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Topic: Looking for KJV Bible

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Subject: Looking for KJV Bible
Date Posted: 8/10/2011 5:12 PM ET
Member Since: 1/24/2008
Posts: 407
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I am looking for a large print KJV Bible to go along with our PACES.  It is for a 2nd grader, does anyone have one or have recommendations?  She has an ESV and NIV, but I think it may be easier if she has a KJV as well, so it will go along with her school work.

ps. I'm just looking for a Bible, not looking for a debate :-)  If you are interested in debating, check out Lee Strobel, Sean McDowell, Josh McDowell, etc



Last Edited on: 8/30/11 2:43 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/10/2011 10:51 PM ET
Member Since: 10/2/2007
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If you are not able to locate one on here , you might try  www.cbd.com  and try searching for large print KJV bibles. They usually have good prices.

Date Posted: 8/16/2011 4:14 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2010
Posts: 51
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I keep seeing this thread, and I keep thinking that 2nd grade is pretty young to expose a child to the bible, especially an archacicly worded one like the KJV.

Date Posted: 8/16/2011 5:56 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
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I was "exposed" to the KJV Bible from the time I was born and it did no harm.  It hasn't been that long that so many different versions have been available.   I can't see how exposing any child to any Bible would harm them in any way.

Date Posted: 8/16/2011 7:05 PM ET
Member Since: 1/24/2008
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We prefer ESV and NAS (and of course we have NIV Bibles as well) , but I've read that if your child reads some of their scriptures in KJV that reading old classics are not as hard for them to understand.  

Date Posted: 8/16/2011 7:20 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2010
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Cozette, your signature puts the lie to your comments.

Christa, then why not start with the classics and let them get that exposure that way? That way, they get all of the same benefits, and none of the negatives of being exposed to religion before they are able to understand the complex topics at hand.

Date Posted: 8/17/2011 10:30 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
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LIE?  I was a child during the 1940's and 50's.  We used the KJV until my late teens.  I never said I didn't use or read any other version.

Coming onto the Christian for forum to put down Christian books isn't what this site intended. 

This forum is not about classic literature but about Christian books and their impact.

"negative of being exposed to religion" states your purpose well. 

Date Posted: 8/17/2011 10:47 AM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2010
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Cozzette, the lie is that you claimed not to have been harmed by exposure to the bible at a young age, but your signature very clearly shows a religious quote. Regardless of the translation of your quote, you are still expressing the harm of early exposure to religion. As for what forum this is, regardless of the forum, it is appropriate to speak out against abuse and mistreatment of children. If the only benefit the OP had was 'easier to read classics', then there is a simple solution to the problem that avoids the touchy issue entirely.

Date Posted: 8/17/2011 2:39 PM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2008
Posts: 3,365
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Jeff, Many children read the King James Bible from an early age and don't have any trouble with it. Especially if you are there with them reading it. Just like any other book they have to learn to read and understand it. I often have people say they can't understand the KJB. From the same point of view, I have read some of the other versions and they are harder to understand  for me. I think it is all in how you are raised. I know 10 year olds who read adult books with no problem and then other 10 year olds who have a hard time with a teen-age book. I was raised reading older books, styles, versions and classics. My father, who was not raised in that way, often has never heard of words that I know.

And according to you, this letting them read another version of the Bible is abuse? Doesn't look that way at all to me. Christa is letting her child read all versions of the Bible, not just one. Sounds like she will be well read:) I think this is far from child abuse.

Date Posted: 8/17/2011 4:31 PM ET
Member Since: 1/28/2009
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Here I was thinking that this post was for someone asking for help in locating a Bible.

Just goes to show that you have to be ready at all times for the enemies attacks.  Never know in what form they might take.

Date Posted: 8/17/2011 5:47 PM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2008
Posts: 3,365
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Well, it started out that way, Cynthia:) I hope Christa finds the Bible she needs.

Date Posted: 8/17/2011 10:58 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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Sorry my friends, I won't feed the troll any more.  Let's not give the enemy the power he wants.

