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Topic: Ignoring an RC....just venting

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Subject: Ignoring an RC....just venting
Date Posted: 11/20/2012 12:03 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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My RC simply says no writing of any kind on or in books. A weird pet peeve if mine nothing else, I don't expect new books nor am I looking for perfect copies to sell. I trade most of my books right back on this site! That being said....why bother accepting the request and then sending me a book that not only has a name written in ink on the front page but then scribbling over it in ink to cover it up ?? Whether the sender did the scribbling doesn't really matter because either way is unexceptable with my RC in place!!! I marked it rwap, requested my credit back (additional if they want me to return the book) and put a time frame on that I hoped to either get my credit back or at least a response. Of course neither has happened. Sent a follow up message today saying I would mark issue unresolved if they didn't respond within 24 hours. Just seems to be such a waste of time all because the sender accepted a request they shouldn't have. Phew ....all vented out now. Happy holidays to all!
Date Posted: 11/20/2012 8:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,188
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I wouldn't always assume people do things intentionally. Something that minor could have been missed. Especially since it is something that is normally just fine to swap here. At least since the book is easily swappable with such a minor mark (doesn't even need to follow the textbook rule), if they don't return the credit you won't be out a credit. 

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 8:41 AM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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If the writing was in the middle of the book...say an underlined word or note....I would probable be more forgiving and understanding that things can slip by. I mean none of us really has the time to check each and every single page. However, with my RC in place I would think that even the most rushed and frazzled swappers would take the time to open the cover and take a peek inside for writing. In this case the writing and scribbling are about four inches long and say two inches wide....a bit hard to overlook. So in my opinion, either it was done intentionally or the swapper just didn't even bother to check. And yes, I will be able to reswap the book here so it's not really about the credit.....it's about not following the guidelines set by PBS. If we have the option of using rc''s then swappers should be held accountable for respecting them if they accept a request.
Date Posted: 11/21/2012 9:59 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Maybe you need to specify that even names or inscriptions aren't acceptible to you.  The writing thing can be confusing to people because names on the book or inscriptions are allowed and even writing in the book is allowed if they PM first and get permission. Yes it was supposed to have been used as a text book but the rules about what could have been used as a text book are pretty loose.

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 10:12 AM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
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I think "any writing in or on book' is pretty specific.....
Date Posted: 11/21/2012 10:32 AM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,270
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You might think it is specific, but I would interpret it to mean in the text pages. If names or inscriptions are not acceptable to you, I would spell that out in your RC. I never want to get into a situation of having to PM the requesting member for clarification so while I would turn it down a lot of members, especially ones needing credits might not. When I am checking over a book before sending it out, I focus on the text pages, so it would be easy for me to miss a name in a book.

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 10:34 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2008
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I think "any writing in or on book' is pretty specific.....

Yes, and no.  I mean, technically a remainder mark is writing on the book--do you accept those?  If so, then you accept some writing but not all.  In that case, you really do need to specify as there are people, as Mary said above, that do not think of a name or inscription as writing.  That is not the type of writing that is prohibited here at PBS--it's writing on text pages that is a no-no.  So, it could be interpreted that you just want to reiterate the "no writing on text pages" rule. 

I understand what you meant, but we are just letting you know that sometimes being very specific is the way to go--it removes all ambiguity.  Something like this:

"I do not want books that have names, inscriptions, signatures, or writing of any kind in them.  Thank you."

ETA--you can add the bit about remainder marks, too if you want, though you'll get a lot fewer books if you do.



Last Edited on: 11/21/12 10:35 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/21/2012 10:38 AM ET
Member Since: 7/12/2010
Posts: 4,177
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yes Mary & Sally

Tammie, be Very, Very specific. No Big Deal to update your RC...Right?

-RD

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 11:09 AM ET
Member Since: 11/9/2009
Posts: 196
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If I had received your RC, I would have taken it to mean no writing, even a name. 

 

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 11:09 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,188
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I think "any writing in or on book' is pretty specific.....

To take that exactly as you wrote it you could only be sent a blank journal so I don't think you are expecting senders to take you literally. What may seem clear to one person may not seem clear to another. This situation is compounded when PBS say "no writing" too, but makes an exception for inscriptions so your "no writing" means something different than PBS's "no writing", but yet the sender is supposed to know what you want. Be very, very specific and if your no writing means something different than what PBS has already defined as "no writing", then spell that out in the RC so sender clearly see that.

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 12:33 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 615
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OT, but if the book is reswappable and that's the intention, is it right to request a credit back?  The RWAP itself puts the person back at the beginning of the line for the next available book.   Doesn't requesting a credit back and then also reswapping the book unfairly benefit the person who RWAP'd the swap?

