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Topic: How long have you had to wait for WL books?

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Subject: How long have you had to wait for WL books?
Date Posted: 12/22/2010 10:30 AM ET
Member Since: 2/10/2006
Posts: 22
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How long have you had to wait for WL books that have 10-20 people in line? Every time I search for a book, it has at least 10-20 people in line ahead of me. *sigh* I don't have this problem with older books, of course! The other day I looked for a book and it had something like 1,300 people in line! Yikes! I'll never get that book. But I was curious, if you have had to wait behind 10-20 people, on average how long do you have to wait? I'm guessing there's really no way to gauge this but I was curious if anyone has had any consistent experiences.

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 10:38 AM ET
Member Since: 11/15/2008
Posts: 3,308
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It does depend on the book.  Some of the longest waits are for books with only a few people in line, becuase they are uncommon and rarely posted.  By contrast, some of those 1300 lines move fast, because those are in demand new release books that a lot of people buy and then post.  Many of them will end up with many copies in the system in the not so distant future.



Last Edited on: 12/22/10 11:28 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/22/2010 11:26 AM ET
Member Since: 10/14/2010
Posts: 577
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Depending upon the book (this is not true for most of mine, but I tend to like authors who are already dead). Wishlist it and then look at your Wish List. The books that move will list the last book posted to the system, or if you are really lucky, how many were posted last week. You can always delete it from your Wish list if you don't want to wait.



Last Edited on: 12/22/10 11:27 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/22/2010 11:56 AM ET
Member Since: 7/28/2006
Posts: 4,978
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Unfortunately it really depends on the book. I've been waiting for a book with 10 people in line since I joined 4 years ago... but it's out of print so not posted very often. Most of my wish list books have about 20 people, but they are new releases so the lines pick up a lot after they've been out about a year or so. And at the same time I've gone from 10 to 1 in about 3 weeks.

Hopefully you will move quickly!

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 12:51 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,664
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I WL a lot of books with 10 to 20 people in line. My thoughts are pretty much the same as others ... it depends on the book.

If it is in print, it might come anywhere from a month or two to 6 months or more.

I go by the estimates or last posted date that shows on the Wish List. Sometimes if I see that it was last posted 2 years ago, I might start thinking about buying it used, depending on how much I want it. If it has been posted within the past 6 months or so, I usually wait to see how fast the line moves. (I just make a note on the book with my WL position and the date, so I can see in a few months how much I might have moved.

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 1:57 PM ET
Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 262
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The "last posted" dates aren't really "last posted" dates - nevertheless, they do give you an indication. If it was last posted two years ago, it will likely be a very long wait if you're at number 11. But "last posted" really means something more like "most recently traded book that the system is still tracking." If someone deletes a copy from their PBS TBR list and bookshelf hold and everything else, that copy won't show up, even if it was traded last week.

Go ahead and put those books on your wish list and watch them for a while. You'll get a sense of what moves and what doesn't.

I am #1 in line (usually with no one behind me) for more than a quarter of my wishlist books, and I'm rarely offered any of those. Sometimes, though! It's free to have a wishlist, so I just keep hoping. :)

I also used to think that a year was a long time to wait for a book, but I've changed my opinion. If I'll enjoy a book now, I'll enjoy it a year from now. In the meantime, I haven't had to pay for it and it isn't taking up room on my shelves. Slowly, I'm moving up toward #1 on some books after starting at 50. I have a feeling that some of my wishlist books, though, are hopeless cases - that I'm moving up in line only because people in front of me are giving up on the book and deleting it from their lists.

If I need a book, I buy it. But I love my wishlist!

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 2:10 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,185
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 If someone deletes a copy from their PBS TBR list and bookshelf hold and everything else, that copy won't show up, even if it was traded last week.

Can I ask where you got this information? I've seen it said a couple of times but have never found anything to support the idea.  A book can never be removed from the Transaction Archive and that is where I would think the information is drawn from, not the misc lists that people don't have to use. I've seen last posted dates stick when someone accidentally posted a book to their shelf instead of  adding to their Wish List.

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 3:22 PM ET
Member Since: 10/14/2010
Posts: 577
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I don't know about the information but it makes sense, as a good portion of my wish list is small ISBN (aka non-ISBN) books that have no posted copies and also have no last posted date.

Logic:

It is a small ISBN number which means that the entry was created when a member posted the book.

There are no posted copies available

It doesn't have a last posted date.

This means that the system has to have removed it somehow.  The option listed above is fairly plausible.  The only other option I can think of is removing the book when an account is vacated.

