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Topic: do I mark as a problem, or just accept it, donate it and order another.

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Subject: do I mark as a problem, or just accept it, donate it and order another.
Date Posted: 12/15/2007 9:37 PM ET
Member Since: 2/14/2006
Posts: 88
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OK  I don't like to make waves...... but, I just recieved a book that I personally would consider in VERY worn condition.  The front cover is almost ready to tear off, it hasn't yet but almost.  Both corners of the front cover has been torn off.  The binding is bent... I don't know how to decribe it.  The pages are very yellowed, but I can live with that.   There is a small area of water mark in the front cover and it looks as if the first pages... (maybe even a bloank page) has been torn out.   It is an older bantam book. 

I hate whiners.   So I am hesitating to say recieved with a problem.... but at the same time, I wouldn't post this.  So should I mark it as recieved with a  problem, or just accept it  donate it and order another.   Chalk it up to one of the few trades that all the wonderful trades make up for.    Am I being to picky?

So how do you all decide just what constitues postable or not.

Sharon

Date Posted: 12/15/2007 9:48 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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The water mark alone makes it unpostable. I would post it received w/o a problem.  This person cannot be allowed to conitnue to send out such bad books. The yellowing it ok by PBS standards. Covers can have tears up to 1 inch.  But the water dmg and missing pages makes the book unpostable.  Don't be afraid to complain and ask for your credit back.  You may not get it but at least it will be on their record. Also if the member is new they may not be aware that the book was upostable.  I read the help docs and book guidelines before I posted any books.  But not everyone does.

Date Posted: 12/15/2007 9:52 PM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2005
Posts: 7,719
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Hi Sharon,

Therein lies the problem with a used book site. What constitutes Excessively Worn. I am one of those readers who really doesnt mind a book in any condition. I once plucked a book out of a puddle, let it dry for about a month and read and enjoyed it. Would I post it here? No. Would I accept an excessively worn book from a friend, or pay a quarter for one? Yes. I also am trying to read all the books that were written by Rex Stout, most were published/printed in the 70s and early 80s. When I order a book that I know was printed over 20 years ago, I tend to let my expectation ease a bit here. But I am also reluctant to post them back into the PBS system. Although yellowed pages and damaged covers are probably the norm for books of that age, I am just not willing to take the risk to post them. I think the one issue with the book you received that  very clearly makes this book unpostable is the water damage. That is the one absolute here. I would mark it received with a problem, only for that reason. The Excessively Worn is just such a subjective area.  And I agree with you, with all the great books I have already received, one or two doesnt change my joy at finding such a cool place to find books and friends.

Date Posted: 12/15/2007 11:09 PM ET
Member Since: 2/14/2006
Posts: 88
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You are right in that technically the only problem is the watermark.  Even the pages missing could be only one page and often books have a blank page first.  (Nothing seems to be missing content wise) 

The water mark is really not very big. So if all else was in better condition I would not have a problem accepting it.

Yep, decision made.  Mark it recieved, move on with life.  Whew!

Thanks for helping me think that one through. LOL  If only all lifes little stresses could be that easy! 

Sharon - 

Date Posted: 12/16/2007 8:47 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 4,469
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Water damage alone is cause enough for RWP.  I would mark it as such, and politely ask for my credit back(although I wouldn't hold my breath about getting it). 

Date Posted: 12/16/2007 9:55 AM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2005
Posts: 69
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I would have marked it RWP. The water damage AND the missing page(s) make it unpostable. It doesn't really matter what was or wasn't on the pages, the rule state no water damage and no missing pages, period. There are no exceptions for either of those things listed in the rules. Is that getting technical? Maybe, but those are the rules put in place here and none of us are entitled to ignore them.

People who send books that are against the rules need to be reported, otherwise they will just continue to send unpostable books. That's not fair to anyone here.

Date Posted: 12/16/2007 10:59 AM ET
Member Since: 2/14/2006
Posts: 88
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Well it is a done deal. I accepted it.  When I marked it recieved I did note the condition of the book in the area to leave notes for PBS. I also noted that I would not consider it in good enough condition and would NOT be reposting it.   In this case I feel good about how I handled it.

On to the Great Swaps!

Sharon



Last Edited on: 12/16/07 11:01 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/16/2007 12:01 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2007
Posts: 1,837
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I would say it was definitely unpostable, for several different reasons (not the least of which is the water stain).

Date Posted: 12/16/2007 3:11 PM ET
Member Since: 11/8/2007
Posts: 143
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Hi Sharon,

  I'm like you, not wanting cause people trouble. I think you handled very nicely. It is Christmas after all. A little niceness never hurt anyone. And putting it in your comments keeps it more impersonal.

I think I would put them on my buddy list and remember that they deal in questionable condition books.

Merry Christmas!

Date Posted: 12/17/2007 11:57 AM ET
Member Since: 7/24/2007
Posts: 65
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I sent a book one time I shouldn't have, and the person who told me it was in bad condition was very kind about it. I didnt think on it at the time and when she said her points, she was right, I shouldn't have sent the book. Now I'm more careful. Sometimes people get automatically offended, but they shouldn't.  I would tell her if I were you.