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 1:08 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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There will never be anything t hat makes everyone happy. My RC states I accept remainder marks...but no writing of any sort anywhere on or in the book. Simple and straight to the point. I am happy with the wording and in my years here have rarely had a problem recieving books I want.
Date Posted: 11/21/2012 1:56 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,188
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You are right that no RC will ever make anyone happy. Just keep in mind that too many RWAPs on an account for either a receiver or a sender send up red flags. If, for the most part you don't have problems with people following your RC, then you won't have a problem. If you are racking up the RWAPs and getting a lot of credits back, you make end up getting your account looked at as someone who might be using the RC system to get their credits back and not have to pay for them. 

 

OT, but if the book is reswappable and that's the intention, is it right to request a credit back? The RWAP itself puts the person back at the beginning of the line for the next available book. Doesn't requesting a credit back and then also reswapping the book unfairly benefit the person who RWAP'd the swap?

Its a judgement call, BookwormKath. I don't personally ask for credits back on postable books that might not meet an RC like my plastic wrap during winter or something. But If the requester is having to ship out the book to recoup the credit AND requesting another copy to use, then they are out something because they never would have had to pay the postage if the person hadn't sent the book they shouldn't have.

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 2:00 PM ET
Member Since: 10/22/2009
Posts: 1,452
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BookwormKath--I think the answer to your question is "It depends".  If I received a book that didn't meet my RCs but was otherwise postable, I would ask for my credit back if this was a book for my keeper shelf, and I would be ordering another copy from the system.  If I was originally  planning on reading and then reswapping and decided I could live with the copy I received, I wouldn't request the return of the credit.  But, that's just me--if a book is a RWAP the requestor has the right to ask for their credit back--note the receiver also has the option not to refund the credit if they don't feel like the return of the credit is warranted.

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 2:42 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,129
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if the book is reswappable and that's the intention, is it right to request a credit back?

Yes, because asking for the credit back is supposed to make the sender be more careful in checking books over the next time around.  I think the RC is perfectly clear as is, and I would have asked for my credit back too.

Diane

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 9:52 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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If you don't get a response, I'd mark it as no response from the sender before I marked it unresolved. PBS will send something to the member telling them they have to respond and I've always received a response right away after marking it as sender didn't respond.

Date Posted: 11/21/2012 10:02 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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I did as you said ...Lsressler..and had my credit back within the hour. Over and done with now.
Subject: I sent out a book with writing -uh-oh...
Date Posted: 11/28/2012 5:17 PM ET
Member Since: 10/20/2012
Posts: 757
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The writing was printed into the blank opening pages, and it was a series of  addition problems (math).  I could tell because there were shadows of the numerals all over the first 3 pages.

Am I going to get into trouble because of that?  It was a very desirable book, and it went within 5 seconds.  Well, I hope the personal who received it doesn't mind.  I couldn't help it.

 

Judy

Date Posted: 11/28/2012 8:23 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,188
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The writing was printed into the blank opening pages, and it was a series of  addition problems (math).  I could tell because there were shadows of the numerals all over the first 3 pages.

Any writing other than the exempted writing (signature or note in the flyleaf) should be disclosed using the Textbook clause and the book shouldn't be sent until the receiver acceptes it. Because it is on the blank pages beforehand, it can be argued that it wasn't on text pages and therefore may be ok. Personally I'd be pretty pissed that someone sent me a book with a series of math problems written in the book and they didn't disclose it. I'd be ok with a signature or a note there, but a whole bunch of scribbling is overboard to me especially if it was bad enough to dent through the next 3 pages. 

Being a highly desireable book does not make a difference. Rules apply to all of the books and some people actually take their WL books more seriously.

You could end up with a RWAP and need to argue that the blank pages are not text pages.



Last Edited on: 11/28/12 8:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Newbie
Date Posted: 11/29/2012 12:44 AM ET
Member Since: 11/29/2012
Posts: 1
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I have a question regarding this. I am brand new here and what to know if initials on the front

inside cover are acceptable?

 Thank you! :)



Last Edited on: 11/29/12 12:47 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 11/29/2012 1:01 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,188
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Yes Tami,  that would be OK for normal posting guidelines. For Tammie's RC, it would not since she states she wants no writing on the book anywhere. For a normal transaction without an RC regarding writing:

From the Help Center section on Posting Books and Guidelines for Swappabillity Condition: 

 

Guidelines:                                                                                                                                        

Overall Condition:

  • No damage at all from water or other liquid
  • Not soiled
  • No stains (exception for cookbooks--see below)
  • No mold
  • no highlighting, underlining or writing on text pages (exception for Textbooks/Workbooks and travel guidebooks --see below)

Dust Jacket:

  • The DUST JACKET (this is not the same as the cover of a book) does not have to be included with a book at all, unless the requestor had this in their Requestor Conditions. 
  • So DUST JACKET condition cannot be considered as part of the condition of a book, unless there were Requestor Conditions on the request specifying that the dust jacket be included.
  • If the Dust Jacket was to be included as specified in the Requestor Conditions on the request, the Dust Jacket must meet the same conditions as defined for the cover, below.