EDIT: To the original poster.  I also posted a book that had 22 wish listers.  Person #10 on the wish list is now #1 (they didn't get the book due to it not matching their RC).  Person #14 received the book and person #15 is now #2.  Everyone else that was on the wish-list either denied the request or was timed out of the system.  So you just never know.



Last Edited on: 12/22/10 3:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 12/22/2010 4:27 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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I have been waiting for YEARS on some of my WL books where I have been #1 for a while.  But it only took a month and a half for me to get a book where I was nearly #400 in line.  So it truly does depend on the book involved...

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 5:43 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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I have been waiting for YEARS on some of my WL books where I have been #1 for a while.  But it only took a month and a half for me to get a book where I was nearly #400 in line.  So it truly does depend on the book involved...

This.

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 6:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,664
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Can I ask where you got this information? I've seen it said a couple of times but have never found anything to support the idea.  A book can never be removed from the Transaction Archive and that is where I would think the information is drawn from, not the misc lists that people don't have to use. I've seen last posted dates stick when someone accidentally posted a book to their shelf instead of  adding to their Wish List.

Yeah, I was going to ask this too. I posted a book or 2 to myself accidentally (before they were even published) and the "Last Posted" date was the day I posted it. And, needless to say, those transactions were never mailed.

To Chris R, ... it is interesting that you have put smal ISBNs on your Wish List. I am not sure of your intention for this, though. The PBS rules tell people that they should not reuse the small ISBNS (which I don't understand why not, but ... that's what they say) ... so I would be very surprised if people are reusing them by posting books to them to fulfill your wishes. Do you actually get any books from WLing a small ISBN book?

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 6:31 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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For the 5 digit-ISBN's-you may never get those. Those are PBS issued ISBNS and really only supposed to be used for that specific copy.  The likely hood of them being reposted with that same 5digit ISBN is slim.  It would probably only happen if someone breaks the rules and posts their copy to that listing because they see it's WL. Or if the person who last received the book reposts it from their TBR pile/Transaction Archive.

 

I have pretty much to say what the others have said.  I have some books on my WL that have fairly short lines and they've been there for 3yrs with little movement.  I've had some books on my WL that are old and out of print and I only waited a few months for them.

I tend to not WL those super-mega new release WL for exactly the reason someone else mentioned. That new James Patterson/Nora Roberts? or latest mega-seller book with the long WL line now-will be the book that has 500 copies in the system a year from now with people desperate for someone to order theirs.  Those lines tend to move 50+ places a week as people get it from the library, buy it themselves, get it from the library and find it at thrift stores.

When I first joined The Sookie Stackhouse, Harry Potter and Twilight books were all heavily WL in every version. Now most of them are availalbe in the system with maybe certain editions or the latest still being WL. Same with audio books on CD and erotica (Ellorascave type) books.  There were few if any just there to order and now I frequently see them on peoples bookshelves.

Some books remain almost constantly WL but the line still moves steadily with no one really waiting very long.



Last Edited on: 12/22/10 6:33 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/22/2010 9:40 PM ET
Member Since: 4/24/2008
Posts: 310
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Books like fiction will move really fast.  Non-fiction can sit there several years. 

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 10:08 PM ET
Member Since: 12/10/2009
Posts: 2,456
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Don't forget to search for those wishlisted books by title or author once in a while. If I had not I would still be waiting for an Irene Kampen book that was listed without an ISBN. I am certain that member thought they would never get rid of that book without a cover image. We are both more than pleased and I learned a good lesson.

Date Posted: 12/22/2010 11:11 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2008
Posts: 66
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To answer the question of where the "last posted" dates come from as discussed here->

"The "last posted" dates aren't really "last posted" dates - nevertheless, they do give you an indication....(snip)  But "last posted" really means something more like "most recently traded book that the system is still tracking." If someone deletes a copy from their PBS TBR list and bookshelf hold and everything else, that copy won't show up, even if it was traded last week."

I have been told this by the PBS team as well. Only if a book is still listed on someone's bookshelf or TBR list does the "last posted" date show. The Transaction Archive is not checked for purposes of the "last Posted" date.

I asked after trying to get a second copy of a book for a friend. I had re-WL'd it and saw that it had no "last posted" date despite knowing that I had just received a copy the day before. I filed a bug report but was told that this is how the system works.

I'm guessing the reason is that tracking the "last posted" on every single item ever transacted here would generate a huge amount of database overhead and so may not be worth it.

