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Topic: Do you mark a RWAP resolved if you don't ask for a credit refund?

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Subject: Do you mark a RWAP resolved if you don't ask for a credit refund?
Date Posted: 2/17/2010 10:40 AM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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I got a cookbook yesterday that I had WLed for close to 2 years, and sadly, it is full of highlighting.  The sender did not PM me to get my OK about this before sending the book, so I marked it RWAP and explained to them what the rules are about cookbooks and textbooks requiring PMs before sending.  I also said that I am not requesting my credit back.  So should I mark it resolved?  I haven't heard from the sender since I marked the book RWAP, not that that is necessary, but....I guess if it was me, I'd at least apologize.  I'm just not sure what the general process is about marking transactions resolved if there is not a credit refund involved.  Any idea?



Last Edited on: 2/17/10 10:41 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/17/2010 10:48 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
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I would leave it open if I didn't get a response.  If I got an apology then I would mark it as resolved. 

I won't usually mark a book RWP unless I am going to ask for the credit back.  If it's a minor issue than I'll make a note of it when I mark the book received so it's on the transaction file with PBS.

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 10:52 AM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
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I generally wouldn't have RWAPed it either, except that I did want to get back on the WL and the only way to get back on at #1 is to mark it RWAP.

Anyway, thanks, that is what I was thinking as well.  It would be nice to at least get an acknowledgement from the sender, if not an apology.

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 11:27 AM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
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I agree with Mary, Lesley.  I *have* marked things RWaP before but not requested my credit and I will mark them Resolved, but not if I don't even get a reply. 

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 12:28 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
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If I am not expecting a credit back, I always mark it resolved as soon as I send the RWAP PM. And, I say that I am doing that in my PM.

I am not sure I understand the idea of punishing them if they don't apologize.

If you are not asking for a credit back, then the RWAP has been resolved. IMO.

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 2:14 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
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I don't disagree with you, Sara.  That's why I'm a bit unsure of what to do.   It's not that I feel the need to punish the sender- I guess I'm kind of hung up on the term "resolve".  I'm not asking for a refund, but there are other ways to resolve a problem.  Apologizing seems appropriate- that would make it seem "resolved" to me.  I am out the credit, it just seems the least that someone could do when they send an unpostable book, especially one that I've been waiting more than 2 years for.  But of course, there's no rule that says that an apology is necessary.  It's a weird gray area to me.  The rules say you can ask for a refund if you want to.  I didn't feel the need to, I just feel that some acknowledgement is appropriate, but how do you ask for that without sounding like a heel?  And, does it actually *make* me a heel to want some acknowledgement, if not apology, from the sender?  I think it's just good manners.  It's what I teach my kids to do if they inconvenience someone- acknowledge that they put someone out and apologize for the inconvenience.

I am going to let it hang for awhile.  It hasn't even been 24 hours since I marked it RWAP, and it's not that I'm impatient (ok, maybe a bit) but since I've never had a RWAP where I didn't ask for a refund before, I just wasn't sure what constituted "resolved" in a case like this.  It seems subjective, and maybe that's the point, and maybe the reason there is nothing specific in the HC about this.  Thanks for the feedback.

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 3:04 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
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I'm curious as to why you aren't asking for your credit back if you are going to order it again from someone else (getting back on the wish list).  The book clearly did not meet PBS standards because you didn't approve the highlighting, so you have the right to ask for your credit back.  That's what I would do.  If people violate the rules on PBS and no one ever does anything about it, they will continue their bad behavior with others.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 2/17/2010 3:22 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
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The book -should- be marked as RWAP, even without a credit refund request.  Marking problem books as problems is the way that this site maintains quality control, and it is part of the correct book receiving procedures/how the site is set up.

You should mark the transaction as resolved as soon as you feel it is resolved.  However, if you expect a response to feel it is resolved, you should ask for one in your message to the Sender, and state a deadline for you to hear back in order that you can mark this transaction as resolved in a timely manner.  (example:  Please get back to me by the end of the week; I would like to mark this transaction as Resolved in a timely manner, and I will do so once I've heard from you.)  Otherwise, the Sender may not realize you would like to hear back for this to feel resolved to you.