Cover:

  • Must both be present (front and back)
    • note that a paperback missing its front cover is  usually an illegal, unsold copy
    • "cover" does not = dust jacket.  Hardcovers do not need to include their dust jackets to be swapped here.
  • Cover not water damaged (there may be no water damage to any part of the book)
  • Cover not torn or chewed/gnawed
    • some used book stores cut out a small part of the cover; if the amount missing is less than 1 square inch, this is OKAY
    • a small rip (less than 1 inch) in the cover is OKAY
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed" above.  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.
  • A bookplate inside the cover or on the flyleaf is OKAY

Binding:

  • Must be intact, with no separation on the inside or outside of the book
  • If the book tends to open at a particular page, this is OKAY
  • Small amount of fraying or denting at top or bottom is OKAY

Pages:

  • No torn or chewed/gnawed pages
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed".  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.
  • No loose or missing text pages
    • for travel guide books - maps if designed to be detachable may be detached, but must be included.
  • Cover not water damaged (there may be no water damage to any part of the book)
  • No writing or highlighting or underlining on text pages
    • a signature or note on the flyleaf or inside front or back cover is OKAY
    • an author's signature on the title page is OKAY
    • writing or highlighting or underlining on the text pages is NOT OKAY
      • Exception: if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing
        • if you post a textbook/workbook, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
        • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO in a reply PM before the book is sent
        • This is the one of the ONLY three cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent (the others are for travel guidebooks and cookbooks--see below).
      • Exception: if it is a travel guide (not a picture book but a guide, such as Fodor's or Lonely Planet), some writing on text pages could be expected.  All maps must be present and included with the book - if detachable it is OK if they are detached, but they must not be missing.
        • if you post a travel guide that has writing in it, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
        • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO in a reply PM before the book is sent
        • This is the one of the ONLY three cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent (the others are for textbooks/workbooks and cookbooks--see above and below).
    • No staining

      • Exception: Cookbooks may have some mild staining, since these are used in the kitchen and while cooking, and some minor degree of staining could be expected in a used cookbook.  Also a small amount of writing in cookbooks could be expected
      • HOWEVER, if you post a cookbook and it is stained and/or written-in, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
      • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO in a reply PM before the book is sent
      • This is the one of the ONLY three cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent (the others are for travel guidebooks and textbooks/workbooks--see above).
    • this exception applies to the covers of cookbooks also.
  • Page edges: remainder marks are OK.  A name written on the page edges is okay (if it does not bleed in and obscure text on the text pages)


Last Edited on: 11/29/12 1:01 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Mark
Date Posted: 11/29/2012 5:55 AM ET
Member Since: 7/4/2005
Posts: 25
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What is a remainder mark?
Date Posted: 11/29/2012 7:00 AM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 615
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It's usually a black marker slash across the outside top (or bottom) of the pages.

Date Posted: 11/29/2012 10:08 AM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2009
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Maybe you need to specify that even names or inscriptions aren't acceptible to you. 

I agree that you need to specify no names or inscriptions either.  I would take your RC as no writing in the text pages.

Date Posted: 11/29/2012 12:27 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,797
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What is a remainder mark?

Well, I've seen all types of remainder marks. It usually is some type of marker mark on one of the outside edges of the books, but it could be any pen or pencil, not just marker, and it could be any color, not just black, and it might be dots, lines, X, etc. Sometimes they mark more than one book edge. I've seen books where all three edges (except for the spine) were marked. Sometimes they take scissors and clip off the corner of the cover.

Writing on the page edges of books is allowed, no matter what it is (unless there is so much that you could consider the book "excessively worn", which, of course, is subjective).

Corner clips are also postable, as long as the area missing is less than about 1 inch square.

Any writing other than the exempted writing (signature or note in the flyleaf) should be disclosed using the Textbook clause and the book shouldn't be sent until the receiver acceptes it. Because it is on the blank pages beforehand, it can be argued that it wasn't on text pages and therefore may be ok. Personally I'd be pretty pissed that someone sent me a book with a series of math problems written in the book and they didn't disclose it.

Writing is only forbidden on non-text pages, and that is explicitely stated in the rules.  I don't think you need to PM about any and all writing that is not one of the exceptions, as long as it's not on a text page of the book. 

Blank pages are obviously non-text pages. I don't think there any is room to "argue" about whether or not a blank page is non-text. In any case, books are postable with non-text pages removed. So, if there was a question, you can simply remove the non-text pages from the book altogether and post it.

Personally, I would rather have the book with the pages in it, written on or not, rather than have the pages removed. However, I believe the book is still postable in both cases.



Last Edited on: 11/29/12 12:28 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
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