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Topic: HELP - Members Order at your own risk?

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Subject: HELP - Members Order at your own risk?
Date Posted: 8/22/2013 12:43 AM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2011
Posts: 9
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If the person sending you the book is a lier and a cheat - well, sometimes you loose. :)
 


Last Edited on: 8/22/13 11:11 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/22/2013 12:52 AM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,448
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Hey.  It is really not cool to include member's names.  Please edit the names and links out.

That said, as your last resort, you can mark the problem as unresolved in the Transaction Archive.  This means two marks against the member's account.  PBS does keep statistics of RWAP reports and can access the archive.  So it will go on the member's record.

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 1:03 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2006
Posts: 34,966
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Wendy,

1.  You asked the same question in a different thread and you were answered.  (2nd page of this thread, towards the bottom)

Question About A Member's Attitude About A Wrong Book......

2.  Please remove the sender's name from your post in this thread and the other thread too.  Just click "edit post" and remove the name.

 

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 1:13 AM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,448
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What?  She left names and links in another thread?  Wendy, please edit both RIGHT AWAY.  This really makes you look bad.  PBS will come and edit you if you do not fix this.  

And to leave the link to your VOLUNTEER who tried to help you?  Nasty.  

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 5:11 AM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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Actually, she's posted it, with all the names, in 3 different threads.  Wendy, as others have stated, you need to remove the names, links and other personal identifiers from your question in all 3 threads, please.

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 7:31 AM ET
Member Since: 4/6/2007
Posts: 1,404
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Last Edited on: 11/24/13 8:03 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/22/2013 8:01 AM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 619
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Given that this was posted in multiple threads... with member names... and given that PBS has already told you that there's nothing to be done at this point since it's a she said/she said situation, I'm going to assume that the intention of all these postings was to "out" somebody and gain a pound of flesh.  Not cool.  Not cool at all. 

Subject: Wowser - and the claws come out.
Date Posted: 8/22/2013 10:36 AM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2011
Posts: 9
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Well, went to bed after searching and posting for help and woke up to this!

So I was not at all trying to "out" anyone - I thought that is why we have usernames? PBS has edited it so that the wrongdoer is protected - no worries.

Also I did post in several places as I was not sure how active the forums were and where I might get a response. And I only posted in appropriate places where it would make sense to ask for help to resolve this and/or warn future swappers. WOW I find that the forums are active! Good and bad. I think several didn't have the grace for me that they are claiming I didn't have for the person that sent me a book that clearly was not "post able" and knows very well that there is no recourse for the receiver. I posted for help from members as my volunteer guide said that since the person who willfully broke the rules (and denies any wrong) is the word that will stand (?) and went to sleep - and here I am THE NEXT DAY - so not as if I wasn't responding. So, attacking the victom for not asking for help properly... thanks.

Although I do think there ought to be a way to warn other members about a member that is dishonest or has complaints against them. Anyone of you could get a severed book from this gal next and would have had no idea that she has done this (and been protected) in the past. I know if I could tell there were complaints on someone and I went to the "comments" or would read the complaint, poeple can could tell if it was an embittered person with ridiculous standards or someone like me who was sent a book severed (in perfect packaging) and the sender denies it.  But that is NOT my intent on posting the thread here. I was seeking advice of what to do next. And the most expiendient and clear way was just to post the interaction just as they were without any personal editing. I really didn't want to accept that I was out of luck. The whole thing felt unjust and I feel cheated. ...and now attacked for trying to find resolution.

So am I out of luck? I wish that little point of AT YOUR OWN RISK WITH NO RESOLUTION, was made clearer. Maybe that is all this thread will serve for is just to let someone else know that you may very well be throwing your credit away - that should be able to be considered. 

There really is no he said/ she said - I have the book it is irrepairably damaged and through all the shinanigans. I have the book and the packaging to show anyone that would look. It seems like it boils down to if the person (willing to send a book in that condition) doesn't admit the wrong doing ... tough luck. And only AFTER they have cheated a "pattern" of members will anything happen. So the system is set up to have how ever many members would constitute a "pattern" loose with no recourse or restitution. :(  I don't know if im the first or 15th person she has sent a ripped up book to. With no accountabliltiy how would we know? 

Update: I went and deleted my requests for help - I hope I found them all. I would much rather get on with my life and except the loss than to get embattled defending myself for seeking justice... ug.  Have a nice day. I mean that.  