ETA:  Since the book did violate posting guidelines with the highlighting, you have the right to ask for credit refund so you can order another (good) copy of this book...



Last Edited on: 2/17/10 3:22 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/17/2010 3:51 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
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And, does it actually *make* me a heel to want some acknowledgement, if not apology, from the sender? 

No, of course not. And, of course, it would be nice if they apologized. It's just to me, the thing is resolved once I decide if I want my credit back. If I don't, then the whole thing is done for me. I don't want to wait for a response and then see if it is "nice" enough. I just mark the thing resolved. Its just a nice bonus after that if they respond.

I'm curious as to why you aren't asking for your credit back if you are going to order it again from someone else (getting back on the wish list). 

Well, I understand why she might not want to ask for her credit back. The book is postable if she reposts it and follows the writing guidelines, so she can recoup her credit that way. And for a cookbook (that are usually not posted much) ... it is likely that it will have a taker who isn't bothered by the highlighting. Especially if they also have been waiting 2 years for it! :)

Not that this excuses the first sender, of course. They could have easily PM'd about the highlighting as well. And, I know that the OP will be out the $ for the postage if she does choose to send it to someone else.

I'm just saying, I get why she might not want the credit back in this case. It is probably what I would do, too. I don't usually ask for my credit back in a RWAP unless the book is clearly and unmistakably unpostable, and I am definitely ging to reorder the book. Sometimes I mark the RWAP so that the person knows not to do it again, but if I was planning on keeping the book anyway, and the thing wrong with it isn't gross (like food stains or mold), then I will usually let the credit go.

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 3:58 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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I didn't ask for a credit refund because it's not that important to me- I have more credits than I can use, so it's not about the credit.  I just really want the book (a nice copy).  It was disappointing to have waited so long for this one and have it highlighted throughout.  I suspect that the sender is somewhat new (< 6 months) and all I really care about at this point is that they understand what they did wrong.

And I get what you're saying Sianeka.  I figured I'll give the sender some time to respond, as that's only fair.  If they choose not to respond in any way, I'll just chalk it up to someone having a different idea about etiquette than I do and move on.  In the grand scheme, it's not a big deal.  I'm not brash enough to tell someone that they should acknowledge the fact that they sent me an unpostable book and I cut them a break by not asking for the credit back.  If they do, it would be nice, but it's not such a big thing that I'm going to dwell on it or let it ruin my faith in humanity as a whole, lol. 

Edited to add, Sara, I probably will end up marking it eventually even if I don't hear from them.  I just think it's fair to give them time to respond, and that way I can thank them for their response and let them know I have marked it resolved.  I just started wondering in the meantime what most people usually do in cases like this, since I'd never run across it before.  I'm not waiting to sit in judgement of whether they're sorry enough- I'm not *that* rigid and unforgiving, LOL!  Just going through the "what if" scenarios.  I generally try to keep it in perspective, which is, basically: it's just a book.



Last Edited on: 2/17/10 4:03 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Kate -
Date Posted: 2/17/2010 4:25 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2008
Posts: 534
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Edited to add, Sara, I probably will end up marking it eventually even if I don't hear from them.  I just think it's fair to give them time to respond, and that way I can thank them for their response and let them know I have marked it resolved. 

I think that's a good plan. I would want to leave my options open for a while just in case the response was nasty. Then I might regret marking it resolved!

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 6:16 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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For me it's not so much about wanting to "punish" them by leaving it unresolved or marking as "not resolved" by the sender. It's more about PBS having it on record that this person didn't even respond to the complaint. Then if it's a habit for them it helps get them out sooner.  If it's the only complaint they've had on PBS then it doesn't really hurt their account in anyway.

