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Topic: I just don't know anymore...Updated: pics posted

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Subject: I just don't know anymore...Updated: pics posted
Date Posted: 3/31/2008 11:10 PM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 965
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I keep receiving books and coming across books where the glue appears to be separating or cracking in between pages. So what you end up with is little cracks, pinholes, or slits in between. Is this unpostable? Initially, I had thought it would be but I keep seeing newer paperbacks with this condition and recently received quite a few books in this condition from long term, frequent forum posting members.  The pages are always intact and tight and you cannot see through to the spine. Sometimes this is evident between the front cover and the first page. I wouldn't even be asking if it wasn't for the large numbers of books I keep coming across with this condition.

Edited to add pics today

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i167/Letty1964/ImportedPhotos00002.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i167/Letty1964/ImportedPhotos00001.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i167/Letty1964/ImportedPhotos00000.jpg



Last Edited on: 4/1/08 6:28 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 4/1/2008 3:33 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 5,091
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It sounds like a problem that would make them unpostable to me:

Binding:

  • Must be intact, with no separation on the inside or outside of the book
  • If the book tends to open at a particular page, this is OKAY
  • Small amount of fraying or denting at top or bottom is OKAY

The books sound like they have the "separation" that is talked about in the first line.  Just because it's a long time member doesn't mean that you should assume that they know what they are doing, or that they never post a book that is unpostable.  It's entirely possible that they just didn't notice the problem.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 5:27 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,310
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I remember one member posting that she realized her books were getting really, really cold in her mailbox, which was causing problems with the glue.  I think she said she started waiting to open/handle them until they'd warmed up to room temperature, and that helped.  Just a thought.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 9:37 AM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2007
Posts: 1,313
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The way I understand it, these are unpostable.  I always mark these kinds of books RWP.  It is frusterating, because you're right - so many books do that after one or two reads.  I joined a different swap site recently for the express purpose of having somewhere to trade those books.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 10:13 AM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2007
Posts: 96
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I've also been frustrated to find some of the newer paperbacks with this problem after only one read.   I'm not all that hard on books. I've read them indoors, so it's not the cold.  They just aren't made very well.   Nevertheless, in my view they are now unpostable.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 10:16 AM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2008
Posts: 7,199
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that was me ! i was the mailbox gal : ) when its cold the books of course are traveling and have frozen so, when you go to open then when they are still cold - the spines crack and break - so, i had to start waiting till they got warm then open them. I have not had another problem since : ) i wonder when its hot if the glue will melt LOL it gets really toasty with the humidity around here !

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 10:23 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,647
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Leticia, I got one like this last month that was a brand new, $30 hardcover.  It couldn't have been read more than once because it had only been out a couple of weeks when I got it.  The inside binding was just falling apart.  I couldn't be certain that the damage didn't occur in transit, and either way, it had to be shoddily made.  The member spent over $2.50 to send it to me, and in that particular case, I did not mark it RWP.  I could have, but I didn't.  It annoyed me more that a brand new $30 hardcover would be falling apart in a few weeks.  Anyway, I figured it was worth my credit price and I have people to pass it on to.  I just think the publishing companies should do a better job.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 11:28 AM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2006
Posts: 4,110
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I do believe a lot of paperbacks are being made exceptonally cheap.  Take Smitten, by Janet Evanovich, I have yet to see any copy that wasn't at best cracked spine at worse cleaved with pages falling out, even our local library's copy.  I finally bit the bullet and just order a copy from the bazaar, yes it also had a cracked spine, but I truly think other than getting a copy that has never been read you're not going to find a postable copy.  All I wanted was to finish the darn book since the library copy was missing the last third!

 

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 11:54 AM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 965
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It is true.  The lack of quality is also evident in the hardcovers as well. I have a HC that looks brand new inside and outside. But there are slits between some of the pages where the glue has come undone. It is very frustrating because the book otherwise is in like new condition.

As for letting the books warm up to room temperature, I never even considered this necessary since I live in Southern California. By the time I get it, it's usually been in the area for a day or two. I would probably agree that this was an issue for me if it wasn't for the dozens of books I've come across with this exact problem in my local library bookshop.

 

 

 

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 12:47 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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It's the same with wavy pages.  I don't buy many new books anymore but I look at them a lot and they seem to have wavy pages when they're brand new.  It's cheap paper and binding-yet of course the cost of them keeps going up and up. 

I joined Bookmooch when I first joined here and never did anything over there.  I might reconsider and post some of my unpostables there.  Although Half-Price books takes a lot of them if they aren't too bad. I've sent out books as freebies that were almost perfect and looked brand new when closed-but were "cleaved" from one reading when you opened the book.  I'm careful when I read them too.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 5:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 965
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So as a result of my posting this thread, I decided to go through my bookshelf and inspect all my books. I normally do this anyway before I ship but I decided to do it all in one shot. I had to delete over 25 books from my shelf due to this problem. I might have posted these books in this condition when I first signed up not knowing any better. Others had that slight cracking sound as I was opening them to inspect which made me just wince  so those were obviously on their "last read". Anyway, I just didn't want to take any chances.

