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Topic: how do i handle this book?

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Subject: how do i handle this book?
Date Posted: 1/8/2013 4:19 PM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2011
Posts: 26
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i ordered a childrens book. it should come with a little mouse that you move around the book to the different scenes. its a book about a tea party and there should be a little finger puppet mouse.

it did not come with the mouse and there are all these holes in the book where he should be. there is no fun in the book and i have no desire to keep it this way. do i ask for a credit back or am i being picky?

thanks for your thoughts!

Date Posted: 1/8/2013 5:11 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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PBS Help documents, under Is My Book OK to Post Here?

Books that require accompanying NON-Media Materials to be usable: NO

  • Non - media items cannot be sent by Media mail
  • Example: a book that requires a decoder for its proper use.  Such a book must not be posted here.

Books that originally came with NON-Media Materials that are not necessary for the book to be useful: YES and the non-media items are not required to accompany the book

  • As long as the materials are not REQUIRED to use the book (ie, jewelry), these CAN be posted here. 
  • The requestor should NOT expect original non-Media items to accompany the used book


At a quick glance, maybe that book shouldn't have been posted at PBS?

Date Posted: 1/8/2013 5:14 PM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2007
Posts: 6,229
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Here's your answer:

Supplementary/Accompanying Materials:

  • Books that originally came with supplementary Media materials may be posted -  the supplementary Media materials MUST be included.

    • supplementary Media materials include CD(s)/CD-ROMs/DVD(s)/VHS tape(s)
    • if the book originally included supplementary Media materials, the supplementary materials must accompany the book for the book to be postable.
    • The supplementary materials cannot be posted alone - both the book and the supplementary media must be included in the posting.  
    • These combination listings are valued at 1 credit.
  • Books that require non-Media supplementary materials MAY NOT be posted

    • an example would be a book that requires a decoder or craft materials
    • these items cannot be sent MediaMail
    • These items cannot be posted here - because a used book cannot be expected to have original accompanying NON-media items, and if the book is not usable without the non-media items, the book must not be posted.
  • Books that originally had accompanying non-Media materials that are not required to read the book (ie, jewelry) MAY be posted.
    • The extra material does not have to be included, and if it is included, the book must not be sent using Media mail rate.
    • Since this is a used-book swap, members should not expect to receive non-Media items with their books.

Last Edited on: 1/8/13 5:15 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 1/9/2013 4:16 AM ET
Member Since: 1/21/2009
Posts: 12,142
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Yes, it should be marked RWAP and ask for your credit to be returned. Explain nicely about how these items should have been included but were not. Then ask that they do so within 5 days, actually give the date say like January 13th, so you can mark the issue resolved.
Date Posted: 1/9/2013 8:16 AM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2011
Posts: 26
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member citied the same posting rules as you gave me above, in her defence. she claims book is 100% readable without the puppet. my toddler wouldnt even look at the book. it doesnt make sense and isnt "readable" without the puppet. i wonder if she has children? we have sent several PM back and forth that were nice but i feel like its not worth arguing over a credit. i guess i will keep the book but would not repost it because i wouldnt want someone to be disappointed the way i was. anymore thoughts?

Date Posted: 1/9/2013 2:36 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,231
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Yes, it should be marked RWAP and ask for your credit to be returned.

No it should NOT be marked RWAP or a credit asked to refunded. As the rules state, non-media that is not required to read the book is not required to be sent and the book is postable without it. The fact that a child does not WANT to use the book without the puppet does not make the book any less usable.

Though I disagree with the site's stance on many books with non-media (I tend to agree that some books without the added non-media are just kind of sucky and boring), their stance is pretty firm that non-media items should not be expected to still be present with used books. If the book can be read without it, it is postable.

The one example that I always give is the children's cookbook with color-coded measuring spoons. The child was able to help with the measuring because the recipes were color coded (they didn't need to know what 1/4 tsp was because they just had to look for the right color). The book was postable without those color-coded spoons because the recipe did give the measurements so the book could be used with regular measuring spoons. Was the book as fun for a child? - not even remotely. Was it postable without them? - Yes.

Last Edited on: 1/9/13 2:36 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Barb S. (okbye) - ,
Date Posted: 1/9/2013 2:36 PM ET
Member Since: 3/14/2011
Posts: 5,767
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If you do drop it mark it unresolved. It won't help you that much but if someone gets several of them the admins will notice.

I wouldn't post it either but I'm not entirely sure it's unpostable according to those rules. The puppet surely makes the book better but technically you don't need it to read the book. The nice thing to do would be to refund your credit but some people just aren't that nice. It's like a hot dog without mustard. You could eat it but why would you want to? If you re-order the book I would add an RC that stated you want the puppet.

Date Posted: 1/9/2013 2:57 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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Melaine- some kids books with puppets cannot be read properly without them. It's rather obvious of they have holes where the mouse should be put to COMPLETE the picture.  There are a few that do state in the store that the puppet does something, Like sit in the basket and their is a blank spot in the illustration where the mouse needs to go. 
I'd say that is needed material to read the story for a small child.

Date Posted: 1/9/2013 8:12 PM ET
Member Since: 1/21/2009
Posts: 12,142
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I would ask TPTB about it before I mark it anything.  Some here feel you can still read the book without it. 

Date Posted: 1/9/2013 8:30 PM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2005
Posts: 7,719
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How can a puppet be construed as something that is required to read a book? A used book? This is a case where, like Melanie said, the puppet would be nice to have, but in no way would make the 'book' unpostable.

Perhaps some artful magic marker drawings on a finger, or a paper puppet would be the most creative way to allow the child to enjoy the book.

If it is toys we are after in a 1 credit swap, perhaps the toy store would be a better alternative.

Date Posted: 1/9/2013 8:37 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,486
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I'm sorry. The puppet is NON MEDIA. This means that the book can be either without the puppet or NOT POSTED. Marking it RWAP is pretty useless.

PBS has the rules set up for a reason. Non media cannot be sent by media mail. PBS is set up to use media mail. If we sent non media by media mail, then the post office might find out during the allowed inspections. If that happens, then every book on the site is at risk of being delaying to be inspected.

Date Posted: 1/10/2013 1:35 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,231
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Emily - the book would mailable with the puppet. Non-media incidental and integral to the book can be included under Media Mail at the MM rate.

But I still do not believe a lack of a puppet makes a book unreadable. I agree completely that it makes the book SUCK for the kid and I would never post it myself. But firmly believe the sites rules allow it to still be postable even though it is missing its non-media. Making your own puppet or using a stuffed animal in the hole seems like a good alternative to make a kid enjoy the book again. 

Date Posted: 1/11/2013 4:03 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2005
Posts: 87
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This really has nothing to do with the postability of the book, but could you make a little mouse puppet with felt or even paper and it might be a fun little project so that you could use the book?