense.

    I refuse the ridiculous ones (book must be in like-new condition) or the ambiguous ones (no excessive wear) or the no pet ones because I have a dog and a cat. And depending on how much I want to get rid of the book, I have also been known to refuse RC's that restate the PBS rules. I find it simply annoying when people do that.

    Oh, and I've just done this once, but I cancelled an order when I found out who I was sending it to because it was someone who regularly complains about how awful all the books are that she receives.  And it was one that restated the PBS conditions too. I just figure that was trouble waiting to happen! :)

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