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Topic: He-man Woman Haters Club

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Subject: He-man Woman Haters Club
Date Posted: 6/11/2009 6:29 PM ET
Member Since: 5/17/2009
Posts: 64
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I know that most of the people who use PBS are women, I would just like a heads-up on who all the men out there are (that like SF and fantasy). I'm just asking because there may be a time when I want a man's input on a particular book. I'm not trying to be chauvinistic or anything, just wondering. I hope I'm not getting myself in trouble....I really LOVE this website, and so far, everyone has been top-notch.

Date Posted: 6/11/2009 6:44 PM ET
Member Since: 4/9/2009
Posts: 360
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Huh, I guess I had never even looked at that particular statistic.

I agree with you though. In general, the reviews and thoughts about books are different for men and women. So ask away and I"ll give you my 100% manly opinion :-D hahahaha



Last Edited on: 6/11/09 6:46 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/12/2009 2:40 PM ET
Member Since: 4/13/2009
Posts: 285
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Well, looking just at the posts in the "Top 5 Sci-Fi authors" thread, it looks like there's plenty of XY posters in this part of the boards.  You might have more trouble if you are looking for male reviews of a chick-lit or romance novel. ;-)



Last Edited on: 6/12/09 2:40 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Tracy
Date Posted: 6/12/2009 5:17 PM ET
Member Since: 5/17/2009
Posts: 64
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That's hillarious!!

Date Posted: 6/18/2009 11:41 PM ET
Member Since: 1/16/2009
Posts: 112
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The differences would be interesting to observe.  When I began reading SF, there were very few female authors and they mostly took pains to hide the fact with non de plumes, ambigious names, or initials.  Seems like someitme in the 80's the women writers stormed in and took over.  Ursala Le Guin, C.J. Cherryh, Elizabeth Moon, Lois McMaster Bujold  quickly became some of my favorit authors.  So, I owuld be glad to discuss differences in perception. 

Date Posted: 6/19/2009 2:30 AM ET
Member Since: 4/18/2009
Posts: 1,376
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As a sometimes feminist, I would dispute the statement that women writers "took over" -- checking bestseller lists, when a sci-fi or fantasy author appears it is almost always a man. Obviously, there are authors like Laurell K. Hamilton. . . but I think for every one of her there are two Robert Jordans. However, I do agree with (and approve of) the fact that women authors feel less pressure to disguise their sex, though one of the examples given (C.J. Cherryh) is a bad one, as the preference for male authors is why she is a "C.J." instead of "Carolyn Janice." But then, she is a slightly older author, getting her start in the 70s rather than the mid to late 80s like Moon and Bujold did.

 

There is actually a fascinating article discussing gender issues in SF/fantasy focusing mainly on Bujold on her website here:

http://www.dendarii.com/reviews/kelso.html

 

But since this thread was one pleading for male input, I'll get off my hobbyhorse now. My last comment will be that while men and women often perceive -- and then describe -- things differently, it isn't impossible for a woman (or a man) to step out of that gender bias and make a recommendation that takes into account how the opposite sex is likely to receive it. Half the time even that effort isn't necessary; there are some easy things the requestor can say or the recommender can add that will clue the other person in to what particularly masculine or feminine traits are either desired or disliked in a novel.

Date Posted: 6/19/2009 8:58 AM ET
Member Since: 6/8/2008
Posts: 68
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Funny thing... I got so used to female SF authors using initials (like CJ Cherryh) that for the longest time I assumed SM Stirling was a woman!

File:SM Stirling 2.JPG

Shaun (sec) - ,
Date Posted: 6/19/2009 9:21 AM ET
Member Since: 11/23/2008
Posts: 80
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I'd be glad to throw in my $.02 as a guy.  I read a little of everything, though Fantasy and Sci Fi are my preferred genres.

Only thing is, I am just an occasional lurker in the PBS discussion forums -- I might look around once or twice a week.  I suspect this is true of a good number of the male members members who are male.

And on the side topic of women authors -- for the longest time, I though Kim Stanley Robinson was a woman.  Imagine my confusion the first time I met him at a book signing...  D'oh!

