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Topic: Would I mark this as RWAP?

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Subject: Would I mark this as RWAP?
Date Posted: 5/23/2011 6:16 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2011
Posts: 3
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One of the endpages of the book seems to have been torn from the book or the paper over the binding separated from the title page, exposing the binding. The threads seem to now being come undone, and since the pages aren't bound to the back of the spine, the very bottom and top of the book are only held by the back of the book. The middle is held by the exposed sewn binding. Since the pages aren't completely hanging from the book, I wasn't sure if this would be considered "separation on the inside or outside of the book" that the book condition critera mentions. Or would it be considered a ripped page since I think the cover would be attached to an endpage that doesn't seem to be there since the first page is the title page?

Here's a picture of the bottom in case my description doesn't make sense:

http://imageshack.us/m/600/1711/booko.jpg

The rest has a little bit of paper covering it, but if you look at it sideways, it is also exposed.

http://imageshack.us/m/812/1811/book2w.jpg



Last Edited on: 5/23/11 6:17 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/23/2011 6:46 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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That looks like spine seperation, and if so it's unpostable. 

ETA: The book does not have to fall completely out of the cover for it to be considered damaged. If the pages aren't firmly affixed, it's damaged. I would RWAP.



Last Edited on: 5/23/11 6:47 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/23/2011 6:54 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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RWAP.The front cover has seperated from the spine from the looks of those pics. 

Date Posted: 5/23/2011 7:51 PM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2008
Posts: 1,412
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I would also RWAP that book.

Date Posted: 5/23/2011 7:58 PM ET
Member Since: 4/5/2010
Posts: 2,102
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Yeppers

Date Posted: 5/23/2011 9:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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Not torn pages if you just suspect there is something other than text pages missing because non-text pages can be missing, if the page was there and torn, then it would hit that rule because the no torn pages doesn't specify text pages only. But it is definitely spine separation and not postable. 

Date Posted: 5/23/2011 10:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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 I am stunned someone would mail that book....

Lisa W. (WAL) -
Date Posted: 5/25/2011 6:20 PM ET
Member Since: 3/7/2007
Posts: 718
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You are lucky then Kim!

I seriously have gotten at least 50 books or more like that this year alone!

I even have picture links in my RC's and that hasn't helped....

Here are my RC's They Are Long but keep trying to make it clearer and clearer...LOL:

 

NORMAL SWAPS: 
Please Only Postable Books & No Cleaved Books, They are not postable anyway but here are some pictures if you don't know what a cleaved book is:
i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/rubberducky102760/8_299.jpg
i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/rubberducky102760/2762798875_d3dec5c5e0.jpg

Hard Covered Books:  I collect 1st Edition books published in 1992 and only want those with a Dust Jacket. Dust Jacket doesn't matter on any other hardcovered books.
THANKS,
Lisa

BOOK  BAZAAR  DEALS  ONLY:  ( If you don't know what I am talking about then ignore this)
      IF this ORDER is PART of A DEAL you offered then PLEASE DO NOT CANCEL IT
  I requested the book only because of the DEAL and if you cancel it the order will go into FIFO
        automatically and  I will end up getting 1 book for 1 credit by itself instead of the deal   
ALSO I EXPECT ALL BOOKS in a DEAL to be POSTABLE unless noted & NO CLEAVED BOOKS
*********   IF A PROBLEM with the DEAL order PLEASE PM me & I will Cancel It - Thanks!  *********

BOXERS ONLY:
NO CLEAVED BOOKS! Please CHECK all BOOKS for CLEAVES, I have been getting ALOT of CLEAVED books from BOXERS. Also, (at 39cents a pound), I don't pick books based on weight but by what I want & want you to do the same :) Credit Value (at $2.50 a piece) is what matters to me so as long as our "credit" value of the box equals in the end I am happy! (I will give 2books=1Audio and would like the same)
  

Don't know what more I can do about it especially in boxes & deals....

Take Care,

Lisa

 

 

Date Posted: 5/25/2011 7:31 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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Lisa, this link->  i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/rubberducky102760/2762798875_d3dec5c5e0.jpg

is to a postable book.  The rules do not say anything about cleaved books not being postable even though members use it when they refer to an unpostable. The rules say no separation, which IMO this book does not exhibit, it shows pinhole cracks. But my opinion aside, I don't believe that the Team's interpretation of the rules say it is unpostable either. I think you are probably getting so many books that you believe are unpostable "cleaved" because your definition of unpostable is not the same as what the Team has said is not postable.

http://www.paperbackswap.com/What-Cleaved-Spine/topic/150725/?#p4464980

 

335888268.jpg
 
medal_silver.png
 
Date Posted: 1/27/2009 7:49 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058

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Okay... so I sent a clarification request to the PBS Team, and this is what I got back:

Dear Kim,

We would not consider a pinhole to be a cleaved spine. Books that fall open to a specific
page are postable, and almost every paperback book that does that has at least some small separations.