 

 



Last Edited on: 12/22/10 11:18 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/23/2010 12:54 AM ET
Member Since: 10/14/2010
Posts: 577
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Actually, if you want anything printed only prior to 1970 or by a company that doesn't have any truck with the ISO then you won't find a 10-digit ISBN number for it for example if you want what in my opinion is the only good Betty Crocker Cookbook.  Then you will have to WL a 5-digit ISBN (I note this one as since I WL'd it 2 copies have been posted to the system moving me forwards on the list).  You are right there are some that I will probably never get, but then I'm also WL'd on the Foxfire books I don't have to complete the set, and fully expect to never receive those through PBS due to the long line and infrequency of posting.

As for the rules, please post any links as I have fully used the ability to re-post onto the 5-digit ISBN's (as long as all other info matches).  As a matter of fact I try to look for the ones that are WL'd first (although I should note that 70-80% of these timed out which is also probably a good thing for the site by letting TPTB obtain more data on vacant accounts).   I don't really plan on going back and changing these books (unless directed to by TPTB), but if you can post actual links to these rules I will change this practice going forwards (although I will also petition to change the rules, but I have a firm belief in changing things from the inside).

EDIT: I should also note that the reason I began using the 5-digit ISBN's is because there was no way to verify the linkage to existing copies in the system when posting "new" books to the system, meaning that if someone had WL'd my book that was sans-ISBN on either a different sans-ISBN or ISBN then to my knowledge they wouldn't receive a notification concerning my book.  I don't currently know this to be true, but I have found the WL Expander to be woefully inadequate for many of the books I have considered acquiring.  I have a hope that with the new system update I have been hearing about this will change and look forward to the changes that will be made.  I have found the personnel that I have interacted with to be professional and engaging, and having had a dad who worked in data processing from the late 70's till his death, mostly assume that the problems arrise from other sources.

EDIT: Technomage I love your avatar where did you find that?



Last Edited on: 12/23/10 1:05 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Cathy A. (Cathy) - ,
Date Posted: 12/23/2010 10:24 AM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2005
Posts: 4,120
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Chris - Here you go: About non-ISBN items at PBS

Scroll down a bit and you'll see this:

  • "Short ISBNs"
    • cannot be reused to post another copy of that book (the Post Books field will accept only 10 or 13 digit ISBNs)
      • this is because not all the information the first poster provided about the book may match another book of the same title that needs to be posted without an ISBN
    • cannot be added to a Book List (TBR Pile or Books I've Read) manually.
      • If that copy of the book is received through PBS, it can be added to TBR when it is received
      • If that copy of the book is received through PBS, it can be added to BIR when it is reposted from the TBR Pile or Books to Repost area
  • non-ISBN items on the Club Wish List if no ISBN version of the book is currently wished-for
    • Usually mean that the wishers already got an ISBN version and neglected to remove this non-ISBN version from their Wish Lists
      • this would not have been done automatically by the system when the ISBN version was received, since the items are not linked
    • If you see this, it is likely that no one is actually currently wishing for that title; these are "leftover" wishes
Date Posted: 12/23/2010 10:59 AM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,123
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Chris, it's not against the rules to add short ISBNs to your wishlist, it's just considered worthless because people don't post them that way.  If you have actually had luck receiving books this way, I don't think anyone would tell you not to do so.

Diane

Date Posted: 12/23/2010 11:00 AM ET
Member Since: 10/14/2010
Posts: 577
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Thank you very much Cathy A

I will note that the language doesn't say that you shouldn't post to the short ISBN's but says that you can't (which is untrue, given that I and others have done it), so I will create a request for clarification from TPTB.  This might also answer my questions about what to do when no ISBN copy of the book has ever been published.

On a side note I find it interesting that the rules link places so much value on the book dimensions as I have tried to use that with several of the ISBN book links to determine if I'm looking at a trade PB or MMPB to no avail as the info wasn't even in there.

EDIT: Sorry Diane K, took to long to formulate my reply.  I will admit that if I was on the edge of the 200 max I would remove several of those books that have newer versions (aka w/ ISBN) that have since been reprinted, but it currently isn't an issue.  On at least one of the books this way I am wisher #20, so I do have at least 19 other friends in this.



Last Edited on: 12/23/10 11:10 AM ET - Total times edited: 3
Cathy A. (Cathy) - ,
Date Posted: 12/23/2010 4:07 PM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2005
Posts: 4,120
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Book dimensions are needed on non-ISBN items to estimate the weight of the book.