Subject: great input
Date Posted: 6/19/2009 8:30 PM ET
Member Since: 5/17/2009
Posts: 64
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My main reason for starting this thread was that I got Warriors Apprentice to read as I saw that it was highly recommended, but by women. I was wanting to know if it was because it was enjoyed by women because it is a space romance or something (that I wouldn't enjoy) or if it was just that more women are on this site and therefore I see more women recommending it (which I would enjoy). Any observations?

Date Posted: 6/19/2009 9:01 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,398
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Lois McMasters Bujold does include some romance.  But there is so much more going on in her books.  Politics.  Disablities.  Military politics.  Humor.  Family stuff.  Silly uniforms.  Women in the military.  She has these layers and layers of stuff.  It isn't a chick SF book.  (Skip Linnea Sinclair, she is chick SF.)   There is a reason that LMB is almost every year in the running for the awards, if not getting one of the two big ones. 

And all this is going on in a fast moving adventure with lots of humor.  Not dry.  Not a huge complicated long thread.  (Yes, all connected, but you won't be lost if you don't remember the last one.)

First time I saw her on the awards list I kinda went huh.  A funny fast read?  And then it dawned on me, it was a funny fast read that had depth and issues.  Now, that is skill.  Too many books are either fluff or overly serious.   In addition, I have never found fault with her editing.  Her books are tight.

Hugos 2004, 1995, 1992, 1991

Nebulas 2004, 1998



Last Edited on: 6/20/09 1:14 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/20/2009 12:13 AM ET
Member Since: 4/13/2009
Posts: 285
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If you want to get a taste of Lois Bujold's writing and decide for yourself, her novella "Mountains of Mourning" (which won both the Hugo and Nebula awards) is available to download for free at the Baen library

http://www.baen.com/library/

(This story does follow chronologically after "Warrior's Apprentice" so is technically a spoiler, but they can be read independently without ruining either story).

Date Posted: 6/20/2009 10:35 PM ET
Member Since: 4/9/2009
Posts: 360
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I've never read any of Bujold's stuff, mainly because the descriptions of the plots of her books never interested me.

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 11:49 AM ET
Member Since: 6/23/2006
Posts: 55
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I used to ignore Lois McMaster Bujold for that same reason. But then a website that recommended authors to try based on the books you listed that you enjoyed kept giving me her name. 

I finally tried her and (!) the recommendations were right. I don't like a lot of the stuff that gets recommended as funny either, but her humor is wickedly dry and the action is fast and furious. Great stuff, I highly recommend The Warrior's Apprentice. 

And in the spirit of full disclosure I guess I should say that MilSF is my just about my favorite subgenre.  

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 12:03 PM ET
Member Since: 4/4/2009
Posts: 9,450
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In the very excellent  Xenogenesis trilogy, Octavia Butler introduces very intelligent aliens to a post-apocalyptic earth. They diagnose us as fatally flawed. We are highly intelligent and highly hierarchical (at bottom, she means men run things and most agressively). Such a society the aliens feel is destined to destroy itself. Based on the continued and continuing behavior of humankind, the point is very difficult to argue against.

Dr. John T. West, III

Date Posted: 7/4/2009 8:49 PM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 5,091
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I know I'm way late to this discussion, but it never even occurred to me that anyone would think of Bujold as sci fi chick lit.  I guess because the hero is a young man who gets to do a lot of bed-hopping and world-saving, which are things that he-mans usually appreciate in a hero.  My husband has read the entire Vorkosigan series and loved it.

Her fantasy I'd say is more feminine reading, so I wouldn't recommend you fellows try. But I don't hesitate to recommend her science fiction to men.

Date Posted: 9/16/2009 2:38 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2008
Posts: 6,536
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If you want to get a taste of Lois Bujold's writing and decide for yourself, her novella "Mountains of Mourning" (which won both the Hugo and Nebula awards) is available to download for free at the Baen library

http://www.baen.com/library/

(This story does follow chronologically after "Warrior's Apprentice" so is technically a spoiler, but they can be read independently without ruining either story).

Don't miss the Bijold Bibliography in Haiku Format that is the last three pages of this download.  It is hilarious.  I love Haiku.

 

Stop ignoring member