What matters here is if the pages are securely attached. If they are likely to fall out on the next reading, then the book should not be posted. We really cannot clarify this any further. We need members to use their common sense and best judgment about whether a book is about to fall apart or not. This is just not something we can judge without having the books in our hands.

So I gather that pinholes & cracks in the binding are acceptable as long as the pages are securely attached, and don't look to be tearing loose along any of those perforations.  As with most of the rules, common sense is key.  I think I would take some extra care when packing books like this to ship, just because they could pull loose with any kind of rough handling - such as the USPS manglers so frequently dish out to our poor, defenseless books:P  Anyhoo, hope this is helpful to everyone:)


 

 



Last Edited on: 5/25/11 10:57 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 5/25/2011 10:27 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,860
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Yes, that second link is a postable book.

Lisa W. (WAL) -
Date Posted: 5/25/2011 11:36 PM ET
Member Since: 3/7/2007
Posts: 718
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I'll have to look back but I got those photos from here as examples of unpostable books...

Ok, I just found the post where I got those pic links from and initially it was saying they weren't postable but then it was clarified that technically the second was postable but I have yet to recieve one of these kind where the page doesn't detach the moment I turn it. I will adjust my RC's to indicate the 1st is not postable and I don't want the 2nd either because chances are it won't be postable after I read it.

Hasn't stopped getting either type anyways... Today the page fell out to the floor when I opened the book that came today.

http://www.paperbackswap.com/What-Cleaved-Spine/topic/150725/?l=25&ls=0#p3043278 

Take Care,

Lisa

 



Last Edited on: 5/25/11 11:52 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/26/2011 5:32 PM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2008
Posts: 2,207
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My first RWAP was documented a few minutes ago. I don't have a camera so I can't take a picture but the book I requested opened up directly to pages 188/189 and 190/191; the page in the middle (189/190) will probably fall out with the next reading. I almost didn't RWAP but I've taken in some iffy books but this time you could see the spine. Cleaved spine, cracked spine - a rose by any other name is still a RWAP, I guess.

I feel bad about doing this, whether I get my credit back will be interesting. I don't expect perfect books but....

Gail - here come the guilts again.......sigh.....

Date Posted: 5/26/2011 5:56 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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If you're feeling guilty, try asking yourself if the person that sent you an unpostable book felt guilty taking your credit. They didn't. They were either ignorant of the rules, or did it purposely and hope they'll get away with it. Either way, an RWAP is needed and nothing to feel guilty about. smiley

 



Last Edited on: 5/26/11 6:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/26/2011 9:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,860
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They were either ignorant of the rules, or did it purposely and hope they'll get away with it.

Or they saw the "problem" and honestly believe its postable. Two people can see the same book and disagree as to whether or not its postable here.

Date Posted: 5/26/2011 10:58 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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No, the book is definitely unpostable, as can be seen in the first photo. Believing an unpostable book is postable doesn't make it so. It just makes a person ignorant of the rules, as I've said.

Date Posted: 5/27/2011 5:04 AM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2008
Posts: 2,207
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Thanks, Lisa. Haven't heard from the other member yet but I realize PBS needs to know about things like this, either ignorance of the rules or not caring is at the root of the problem and other members could have the same problem.

Gail

Date Posted: 5/27/2011 12:27 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,860
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I am confused by the conversation. Yes, the OP's book is unpostable, as shown in the picture. I was responding to your answer to pioneervalleygirl's post. Or, at least, I thought you were answering her.

I just meant that in that case, which she described as a problem with a single page, but did not post a picture ... the sender may not have noticed the issue, or may have seen it and still believed that the book was postable if the pages are all firmly attached at the time she sent it.

I just don't like to assume that if I get an unpostable book, that the sender either doesn't care about rules or did it on purpose hoping to stick it to me. I see that there are other things that could have happened, none of which make the book postable, but you can believe that perhaps there was a good intention on the part of the sender, not just bad intentions.