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,600
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I would not mark it resolved. The reason isn't to punish the person per se, but as someone else said, to make PBS aware of how the person behaved. A) They sent a highlighted, written in cookbook without confirming with the receiver it was okay and then B) they didn't even acknowledge her PM. The OP probably just wants to give them benefit of the doubt, but what if they do this a lot? Resolving the RWAP is not doing anyone else who might order from the person any favors!

Cheryl

Date Posted: 2/17/2010 7:14 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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Mary and Cheryl, you both  make a very good point, and I had not thought of it that way.  Hm.  Maybe I should just leave it unmarked then.  I did make a note to PBS when I marked it RWAP that the book had highlighting that I was not informed about prior to it being mailed and that I chose not to request a refund, but perhaps it is useful for PBS to be aware if there was no response to my PM.  Thanks for the additional feedback.



Last Edited on: 2/17/10 7:15 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/17/2010 9:03 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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I didn't ask for a credit refund because it's not that important to me- I have more credits than I can use, so it's not about the credit.  I just really want the book (a nice copy).  It was disappointing to have waited so long for this one and have it highlighted throughout.

It really should never be about the credit really.  I agree that it should be about being a responsible PBS member - on both sides of the swap.  It's the only way PBS gets the information.  And it's the best way to get the information
to members who aren't informed or who are ignoring the guidelines.  For the system to work well for everyone we all have to do what is necessary.  We all want high quality used books.  We all want PBS to be about high quality all around and this is the best way.  JMO  ;D

Ruth

Date Posted: 2/18/2010 12:33 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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What Mary said.  I probably wouldn't mark the problem resolved until/unless I heard from the sender.  I would be looking for an apology, understanding of the problem, and/or especially some reassurance that the sender will educate themselves as to PBS guidelines...and hopefully avoid the same problem for another receiving member in the future.

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 2:37 PM ET
Member Since: 1/4/2009
Posts: 294
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Sara writes: "I don't usually ask for my credit back in a RWAP unless the book is clearly and unmistakably unpostable, and I am definitely going to reorder the book."

This is such a grey area, and I've puzzled over it time & time again: whether I feel justified to ask for my credit back, even if I don't plan to re-order the book. For example, I posted yesterday about a nonfiction book with torn pages--small tears, not tears that make the book unreadable. I got two answers to my question of "What would you do?" One person said they'd mark it RWAP but not ask for the credit back; the other said they'd mark it RWAP and definitely ask for the credit back.

I don't intend to re-order that book. I intend to read it as is. But I won't be keeping it as a reference. I sort of feel justified in asking for my credit back, because if the book didn't have torn pages, I would have wanted to keep it. On the other hand, if I really feel that way, why am I not re-ordering it? Well, because it's not that important of a reference, just one I would keep if it were undamaged.

This sort of quandary drives me nuts! =tearing hair out=

What it gets down to is this: if you get an unpostable book, but you'd like to read it anyway--or even keep it, God forbid--does that mean you're a jerk if you ask for your credit back?

Fiona



Last Edited on: 2/19/10 2:45 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 2/19/2010 2:55 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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I don't think anyone is a jerk for wanting their credit back, Fiona- credits are currency here, and if you pay for something that is not in the condition that it should be, it's ok to want a refund.  There are many perspectives on credit returns, and different reasons for having them- for me, I am more concerned with getting a credit refund for an unpostable book if I don't intend to keep it, because I won't be able to repost it here (which is what I do with most books I get here).  I keep very few books, and though I do want the ones I keep to be in decent if not nice condition, the postability aspect is not as important in those cases.  The cookbook that I posted about receiving is one that I intended to keep, and if it had only minor issues I probably wouldn't have minded.  But it has quite a lot of highlighting- almost the entire appetizer chapter is highlighed, and a few salads as well.

As far as reading a book that you intend to return to the sender, if it's readable, why not?  Just say it may be a week or so before you can get to the post office to send it back, and go ahead and read it.  They don't have to know. ;)

To update my situation, I still have not heard a word from the sender.  Oh well.

