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Topic: Gah - I think this is unpostable

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Subject: Gah - I think this is unpostable
Date Posted: 4/30/2008 5:14 PM ET
Member Since: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,507
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I got a book off my wish list, it still has a wish list. It has been awhile since it came in, and yesterday while I was reading it, I found *one* page with a couple spots on the top. That makes it unpostable, doesn't it?

Gah, gah, gah.

Date Posted: 4/30/2008 5:29 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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What kind of spots? Are they like food stains or are the ink misprint spots?

Date Posted: 4/30/2008 5:40 PM ET
Member Since: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,507
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I'm thinking probably food stains - not ink misprint spots.

Date Posted: 4/30/2008 5:41 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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If its food then yeah its unpostable but barely. You might offer it as a freebie with an order though.

Date Posted: 4/30/2008 5:56 PM ET
Member Since: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,507
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Thanks. That bites.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 11:37 AM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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I have to jump in and disagree that this book is unpostable. Is your book in good condition? Seriously, does two very small (practically unnoticeable) spots at the top of a page really make the book in less than good condition? Seriously?!

We need to be rational about the PBS guidelines. They are guidelines and the examples they give are things that will lower the quality of the book. These are used books. They will get a little spot here or there. A page or two will get crinkled. A pen may brush lightly across a page.

So what is the point of the guidelines? To provide guidance to people who are posting books. Yes, stains are bad. But two tiny spots the size of a q-tip point are not the reason that the "No stains" guideline exists. It's big splotch of spilled coffee across a page, or a big smashed splotch of ding-dong coating between the pages that is an issue.

If we start marking books with tiny defects as unpostable, this is going to be a pretty unpleasant place to trade books. We read these books at home, on the bus, in the office, outside, in a restaurant... the list goes on and on. We need to be reasonable about the guidelines.

I read here about books that are not even intact that have been posted for a credit. Those are the books I'm worried about, not the ones with an extremely minor flaw like the one mentioned here.

It's time for us to all put our "rational" caps on and start with the primary condition: in good condition, and not excessively worn. A tiny stain or mark does not make a book in less than good condition.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 11:49 AM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2007
Posts: 1,837
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Yep - unpostable.  Sorry!  I was really disappointed when I got a book from someone here that was in like-new condition, but when I read it, near the end of the book there were a couple of greasy fingerprints on a couple of pages.  I gave it out as a freebie to someone who ordered something else from my bookshelf.  You might try doing the same.   The person you got the book from might not have noticed the stains themselves - this is exactly why I've stopped eating while reading books that I want to post here.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 12:14 PM ET
Member Since: 3/10/2006
Posts: 2,819
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I agree with Jane.  If many pages had stains it'd be unpostable.  One page?  C'mon!

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 12:47 PM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2008
Posts: 5,297
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I also agree with Jane. If I were the next person in line to receive this book, I'd take it. As long as I could still read the words and it didn't look like bodily fluid, I would say it's fine. Can you imagine how many less books would be on PBS if EVERYONE was that anal about books. We read them. Sometimes we read them and eat a snack. I never expect books to be in brand spanking new condition, I just don't want them gross or falling apart.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 1:09 PM ET
Member Since: 6/28/2005
Posts: 390
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I agree with Jane too.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 1:54 PM ET
Member Since: 4/21/2007
Posts: 4
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I also agree with Jane.  Acceptable to me.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 2:12 PM ET
Member Since: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,507
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Ok, so the scale has tipped to "post it" I'm off to do so.

Thanks.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 2:15 PM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 13,195
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I also agree with Jane.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 2:18 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2007
Posts: 1,837
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Well, the reason we have the rules is because lots of people consider many unpostable things to be acceptable - to them.  I don't think the size of the stains or the number of the stains matters - it is my understanding that ANY STAINS makes the book unpostable as per the PBS rules.  

I think that some of the responses to your question explains in large part why so many members are receiving unpostable books from other members.  There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what actually IS postable.  Since many things, like condition, are subjective, the rules state exactly what things ARE and ARE NOT acceptable.  So, don't be surprised if someone receives your book with stains and marks it RWAP.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 3:10 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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I have to agree with Carol Ann, the problem with saying this damage is small enough the rule doesn't apply is that where is the line drawn? Is one page ok, or 3, or 12? Is greasy finger prints, but not mac & cheese or blood? If its blood, is the level of staining acceptable less than if it is chocolate? Maybe a 3 cm spot, up to 3 of them for blood, but for chocolate you can have 10 and they can be 4 cm? How as a receiver do I know if its blood or chocolate? It makes the rules too subjective if we try calling them guides instead of rules. Yeah, I wouldn't mark a book as RWP if I found 1 or 2 pages with minor staining, but I would not repost it.  Yes, many good, readable books cannot be posted by the rules, but those are the rules, there are other donation, trading options for those books.

