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Topic: How do I handle a book with a cover cut in two?

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Subject: How do I handle a book with a cover cut in two?
Date Posted: 2/19/2010 10:34 AM ET
Member Since: 2/4/2010
Posts: 89
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I received a hard back book that had its spine cut with a knife most of the way down the book. The book is still readable and otherwise in good condition, but it is not postable by PBS rules as far as I can tell. This is the PM I sent the sender.

"I received your book today and am requesting my credit back since this book will be not be postable by me. The spine of the book is ripped (looks like it was cut with a knife). The dust jacket is also cut and it has been taped so you know the book was damaged and not postable. Please return my credit."

This person has not responded to me. Did I do the right thing? How can I get my credit back? How can I let PBS know this person sent me this book and did not respond?

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 10:44 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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The sender won't be forced to refund your credit if they don't want to. PBS doesn't usually get involved with disputes unless the sender says in PM's that they knew the book didn't meet standards and sent it anyway. They don't like people knowingly not following the rules. Otherwise, you won't get a credit back unless the sender gives it back to you on their own.

But they do want the sender to at least respond to your request in a timely manner. There's more info at the URL below.

Good luck!

Received with a Problem

http://www.paperbackswap.com/help/search.php?terms=received+with+a+problem

  • If the sender does not respond to your PM within 5 days, submit this information in follow-up from the transaction archiveThis will send an email to the sender, prompting him or her to log in and deal with this problem swap.  If the sender does not respond to that email within 2 days (a total of 1 week since your original PM), contact us.  Failure to respond in an active account is considered admission of fault.
  • If the problem is resolved by the sender, submit that information in follow-up from your transaction archive.

If the problem is NOT resolved by the sender (and negotiations are finished), submit that information in follow-up from your transaction archive. 

Shelly -
Date Posted: 2/19/2010 10:51 AM ET
Member Since: 11/13/2009
Posts: 3,036
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this book will be not be postable by me.

It is my understanding of the rules that it does not have to be repostable to the reciever. As long as when it left the senders hands, it DID meet the postable conditions. I've seen other members say they had to 'retire' the book they got. It does sound like this wasn't postable to start with.

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 10:55 AM ET
Member Since: 2/4/2010
Posts: 89
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I wouldn't care if the book was not postable by me if it happened in transit; however this person clearly knew the book was not postable by them because they taped the dust jacket together where the dj and book were cut.

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 11:53 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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  • If the sender does not respond to your PM within 5 days, submit this information in follow-up from the transaction archiveThis will send an email to the sender, prompting him or her to log in and deal with this problem swap.  If the sender does not respond to that email within 2 days (a total of 1 week since your original PM), contact us.  Failure to respond in an active account is considered admission of fault.

The underlining is mine.  Contact the PBS team & let them know the sender did not respond to your PM.  I've never had to do that, so I'm not sure what exactly they do from there, but they might go ahead & refund your credit, & possibly suspend the sender's account.



Last Edited on: 2/19/10 11:53 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/19/2010 12:44 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,778
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Dustjacket has nothing to do with postability, unless you had an RC for a dustjacket. So, that part is not relevant. The sender may have only looked at the dustjacket, and knowing that taped together distjackets are OK, may not have looked farther at the binding. The fact that it was taped doesn't actually prove that they knew about any other damage.

Is the actual binding of the book split? Because if so, definitely unpostable.

Is it just the binding cover that was cut and the cut does not enter into the actual sewn together binding? That might be more of a gray area, although it probably falls under the rule that specifies "no rips or tears larger than 1 inch" in the cover.



Last Edited on: 2/19/10 12:46 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/19/2010 1:57 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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Why it is refunds are given, and the condition of the dust jacket are both aspects that have fairly little to do with the point the Op is trying to address (as I perceive it).  The binding on the book itself was slashed, and the fact that the dust jacket was taped seems to indicate the sender was aware of damage that should have prevented the book's posting.  Since the Op said nothing of the packaging being torn as well, it would seem the book was sent out with a gash down the spine, plain and simple.  This Is Not Acceptable Posting Condition.  Period.  I don't read anything that gives an impression of ambiguity, or that leaves room for much interpretation.  A cleaved spine is a cleaved spine, a largely torn cover is a largely torn cover, and whichever the case, neither is allowed according to PBS Posting Guidelines.

As Kim has pointed out, after the appropriate length of time, if the sender has yet to respond, you should indicate the lack of response using the follow-up button in the Transaction Archive.  Then, if you still get no response for another few days send a message to PBS via the Contact Us link as well. 

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 3:24 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,778
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Jimijam, it might help her to get her credit back if she is able to specify the exact damage to the sender, and which rule exactly is broken. Yes, cleaved spines and torn covers are both not allowed, but if someone sent me a PM about a cleaved spine for a book that I know did not have that ... I wouldn't be inclined to return the credit. That's all.

My question was because I don't know what she means exacty by binding.

hardcovers typically have a  binding that could be considered to consist of 2 pieces. The actual spine of the book (the part that is glued and sewn) ... and then the part of the fabric cover of the book that is usually loose and not attached to the spine of the book.

I was just clarifying which part was actually torn. The spine, or the fabric part of the binding which is separate from the spine on a hardcover.

If the fabric part is torn ... that is not a cleaved spine. It is still probably unpostable if the rip is larger than an inch ... but it doesn't fall under the cleaved spine rule.

My point about the dustjacket is that I don't necessarily agree that the sender would know about the damage just from the fact that the dustjacket is taped (...the sender may or may not have taped it ... they could have bought it or received it already taped).  If they received the book in the taped condition, they may not have investigated what is going on under the dustjacket (which probably makes them careless, but perhaps not a willfull breaker of the rules). When I see a taped dustjacket, I don't automatically think ...  OK, go look under the jacket to see what is underneath ... I usually just assume that the jacket ripped, and someone taped it. Now, if I was going to send the book out on PBS, I would check it very carefully ... including a peek under the jacket ... but the sender of this book may or may not have done that.

It doesn't absolve them of responsibility for the damage, I just think its kind of unfair to assume that they absolutely KNEW it was there. That's all.



Last Edited on: 2/19/10 3:28 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/19/2010 4:40 PM ET
Member Since: 2/4/2010
Posts: 89
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I think my assumption that the person knew this was damaged is because it is impossible to pick up the book without feeling like it is falling apart. You have to hold the book a certain way to "keep it together" and read it. It is not possible that some one could not notice how the book feels. Think of taking two books in your hands and how it would feel to hold both of them in order to read it. Basically this book is cut in two and it is not possible that the sender did not know that.

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 4:46 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Well, she said: "spine cut with a knife most of the way down the book".  That means spine extreme or spine cover (that fabric part), which is spine, AFAIK, and means unpostable.  And aside from that, "most of the way" sounds like more than an inch to me.  And unfortunately, whether the sender knew about it or not, it's unpostable, so the receiver can ask for a credit refund.  The only question at this point being whether the sender respondes to her or not, & if they don't, it needs to be noted in the transaction record & sent on to the PBS team.

*Edited for Karen's response  which I missed...  I think your assumption is probably correct, Karen.  Just give them the week to get back to you & if they don't, pass it on to the PBS team. 



Last Edited on: 2/19/10 4:56 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/22/2010 10:43 AM ET
Member Since: 2/4/2010
Posts: 89
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Thanks to everyone for their responses. I will give this individual some time to respond and if they don't, I will contact PBS.