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 3:07 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,852
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if you get an unpostable book, but you'd like to read it anyway--or even keep it, God forbid--does that mean you're a jerk if you ask for your credit back?

Well, the way that I kind of figure it out is:  If I can use the book for the purpose for which I intended it, then I don't typically ask for my credit back.

If I intended to read it and keep it, then as long as it is not gross or falling apart, I let the credit go. (I have done this with some that had some writing or underlining, for example, because it wasn't so extensive as to make the book unreadable, and it didn't make the book gross. I did RWAP them, so that the senders would know that they shoud check the books more carefully in the future.)

If I intended to read it and repost it, but I can't repost it, and the damage is obvious or should have been obvious, then I ask for my credit back.

If I intended it as a gift to someone else and I had an RC, but the book doesn't meet the RC, then I ask for my credit back.

If I am keeping a book (even if it arrives unpostable) and it doesn't need to be re-ordered because I can live with whatever the damage is, then personally, I would feel like a jerk for asking for my credit back. but, that's just me .... I wouldn't necessarily expect anyone else to feel the same.

To me, it is like buying something at the store and then taking it home and discovering it is damaged somehow. Sometimes you just live with it, and sometimes it is worth the effort to return it to the store and exchange it.  Like if I buy a DVD and then discover that the plastic case is damaged. Do I bother to return/exchange it at the store if I can still watch the DVD perfectly well? ..... Maybe, depends on why I wanted the DVD. If it is just for me, then I probably wouldn't bother. If i was going to give the DVD to someone else, then I probably would make the effort to return it and get a perfect one. It just depends on the situation.



Last Edited on: 2/19/10 3:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/19/2010 3:51 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
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If I don't ask them to do anything further to resolve the issue, then I mark it as resolved. Many people will consider the transaction over if they are not asked to do anything else. Responding may seem pointless since nothing was asked of them.

Fiona - I am one who said I wouldn't ask for the credit back. That is me at my current credit balance. There has been times where I asked for every one back because I ended up low credits after losing about a dozen on unpostables and getting stiffed on a loan repayment. I got sick of it and started asking for credits back on all unpostables. I don't think anyone should ever feel like they can't ask for their credit back if they receive an unpostable book. Sometimes I believe asking for credits back all the time the only way to make people stop sending unpostables, but sometimes I feel that it really could have been missed and I can use the book and they paid to send it so I can be a little more generous and share in the loss.

Date Posted: 2/19/2010 9:59 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
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I had a book come in the mail once that had water damage/staining, but there was a hole in the wrapper from a postal machine.  I marked it RWAP by the post office.  Obviously, since I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, and marked it RWAP by USPS did not ask for the credit to be returned. Since I had the send the sender a message box,  I simply asked that when the person receieved my pm to let me know so that I could mark the transaction resolved, and gave some wrapping suggestions.  (Because what would the resoulution really be?)

  My response was "Why should I be out a credit, when the post office ruined the book.  Don't expect me to return the credit to you"  (or something along those lines--it was awhile ago)  I simply answered that I did not ask for my credit back, I just wanted confirmation that he /she had gotten my message, so that I could mark the transaction resolved, and since obviously they receieved my message, I would mark the transaction resolved.

After the fact, I realized that it kind of was a stupid move on my part.  Was that step really necessary?  I have a feeling the book was damaged before I receieved it, because the liquid damage looked like coffee, and I've yet to see the USPS pour coffee inside envelopes of books :)  Sure it would have been nice to get an apology, but not everyone has manners or a consicience.  I decided then that I was never going to do that again.  I hate confrontation, anyway...but I had wondered, apparently as others have, how to say a problem is resloved if there is no further communication.  It seems like there is no real answer to this question.

Date Posted: 2/20/2010 6:10 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
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I agree with the others who say that you should mark it resolved if you didn't specify in your PM what you required in order to mark it resolved.  Whether it's a returned credit or an apology - the sender can't read your mind as to what you feel would resolve the issue.  A line in the pm such as "I will mark this issue resolved after you reply to this message" would be sufficient.