I have a book that is heavily WLed, I opened it up this weekend and found a dirty finger print on the first page. Postable by the its a minor, not very noticeable stain guidelines, not postable by PBS's no staining rules. I cannot post a book with well over 100 wishers.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 8:07 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 770
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Here's a postable/unpostable question:

I bought a used book through Amazon (with a like new) condition.  I bought it cheap, intending to post it, since I couldn't get a copy through PBS.  When it came the inside cover had a "*Where I left off".  I erased it, thinking that if I could get the marks off it might be ok.    On the first 4 or so pages there are little stars written in (Gasp!) pen. 

I asked the seller about it, and her response : It's a used book, almost like new.  If you wanted new you should have ordered new."

It is unpostable,  I assume.  (because I was irritated to get it, knowing my plan.)  Do you all agree?

Thanks for answering all of the silly newbie questions that I am so great at asking!!

~Karen~

 

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 8:51 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2007
Posts: 1,837
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Karen - that totally bites!!  I hate when that happens!  Could you tell what on earth they were marking it for?????  I'd offer it as a freebie to someone who orders something else, or two something elses, from my shelf.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 9:29 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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Sorry but the rule doesnt give wiggle room and unless the PBS team change it I'll always have to answer that a stain-any stain no matter how big or small- makes a book unpostable. If they change it to something that isnt as strict then I'll go by judgement. But I really believe they have the strict wording so that there is no question of is that stain small enough or is it too big. Its a stain so its against the rules. If you give some people an inch of rope they will hang themselves with it. So by saying NO stains instead of no large stains they dont even give you the inch of rope.

They may change it one day though. That I cant fortell but until they do I still say its unpostable.

Date Posted: 5/1/2008 9:36 PM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2005
Posts: 7,719
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Stains are stains, big, small, organic or sythetic, animal, vegetable or mineral. Now granted I do have some stains are nicer than others, ie, chocolate vs. blood, but stains in a book make it unpostable. The sad part is by this time in the thread though, we are singing to the choir.

Date Posted: 5/2/2008 1:17 AM ET
Member Since: 1/10/2008
Posts: 345
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Well, darn it all.  What a quandry.  If the damage was such that you didn't notice it when you got the book and flipped through it, you can chalk it up to an honest mistake on the part of the sender.  I've received quite a few like that.  But now *you* know about it, so it's officially "not postable."  :-)

Date Posted: 5/2/2008 3:44 AM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2005
Posts: 104
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I agree with Jane. If we have to take out all books with any small stain on even one page, we'll have no books to trade for credits!

Date Posted: 5/2/2008 8:51 AM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2005
Posts: 104
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Plus we'd have to use a fine tooth comb going over every page before we marked a book ok or asked for a credit back because there was one smudge on one page!

Date Posted: 5/2/2008 9:17 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,717
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I agree with Jane as well. The guidelines are just that - guidelines. If we start saying any book with any damage at ALL is unpostable, anyone who lives in a high humidity environment is going to have to stop posting books because they warp on first reading and sometimes even before they leave the bookstore when you live in places like coastal Florida.

Date Posted: 5/2/2008 12:58 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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Chris is right; the policy is "no stains and not soiled", not "no stains you think are big enough to be a problem" or "no stains on more than X pages".  No stains means no stains, as they state, "we expect members to follow these guidelines".  It becomes a very slippery downhill slope when folks start bending the clear rules to their own exceptions. :-)

Cheers,

Catt

Date Posted: 5/2/2008 1:31 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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Ive never understood the humidity damage thing. I live in a high humidity area of the country (we even have a swamp) but Ive never had one of my books damaged by humidity. Theres even one sitting in my bathroom right now thats been in there for days with all of us taking hot showers and its not damaged.

As for the guidelines if they meant small stains were allowed Im sure it would state a clearer policy on stains but it says NO stains which means NO stains. I dont think that means we all have to go through our books with a fine tooth comb but if you find a stain even if its small but noticable and the OPs must have been noticable since she noticed them then that makes it unpostable.

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