Date Posted: 12/18/2007 4:45 PM ET
Member Since: 3/19/2007
Posts: 62
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I would pm the poster as well.  I had a book that was sent to me with binding issues and the poster never even opened the book (the issues would not have been seen without cracking the book) and said they would from now on. So PMing CAN be helpful.

This month I had to mark another book received with problem because its inside binding was not intact in several spots (one spot being about 90 pages long).  I tried to be nice about it in the PM to the poster but I can't repost this book as is and probably can't even read it without it falling apart.  The poster said they had "done the best they could" and so I'm out the point. 

I don't LIKE marking books RWP but if a book can't handle a gentle reading and then be reposted, then what's the point?  I have a whole slew of books to post but am putting it off cause I'm getting a little disappointed with the quality of books I'm receiving.  :(  That's my whine and I'm sticking to it.

Lauren

Date Posted: 12/19/2007 8:48 AM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2006
Posts: 1,956
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PLEASE, whenever you receive a book that does not meet PBS posting conditions, report the problem.  This is the only way to keep the site running smoothly for everyone. 

Almost every time I get a damaged book, the sender says "Well, that's the way I got it from here, and it was fine with me."   So, the members who use the system the way it was intended and report problems look like complainers, and people who send unpostable books begin to think it's acceptable.  If everyone is consistent and uses RWAP when appropriate, it would really help to weed out the bad traders and damaged books.

Date Posted: 12/19/2007 7:19 PM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2005
Posts: 69
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Well said, Danielle!

If people aren't marking unpostable books as RWAP, then it's only going to encourage people to keep posting books that shouldn't be posted. It's not being picky or making waves. It's using the system as it was intended and helping to make the site better for all of us.

Date Posted: 12/19/2007 10:29 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2006
Posts: 399
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Eh, I'm good with your choice, Sharon - I'd have probably done the same.  Every book has to be retired sometime, by someone - might as well be me.  The system gives everyone an equal chance of being "the last reader", so it's fair.  Like you, I wouldn't repost it - to me, the posting requirements are something I agreed to when I joined, so even if my personal standards for being happy with a received book are laxer than the site's, my standards for posting a book are actually a bit higher (I won't send a book with a broken or cracked spine, no matter the degree).

If you feel good about it, it's a good decision. :)

Edit to make one clarification - I *have* marked books as "Received With A Problem".  Those aren't the ones I'm talking about here where it's a call between "one more read" and "worn out".  I've gotten books that were completely, clearly and totally unacceptable by anyone's standards that no conscientious member would ever think to send and I reported them immediately.  The ones that I considered "judgement calls" or possible oversights, I usually shoot off a polite PM that, while I'm happy to have the book, they may want to take a look at the posting guidelines again.  Most of the time I get back a very nice PM that makes it clear that the sender didn't realize the flaws were a problem.



Last Edited on: 12/19/07 10:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/19/2007 10:32 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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Also marking a book RWAP everytime helps set up a pattern. Say poster A has had 25 books marked RWAP then its obvious that poster A is a problem. But if you dont use the system the way its designed and RWAP isnt used then Poster A may have sent out 35 bad books but only been marked RWAP 3 times so they arent flagged and can continue to send out crappy books. Marking RWAP is what should be done when you recieve a book that violates posting condition. If you wanna be nice to the person dont ask for your credit back.

Date Posted: 12/20/2007 5:47 PM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2005
Posts: 69
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To add, I'd like to point out that according to the OP's first post, the book had water damage AND missing pages, so it's not really a judgement call for that book. The book isn't postable and should have been marked RWAP.

The system can't work if we don't use it correctly.

Date Posted: 12/20/2007 6:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2007
Posts: 3,326
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I received a book that I ordered for my daughter that fell apart about 10 minutes after I marked it received. The cover was hanging by a few shreds of paper and it fell off.  My daughter read it and then threw it away. The first copy of this same book came with severe water damage and what I would call "excessive wear"  I did mark it RWP, and the sender refunded my credit right away. Two copies of the same book that I threw away. I still need to find a "keeper" copy for her.

Recently a receiver of one of my books wrote me to say that the book was water damaged -- but it certainly wasn't when I sent it! It did have several "dents" on the front cover from being squashed down in a box with a bunch of hard-backs.  It was within PBS rules when I sent it and it was old and had yellow pages, but it was in very readable condition.  The receiver said he/she was going to read it and throw it away. I figure if it was readable, then it must not have been too damaged!

Today I received a book that is very chewed up on the two front corners -- either a small puppy or a large bird had a go at the cover and first 25 pages or so.  It's readable, so I'm not too worried about it.

I think people just don't READ the rule for postable books, or don't remember what the rules are if they haven't read them in a while. If a book is *clearly* with in the unpostable rules, it should be marked RWP, IMO.

 

Date Posted: 12/20/2007 6:37 PM ET
Member Since: 9/7/2007
Posts: 35
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what do you do if you push recieved without a problem and find out later it has a problem? There is probably nothing you can do about that is there

 

Date Posted: 12/20/2007 6:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2007
Posts: 3,326
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No, I don't think there is much you can do except PM the sender and let them know that the condition was questionable to begin with.