Date Posted: 8/18/2011 7:43 AM ET
Member Since: 1/10/2006
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Amen.

Date Posted: 8/18/2011 8:54 AM ET
Member Since: 1/28/2009
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I agree Cozi but we also have to stand for what we believe.  In this case I don't think it would make an impact though.

Date Posted: 8/18/2011 9:52 AM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2010
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So I am a 'troll' simply because I think a book that many *adults* have trouble understanding and comming to terms with is inappropriate to a 2nd grader? It might be different if the child themselves was asking to read the book, but I seriously doubt that.

Date Posted: 8/30/2011 12:28 PM ET
Member Since: 8/5/2011
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No, Jeff, you are not a troll!! Many people feel the way you do now-a-days.

However, it is not abuse for a child to read the KJV!! In the early 1900's all schools used the KJV as a part of their instruction. The original Webster's Dictionary used quotations from the KJV for clarification. Your great grandparents (if they were educated in the USA) read the KJV.

Surely, you can't get me to believe that they were more intelligent than you?!?!? Nah! I don't believe it! Only that one must have a heart that wants to understand.

However, to all who read this, beware not all 'Bibles' are true translations!!!! Many of the newer one's are paraphrases. Meaning, that the writer has written what he/she believes  to be true, not what the original Bible said.

                                     Remember, if we are following a 'road map to Heaven' we want it to be correct! Lest we be lost!                                                                   

Specifically :  The Message        Not only is this a paraphrase, but is in some areas completely contradictory to the Holy Scriptures!



Last Edited on: 8/30/11 12:31 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/30/2011 12:41 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2010
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Sara, two points for you to consider:

1) All English translations are simply what the translator believed to be true. There is no such thing as a 'true translation', especially since most of the Bible is unavailable in the original words -- or even the original written form. Before it was written, it was an oral history, subject to much change, and most of it is not even written by the witnesses to the original events.

2) My comments about the age-appropriateness have nothing to do with the languange of the KJV, but rather the content, and the likely attitude of the instructors. The vast majority of people teaching a second grader about the Bible are doing so to impose their beliefs onto the second grader. They will likely present the Bible as factual truth, when it is far from it. Most *adults* have difficulty reading and understanding the content of the Bible, and seperating the exagerations, alegory, symbolism, mythology, and portions 'borrowed' from earlier religions from the parts with factual or philosophical value -- not to mention that most of the philosophical and moral discussions are inappropriate for a second grader. In the early 1900s, life was different, values were different, and we can see the results of that -- most of the adults who were exposed to the Bible improperly or too early still have difficulties with it today! Yes, my grandparents were likely taught using a KJV, and it's quite clear that they were damaged by it. I have had several long discussions with my grandmother where she made it clear that not only is she unable to separate the fact from the fiction in the Bible, she *still* thinks the pope is unfalible, and thus the Catholic pedophiles do not need to come to justice or be punished. Her view on the world was clearly skewed by religion.

Date Posted: 8/30/2011 2:11 PM ET
Member Since: 8/5/2011
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Ah! My friend, Jeff!

The King James Bible that we now read in our own language, was indeed translated from manuscripts written by the hand of the eyewitness or written as the eye witness spoke the words.

As to it's truth, let me say that history has proven and science has proven the Bible many times over.  There is no book that has less error! Just two examples, thousands of years before Columbus sailed the wide blue ocean to prove that the Earth is round, the Bible already stated that fact.  Thousands of years before the last of the stars of Orion were 'discovered' the Bible already said how many.  I could go on and on with more examples.

As to the instructor teaching their own beliefs... yes, we all do. If you were to teach a child you would teach them that the Bible isn't true. A Muslim would teach that the Koran is true. And on it goes. The fact is this, Jeff, children are sponges and will learn whatever we put before them. If we teach them that water is good, they will believe it. If we teach them that coffee is better, they will believe it.  If you teach them without words, you are still teaching them. For example, if a parent/instructor spits on the floor, they never have to say "It's cool to spit on the floor." the child just picks it up.  If a parent/ instructor reads the T.V. guide all of the time and treats it with respect, so will the child.  So, that point is too obvious to even continue to consider.

