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Topic: isbn matches, but not hardcover?

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Subject: isbn matches, but not hardcover?
Date Posted: 6/10/2014 5:19 PM ET
Member Since: 1/3/2007
Posts: 108
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I just received a wished-for book, expecting a hardcover per PBS description, but it was paperback! The ISBN matches, so I guess it's not the sender's fault. Is it possible for one ISBN to have two binding types, or do I need to submit a correction to PBS? Do I have any recourse? And if I eat the credit and order again, is there a reliable way to get the binding I want.

Date Posted: 6/10/2014 7:29 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2006
Posts: 4,279
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Yes, it is the sender's fault.  Probably not on purpose, but PBS is specific about the 4 things that must match when posting to a listing: title; author; book type and ISBN.  Whether you mark it RWAP or not, you should notify the member so they will be more careful in the future.  If you truly wanted a hardcover, then you should mark it as RWAP.

Publishers frequently use the same ISBN for various editions of the same book.  PB and HB are the most common, but we often see standard print and large print with the same ISBN.  I've even come across a couple of audiobooks under the same ISBN as the HB.



Last Edited on: 6/10/14 7:31 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/11/2014 12:41 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,167
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What Anna said.  Posting guidelines state that Title, Author, ISBN, and Binding must match.  It could be an error, or both bindings were published under the same ISBN in which case whichever one is in the PBS database first is correct and the other binding must be posted under a short ISBN.

Date Posted: 6/11/2014 1:12 AM ET
Member Since: 2/23/2008
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Book clubs will issue paperback books with the hardcover ISBN.

Date Posted: 6/11/2014 2:35 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,322
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Also, ARCs or Advance Reader Copies are paperbacks that have the same ISBN as the hardcover will have.  ARCs aren't postable here.

Here's a help doc on this:

 

When I enter the ISBN on my paperback, the listing shows a hardcover!

Problem: You enter the ISBN on your paperback and the book Listing Preview says "hardcover" (or vice versa - you have a hardcover and the preview says "paperback").

This means one of three things:

1.  Your book is an Advanced Reader Copy (ARC)

If your book is a paperback, and the ISBN brings up a Book Listing Preview that says "hardcover", please check your book to be sure it is not an ARC.   If it is an ARC, it cannot be Posted for swapping at PBS.

Solution: You can offer this book to others in the Book Bazaar Discussion Forum (read the "How to Use this Forum" topic there before you Post!) but you must not post it to your PBS account Bookshelf.

2. The publisher chose to assign the same ISBN to more than one version of this title.

Publishers sometime choose to assign the same ISBN to multiple versions of a book.  However, PBS can attach only ONE booktype to the listing for an ISBN.  If your book does not have the booktype assigned to the ISBN in the PBS database, you will need to post it with a customized listing, using the Post a Book Without an ISBN link on the Post Books page, so that the booktype matches your book.

Solution: You will need to post this book with a customized listing for the book, using the "Post Books without an ISBN" link on the Post Books page.

 

3. The PaperBackSwap database is wrong.

This can be the case - our database is compiled elsewhere, and can have errors. To find out if this is a database error, you can do the research on alternate database archives (by doing a Google search for the ISBN).  If every single non-Amazon site says that the booktype matches your book, then this supports the probability of a database error here.  If that is the case, you can contact us (using the "send us feedback" button on the Contact Us page) to ask for binding type change for that ISBN.  These take time to do, so in the meantime, you should NOT post your book using the non-matching listing.   If the research you do brings up a mix of hardcover and paperback listings, that means you need to create a customized listing for your book.

Solution if your research shows that no other sites have listed this ISBN with the booktype that appears on our site: Contact us (using the "send us feedback" button on the Contact Us page) to ask for binding type change for that ISBN.  Binding type changes take time for us to do, so in the meantime, you should NOT post your book using the non-matching listing. You can either wait for the change, or post the book with a customized listing you create to match your book, as below.

Solution if your research shows a mix of hardcover and paperback listings for this ISBN on other sites: You will need to post this book with a customized listing for the book, using the "Post Books without an ISBN" link on the Post Books page.

Date Posted: 6/11/2014 3:01 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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Sometimes publishers use the same ISBN for hardcover, paperback and other editions. If the PBS listing showed the book you received as hardcover, then it is the sender's error for posting it incorrectly, even in cases where the PBS listing may be in error. If the ISBN, title and author each match the listing but the book type does not, the book should have posted without using its ISBN and it is within the rules to mark it RWAP.



Last Edited on: 6/11/14 3:08 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/11/2014 8:59 AM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,511
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I would not jump to the conclusion that the sender was trying to rip you off though.  Probably an honest mistake since the ISBN matched.

Date Posted: 6/11/2014 9:37 PM ET
Member Since: 1/3/2007
Posts: 108
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Thanks everyone!