Last Edited on: 8/22/13 11:24 AM ET - Total times edited: 3
Cathy A. (Cathy) - ,
Date Posted: 8/22/2013 10:36 AM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2005
Posts: 4,135
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There's really no personal info there. There are many many Michaels and Linda Ss in the club. The only link is to her own profile.

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 10:40 AM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,673
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Right now, the name of the "bad" sender and the volunteer who tried to help you are still posted above.

It does seem the book had "library binding" which should have been listed in the book description-- at least, that is listed when you put a book on WL.



Last Edited on: 8/22/13 10:44 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: THANK YOU TIBBEN - a voice of peace.
Date Posted: 8/22/2013 11:09 AM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2011
Posts: 9
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Tibben, You are so right. Thank you for looking towards solving the problem and not attacking me for my lack of forum edicate knowledge. Your perspective is right on. I give. 

On with my life... :) 

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 11:34 AM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2009
Posts: 700
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"  I don't know if im the first or 15th person she has sent a ripped up book to. With no accountabliltiy how would we know? "

 

If someone has totted up 15 RWAP's, I'm pretty sure TPTB would have noted that and taken action.  At least,that is how I hope the system works!  :)

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 11:34 AM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2010
Posts: 754
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There's really no personal info there. There are many many (member's name) and (member's name) in the club. The only link is to her own profile.

 

She had links in her other identical post. 



Last Edited on: 8/22/13 11:39 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/22/2013 11:45 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,861
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There really is no he said/ she said - I have the book it is irrepairably damaged and through all the shinanigans. I have the book and the packaging to show anyone that would look. It seems like it boils down to if the person (willing to send a book in that condition) doesn't admit the wrong doing ... tough luck. And only AFTER they have cheated a "pattern" of members will anything happen. So the system is set up to have how ever many members would constitute a "pattern" loose with no recourse or restitution. :(  I don't know if im the first or 15th person she has sent a ripped up book to. With no accountabliltiy how would we know? 

So, here is a thing to think about. Books can and do get damaged in the mail. I've had the experience of picking up a book and having the spine crack in half in my hands because the glue had become brittle while the book sat on a bookshelf. (and, that was right before I was packaging it up to mail). If that book had been a little bit more sturdy, I would have packaged it up and sent it off, thinking that it was perfectly fine (like-new, in fact) and the receiver would have received a book in two pieces, very likely. Temperature changes (winter AND summer) can affect the binding of books, and so can rough handling (dropping on the floor, having a heavy box fall on top of your package at just the right angle, etc), which may or may not be apparent on the packaging itself.

So, although I certainly believe you that you received an unpostable book, it is not impossible to believe that the sender sent you a postable one.

That's why the sender has control over the credit return. Things that happen "in the mail" are not the respobsibility of the sender.

That also protects you as a sender, by the way. For every post in the forums from a receiver who thinks they got a credit stolen from a lying sender, there is a post from a sender who thinks a receiver is trying to scam them by claiming a received book is unpostable.

The second thing to think about is why there is no public feedback.

First of all, every book is different. Even if the sender sent you a book with a broken spine .. that is no indication that ALL her books, MOST of her books, or ANY of her books have broken spines. Why would they? It's not contagious.

So, the site works to weed out bad senders by using RWAP reports from multiple book transactions. Because it's the pattern that indicates an issue ... NOT an individual book transaction.

And, it also works in reverse, by the way. Receivers who mark a disproportionate number of books received RWAP, also have their accounts reviewed.

So, the site works evenly to protect both senders and receivers from "bad members". And since most of us are both senders and receivers, the site is protecting us coming and going. That's a good thing.

Anyway, to be honest, feedback is a double edged sword. Suppose there was public feedback about this transaction that you had with this member. Half the requestors would avoid your sender on the off chance that she has lots of unpostable books to mail out (although that's not a particularly logical thought, see above). And half of the senders would avoid YOU on the off chance that you are a too picky receiver who is sure to leave bad feedback if there is any issue (real, imagined, or the fault of the post office) with a book you receive.

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 11:50 AM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2011
Posts: 9
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Sara P. Thanks.

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 11:52 AM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2009
Posts: 137
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Wendy - I had a bad transaction a few months ago.  That is when I found this forum and the Book Bazaar.  I learned so much, including buying inexpensive credits, making and getting deals, and making friends.  It is incredible how much good came out of one bad trade.  I hope this will turn out to be a good experience for you too!