As to the fallacy of the Bible, I think my point has been made.  However, I will say that there is nothing in the Bible, I repeat nothing, that is too strong for a second grader! This I know for two reasons. #1. I was once a second grader.  #2 I have a second grader.  My second grader understands a whole lot more than we give her credit for.  She reads a chapter or two from the Bible every night (her own choice). The next morning, well, she shocks us with her insight.  Hello! Second graders are very intelligent. 

AS to your family, I am sorry.  But I will say that the Catholic church has some things really confused. And some people.

Let me share a bit of history. (Research it) The Church began in the Book of Acts. (Written by an eye witness, by the way) Jesus had told his followers to go to Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Father.  The did this and on the day of Pentecost (50 days after Passover), they were all sitting there waiting.  Suddenly there was a sound like a mighty rushing wind and it filled the house.  They all (Jesus' mother included) began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit of God (the Holy Ghost) filled them.  The neighbors and townsfolk asked about it and Peter explained.  When they asked what they needed to do he said "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." They obeyed and were also filled.  In just a short while, those who had not liked Jesus, began to persecute the Church and put to death as many as they could.  The Church scattered into all countries of the then known world.  After so much persecution, they began to be more silent about what they believed.  Some began to compromise, because they were afraid.  Then in 325 A.D. Constantine met with some of the Church leaders and had a council.  He basically told them that if they would accept and begin teaching this 'new' doctrine that the persecution would stop.  At that council, it was decided that the recieving of the Holy Ghost was not essential and that baptism (which means literally 'to dip or submerge') should be by sprinkling. Also that there was this strange thing called the Trinity or three people who were not three but one. And so therefore they should baptize sprinkle in the titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.  Note:This was not the formula of the original Church!   From there the Catholic Church and Church of England pretty much believed that the pope was the demi-god (for lack of a better word), and began making up all kinds of rules and regulations that cannot be backed up by the Bible.  Such as a priest not marrying....If they married, they wouldn't be as tempted to take their altar boys! The Bible teaches that a Pastor/Minister should "be the husband of one wife" which does away with the whole idea of their "celebacy" and the whole idea of homosexual ministers! 

I will stop the history lesson here, unless you would like more. Which I have studied for many years and have mostly memorized, but feel free to research for yourself.  

I will just say that the fallacy or Truth of the Bible should not be based upon the Catholic Church and her misdeeds.  There is a true Church, Baptized in the name of Jesus (not titles), and filled with the Spirit of the One True and Living God who reigns supreme. And very soon, that loving, pure and holy God will take that Church away to be with Him in Heaven. And yes, there will be judgment upon the Earth. Upon  those who denied Him, who scoffed and wanted nothing to do with Him. There is coming a day when those folks will run to the rocks and ask the rocks to fall upon them. 

I am staying close to Jesus. I have been baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ. I have received the gift of the Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues as His Spirit gave me the utterance.  I Know that the Bible is right! I KNOW that He is Real and that the gift of the Holy Ghost is for us today, because I have received it and He lives and moves through me. 

I also know, Jeff, that even though you may be sceptical, Jesus loves you and died for you.  And you know what else? He wants to fill you with the gift of the Holy Ghost as well!



Last Edited on: 8/30/11 2:50 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 8/30/2011 2:33 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2010
Posts: 51
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Eye witnesses? Not at all.  First of all, the earliest known copies of the gospels date from the 4th century. Even ignoring the fact that even the oldest copies of the gospels disagree with each other and show transcription errors and divergences, scholars honestly don't believe that the eye-witnesses either wrote or dictated the gospels directly. The gospel of John, for instance, is believed to have been authored between 90 and 110 CE. Assuming that the historical Jesus died between 30 and 36 CE, as is commonly accepted, that would mean John would have been quite an old man -- and 70-80 years is a long time to keep details straight -- but that's not even the biggest problem, as scholars think that Luke plagarised off of Mark when authoring his gospel, and there is substantial evidence that the ending of Mark was created out of whole-cloth in the 2nd century and added to the Gospel.