In looking for other homes for my books, I noticed that another site's binding conditions only consisted of the pages remaining attached to the binding which IMO is more important. I'm just glad that I may still find a good home for my books and that I didn't send out any unpostables. :-)

 

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 5:34 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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The pages are always intact and tight and you cannot see through to the spine. Sometimes this is evident between the front cover and the first page.

Leticia, I'm afraid you have some upon one of the great, gray "use your best judgement" areas of PBS.  IMO, what you have described (assuming I understand correctly, at least) is postable.  If the pages are tight and you cannot see the spine between the pages, how can there be separation? 

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 6:28 PM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 965
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If the pages are tight and you cannot see the spine between the pages, how can there be separation?

I went ahead and took pics just to make sure. I certainly don't want to confuse anyone. This is an older book but the the newer ones are similar to this as well. The cracks are so hairline thin, you can't see the binding. Hope this helps to explain my question better and hope the links work. Pics are posted on my OP.

 

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 6:33 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,419
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I think sometimes it's just shoddy construction or bubbles in the glue or something.

I've been experimenting with a book with problems like those you picture.  Taking a small firm paintbrush and brushing a little glue into the binding to see if I can repair it.  Once I fix one problem area and let it dry, I find another one.  I'm convinced the binding glue had bubbles in it when applied and those popped, leaving holes in the glue where you can't see it until you read the book.  I finally lost patience with repairing the book and put it on my freebie pile.  It's definitely readable but no amount of work on it would make it postable.

Rose M. (RoseM) - ,
Date Posted: 4/1/2008 6:58 PM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2008
Posts: 26
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This is a great question!  I'm pretty new here and have received several books that seemed fine when I got them, so I marked them Received without any problems.  Of course, as I started to read the books, I noticed the exact same thing.  I wouldn't call it cleaved, but the binding definitely isn't great.  Most of these books were clearly relatively new and/or only read a few times.  I've always given the sender the benefit of the doubt - they probably didn't notice.  It's sad that books are so poorly constructed now. 

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 7:17 PM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2007
Posts: 1,313
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Well, now that you've posted pics, I would say that book IS postable.  To me, it's when you can see the binding that there's a problem.  Like this:  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/smiley124/DSC02930.jpg or this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/smiley124/DSC02927.jpg

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 7:30 PM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 965
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It's like the Vampire Armand book I sent you Amy. At that time, I didn't think it was unpostable otherwise I never would have sent it out to you, It was those pics that someone posted later that really threw me off. DARN! If the concensus is that it's postable, I just lost my place in line in FIFO for a bunch of books. :-(

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 8:21 PM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2007
Posts: 1,313
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Well, I dunno.  That's just my opinion but it's not necessarily the consensus.  It's such a grey area I don't even know if anyone can say for sure.  :-(

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 8:43 PM ET
Member Since: 12/3/2005
Posts: 3,319
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Thanks for posting the pics.  See, to me, that would still be considered unpostable because there is separation even though its not the entire length, it is still separated.  I feel your pain about pulling books from your shelf.  I've done a mass donation during the last few days.  Hopefully some others will view the photos and post opinions as well.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 10:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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I would accept that book. No problem. Sure, the binding is going to give fairly soon, but it's still intact. My local UBS would have no problem charging full price for a binding in that condition, so I have no problem accepting that book. 

The only possible concern is the remote chance that the binding might give way during shipping. But that one looks solid enough to me to withstand the shipping.

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 10:14 PM ET
Member Since: 7/23/2006
Posts: 15,930
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I think that is postable, and I would NOT mark it Received With Problem.  The binding is cracked, but the help center says it's ok if the book "opens to the same page" and I think that's what they're talking about here.

 

Date Posted: 4/1/2008 11:35 PM ET
Member Since: 10/21/2007
Posts: 3,430
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It looks postable to me, but what do I know?  It is a grey area, but if it is readable and in good condition otherwise I would think it would be fine.  There isn't any separation of pages from the spine, IMO, and the pages are still attached. 

Is there anyone with authority who can say?



Last Edited on: 4/1/08 11:35 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/1/2008 11:51 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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I just sent several books to the shelter yesterday, rather than post them, because they looked like the OPs links. *I* don't think they are unpostable, because you CAN'T see the binding between the pages, but I'm also not taking the chance on getting *that* picky receiver that decides that it's not postable in HER opinion, and marks it RWP anyway!

There's no real way that anyone can say with any authority, Sheena. PBS has told us in the past that they will not make judgement calls based on pics. They've refined the rules as clearly as they can, and have told us that they will not refine them any further. So, it's a risk sending a book like in the pics from the OP, and a more expensive risk than I'm willing to take, but that's just my opinion :)

Date Posted: 4/2/2008 2:37 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 5,091
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Looking at the pics, I don't think I'd mark those received with a problem, myself.  Maybe it's a grey area.

Date Posted: 4/2/2008 8:01 AM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2008
Posts: 341
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I have received books like this before. I think it is just how the books are put together! I don't see a problem with them. But like Sherry said, you are going to run across a member who is really picky and you won't get your credit! I guess it is up to you to decide??? :)

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