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 12:11 PM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2011
Posts: 9
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Betty B. Yes! God always has a way to turn what some mean for your bad to your good! Already (despite the "bad" sender and the forum um.... hawks) I have been blessed. So... on we go. Thank you for your kind words. 

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 12:21 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 619
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Wendy, I don't think anyone that posted meant you "bad."  Explanation as to what might have happened was given (in several different threads, apparently.)  The major concern/upset (understanbly) was for the identification of other PBS members who aren't here to speak for themselves. 

Problems will crop up occasionally in transactions.  Most of the time they're not intentional and consequently unresolvable.  But in the grand scheme of things, the system works tremendously well.  I hope that your future transactions are all happy ones. 

Date Posted: 8/22/2013 3:38 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Once again, I agree with Sara P. yes
 

Date Posted: 8/24/2013 8:49 AM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2010
Posts: 5,700
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It really IS a he said/she said situation, though.  Just because YOU know you're right, and you may well be, the rest of us don't know what happened to that book once it left the sender's hands, including what may have happened once you got the thing.  I'll say this:  I didn't see anyone attacking you.  It seemed to me you didn't like the fact you couldn't post the name of the person who'd "ripped you off" so you bristled.  Sorry, not trying to get your hackles up, but just because you don't like the answer you're given doesn't mean you get to change the rules.



Last Edited on: 8/24/13 9:53 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/24/2013 1:16 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,448
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I did not say that venting makes you bad.  That is not true.  This is the place to come vent. 

The fact that you included the tour guide and member's names and links was what I objected to. 

Date Posted: 8/24/2013 2:05 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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Also I did post in several places as I was not sure how active the forums were and where I might get a response.

You can see the time and date of every post in this forum so you can see exactly how active it is here. There is also Live Help to get a "response". Posting in multiple spots in a forum isn't to get a response, its to get as many people to see what you have to say.

despite the "bad" sender and the forum um.... hawks

Most of those "hawks" you will see have a TG or TGL symbol on their name. Around here that stands for Tour Guide and they help you. Part of that help is also to point out the Forum rules if someone posts without reading them first. If someone didn't like their transaction with you would you like someone being able to post here about it one-sidedly? Because despite you feeling it is not a he-said/she-said no one here can know if the sender sent it that way,  you received it that way, what happened in the middle, or who might or might not be telling the truth. Just as you say you wouldn't be dishonest, the sender could be saying the same thing. I've see two long time swappers that appeared to be great members who were active in the forums come here and both proclaim a box of books was completely unpostable when received (and clearly sent that way)/like brand new when sent. It totally floored the forum members who would have believed both of them without a doubt had it not been the other one contradicting them. And, the site has clarified that spines can open to a certain spot, they just cannot have pages coming loose so people are sending books that some of us would classify as cleaved and not send, but with all the pages intact, they seem to be postable.

Spine condition is one that I will always say can leave a sender in a completely different way that it gets to the receiver. I had a book that looked perfectly intact. I had received it 10 years prior from a smoker so I was concerned about smell. I opened it to smell it when I posted it. Opened it again when I got the request. Decided to sniff one more time when I was wrapping it and the spine snapped and pages went every where. I wasn't even handling it that roughly. Had I not opened it that last time the receiver would have opened that book and thought I'd send a book with a broken spine and half the pages loose.

A good Help Center document for this situation:

There is a problem with a book I received!

The vast majority of swaps take place without a problem at PBS.  But of course nothing is perfect! If there is a problem with a book you received, you need to follow the instructions below.

Please note that we can't adjudicate disputes about book condition  - we can't know in what condition a book was when it was mailed, and we can't examine books or rule on "he said/she said" situations.  That is why marking a problem book "received with a problem" is very important: if a sender's account shows a pattern of problems, the sender's membership will be jeopardized.  One problem swap will not do this - a pattern of problem sending will; thus it is critical for problems to be recorded in order for poor senders not to be able to "fly under the radar" and keep sending problem books.

The good news is that most problem swaps are settled easily by the members.  If everyone is polite and gives the other member the benefit of the doubt, things do not have to be unpleasant, even in the settling of a problem swap.

 



Last Edited on: 8/24/13 2:07 PM ET - Total times edited: 1