 

Let's just pass over the fact that the Sinaiticus, the oldest version of the NT completely ommits the resurection and post-resurection portions of Mark.

 

Furthermore, this is just superficially glossing over the problems of the gospels -- what about the old testament? You are claiming that those books were authored by the people they talk about? Sure, that's the case with some of them -- but it's a deep scholarly study to look into who wrote what, and when, but *no* scholar out there would defend your claim that the KJV was translated from the versions of the text written or dictated by the eye-witnesses.

 

Historically speaking, the KJV also has mediveal editions and ommissions that have been proven to be inaccurate.

 

But, overall, thanks for you proving my point that even many adults are unable to accurately discuss the veracy and history of the Bible, regardless of version. Perhaps now you will see my point when I say that it is a bit inappropriate and dangerous to teach this to a *SECOND GRADER* when many adults trip up on this text -- and let's not ignore the fact that this text is still easily one of the most significant books to modern society, and all the damage poor understanding it has caused.

 

 

Date Posted: 8/30/2011 2:52 PM ET
Member Since: 8/5/2011
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Sorry Jeff, You responded before I was done.

 

Date Posted: 8/30/2011 3:05 PM ET
Member Since: 8/5/2011
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The truth of the matter is that you are on the wrong forum. Because apparently your God is not the true and living God. And  you are only listening to the "scholars" who are teaching their beliefs. Not facts!

Luke did not plagarize anyone! He was there! And furthermore, the Old Testament is just as much what I am talking about as the New Testament!

Yes, there was oral history. But you are forgetting, my friend that they lived much longer than we, they were in better health than we and therefore an eyewitness might well be able to tell his account to his great great great great great granchildren.

Dear Jeff, you too have solidified my point.  For in the book of 2nd Peter it says "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days, scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

Jeff, we are in the last days. Thank you for proving both that fact and the fact that the Bible is true.  You scoff and say that it isn't. Well, Peter said that you would be here in the last days.  And guess what? The rest of the Bible is true, too! Jesus is coming back and he is coming for those who believed, have been baptized by immersion in water in the name (not titles) of Jesus, and have been filled with the Holy Ghost.

For "the Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some men count slackness".

You were indoctrinated by those who taught and still do teach you. We, the Christians of the free country of the United States of America, will continue to prepare our children for Heaven.

Date Posted: 10/11/2011 3:15 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2010
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Sara, I have no god. Let's get that straight, first of all.

 

As for Luke's plagarism, you appear to disagree with almost all the historical scholars on that one.

As for living longer, there is simply no evidence all to back up your claim that people 2000 years ago lived longer than today. In fact, all the science states the opposite -- they lived shorter lives than we did.

I'm sorry you refuse to live in reality, and insist on teaching your children to fear life, and abusing them by teaching them the apocalpse is near. I wish your would reconsider your anti-education stance. I really do.

Date Posted: 10/20/2011 11:43 AM ET
Member Since: 7/28/2006
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I'm confused Jeff.  Did you come to the Christian forum looking to pick a fight?  Obviously the topics in here would not be of interest to you, as you self-profess in the post above to not be Christian.  Would you respond the same way if, say, the topic here were about Jewish, Buddist, Hindu, Mulism, etc. beliefs? 

I have my beliefs, you have yours.  I don't need to believe the same way you do, just as you don't need to believe the same as me.  That's the perfect beauty of living in a country where we are free to practice religion as each person sees fit for themselves. 

Free speech is a wonderful thing.  You have the freedom to express your opinions, and I have the right to express mine.  But calling other people liars and telling them that their opinions are incorrect?  It comes off to me as mean-spirited, petty, and frankly immature.  It's their opinion.  Who are you to judge what's right or wrong?

Agree to disagree Jeff.  :)  Diversity is beautiful!