Date Posted: 6/17/2014 9:58 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2010
Posts: 400
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This has me wondering about something.  I have quite a few books on my reminder list and several have hardcover as the description yet I know that the books are not out in hardback.  Some authors now have books that are hardback, C. Feehan Carpathian series, N. Singh's Psy/Changings series and a couple others that are my favorites.

But, some I know aren't in hardback, yet say they are.   I really don't mind personally either way, unless it is one in a series that now have hardbacks.  I like to keep my series current in that area.  I would hate to get a paperback when the series has gone to hardback and be sent a paperback.  

What should be done, check with Amazon or other site to make sure it is hardback?  I could for that book state I want only hardback and switch to paperback to others.   

Should I let someone know so it can be changed in the listing?


 

Date Posted: 6/27/2014 7:15 PM ET
Member Since: 1/3/2007
Posts: 108
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I have another question, too, now that I think about it. What constitutes a library binding?  I have sent and received several hardcover ex library books with those plasticky covers, as hardcovers. Yet I know there are some listings specifically for "library binding". And some folks have RCs about no library books. 

Date Posted: 6/27/2014 8:53 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2010
Posts: 8,359
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What you've described is a library binding, but they're also correctly posted as hardcovers.  You'd have to say they don't meet that RC though.

Date Posted: 6/27/2014 8:59 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,167
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A library binding is a hardcover with no dust jacket...the (usually color) cover pic is printed directly on the hardcover.  Many childrens books have this type of binding/cover.

The mylar cover over the dust jacket is considered a normal hardcover, just protected for private or library use.

Date Posted: 6/28/2014 4:18 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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I have purchased many from used book stores, thrift shops and library sales, in addition to trading for them here and am still confused or unsure about exactly what is considered to be "library binding". There seems to be several types of bindings that qualify under this rather broad heading so I consider the term to be ambiguous, and therefore having little meaning since there appears to be multiple binding types that can qualify as "library binding". It does mean something other than a standard hardcover or paperback as produced by the publisher, but what exactly that means is unclear since multiple binding types seem to be included in this category.



Last Edited on: 6/29/14 2:44 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/28/2014 1:30 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,511
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I am an FOL. Volunteer. It seems our library does not buy books in "library bindings". we have the normal hardbacks with the clear plastic coverings.

 



Last Edited on: 6/28/14 1:40 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/28/2014 11:50 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,322
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I have quite a few books on my reminder list and several have hardcover as the description yet I know that the books are not out in hardback.

If you do research that shows the ISBN has only been used for a paperback -- that there aren't any hardcovers with that ISBN -- then you can pass your research on to the Admin Team and ask if they will make the correction.  It's not too hard if there are no copies posted, and none wish listed.  It gets a little harder (but still possible if your proof is conclusive) if the book is wish listed, and usually not possible if there are copies posted.

Date Posted: 6/30/2014 11:58 AM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2010
Posts: 8,359
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Actually, I have had the team change the book type twice, even with a few copies posted.  They said they'd check with the posters, and get back to me on what they were going to do.  They never let me know anything, but in a subsequent check of the ISBN, it had been changed.  I'm guessing the posters had not verified that the book type was correct while they were posting, and that they actually had the book type that it was being changed to.  I also recently came across one where the title and description said CD, and the book type was cassette.  Since there's no way it can be both, there should have been no copies posted to that ISBN.  There were a few copies posted, and the team updated the book type to CD.  Again, I'm assuming the people that posted did, in fact, have CDs.

Date Posted: 6/30/2014 2:15 PM ET
Member Since: 1/3/2007
Posts: 108
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From Denise's comment... I know libraries can sometimes buy a rebound copy of a paperback book, is that what you're describing? Is this also  sometimes called 'turtleback' which I've also seen show up in the PBS system as a binding type.

I'm probably wayyy off in the weeds at this point, but it does worry me that I may not be able to recognize the correct type of binding when posting to a particular ISBN.

It does sound like a book can have a plastic cover and still be a hardcover book, which is good news.

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 2:20 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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Regarding the term "turtleback", you may find it helpful to think of this as a binding that provides a hard, protective cover over an otherwise soft or vulnerable book cover, and intended for books that may experience heavy or rough use.

Here are several descriptions I found online for "turtleback binding". The first two describe turtlebacks as paperbacks reinforced with cardboard, and the second two describe these as paperbacks rebound as hardcover.

"Turtleback binding is often used by libraries for titles that require additional stability and is a paperback reinforced with cardboard."

"A turtleback edition is a paperback reinforced with cardboard, often used by libraries for titles that require additional stability. They are usually the size of a regular mass market paperback, but have the stability of the hardback."

"A turtleback is a paperback book that has been rebound with a hardcover for use in libraries and doesn’t have a dust jacket. It can also be a series of any other form of printed material that had soft covers and was hardcover rebound, such as magazines."

"A turtleback is an original  paperback that has been rebound as hardcover for libraries and has no dustjacket." 



Last Edited on: 7/2/14 2:21 AM ET - Total times edited: 1