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Topic: will this member still get her credit? (late mailing w/PBS DC)

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Subject: will this member still get her credit? (late mailing w/PBS DC)
Date Posted: 8/31/2010 11:39 AM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2009
Posts: 7,620
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Last Edited on: 8/20/12 11:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/31/2010 11:58 AM ET
Member Since: 5/25/2009
Posts: 598
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The post office does not have to scan the mail until they attempt to deliver. Sometimes the employees at the local PO are nice and will scan the packages there, but they definitely don't have to. Usually packages get scanned enroute, but again, they don't have to be. If she sent it media mail, it easily could have been sitting in a bin waiting for room on a plane or truck for a few weeks, or maybe even just got misplaced at the local PO or sorting facility. 

Also, with electronic postage, you're supposed to send it by the date on the postage. If it's a few days late, they'll usually take it and give you a hard time, but if she sent it several weeks late, there's a chance it would have been returned to her. 

I would give her the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a PO problem and not a late mailing. I think PBS has safeguards in place to make sure you are not out 2 points. 

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 12:03 PM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2009
Posts: 7,620
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Last Edited on: 4/7/14 3:21 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/31/2010 12:10 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,720
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#1 Late Sender--The other member gets her credit because she purchased the PBS DC and it was scanned. You DO NOT mark the book received (because you are already receiving a second copy) and you will / should have gotton your first credit back when the book was marked lost. If you just don't mark it received, you will not be out the credit for this book.

#2 Second Copy-- regular transaction where you paid a credit.

You will only be out one credit for the 2 copies of this book. I agree that it is unfair that the late sender is using the PBS Credit guarantee to get her credit for the book. She is cheating PBS ... because they will give her that credit out of their own pocket (rather than yours). When you receive the book, if it does have a postage dte that proves that it was mailed after the book was marked lost in the system ... I would contact PBS to let them know about this kind of fraud. Because I honestly think that they (PBS) should not be out the credit for this either. The other member is forcing PBS to give her a credit for this book in this situation where you as the receiver are not obligated to give her one.

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 12:13 PM ET
Member Since: 5/25/2009
Posts: 598
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"I am just going to wait until the book arrives and look for any dated stamps/markings by the PO and try to determine when the book was actually mailed."

That's really all you can do... but unfortunately I am not sure how much help it will be. I don't think mail with electronic postage always gets a postmark before it leaves the local PO. It could pick one up enroute, but that might not help you much.

As for your original question, yes, the sender will probably get their credit. If this sender has a history of late mailings, the site will take note of it and take action if necessary. 

But if it's media mail, I would give them the benefit of the doubt. If it's first class though... they probably sent it late!! 



Last Edited on: 8/31/10 12:14 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/31/2010 12:27 PM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2009
Posts: 7,620
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Last Edited on: 4/7/14 3:21 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Cathy A. (Cathy) - ,
Date Posted: 8/31/2010 12:28 PM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2005
Posts: 4,124
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There would be no Acceptance scan if she dropped it in a blue box, so there's no way to tell what happened with this package. It certainly could be a USPS error, and unless you can prove otherwise, you should mark the book received.

As for the credits -- if she bought Printable Postage, then she got an Instant Credit when she marked it mailed. If she bought DC, then she did not get a credit because the book had already been marked "lost in the mail" before it got its first scan. Either way, that's between her and the site owners. You don't have to worry about giving her a credit, you just have to mark the book received if there's a chance it was mailed on time.

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 12:30 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,720
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If she bought DC, then she did not get a credit because the book had already been marked "lost in the mail" before it got its first scan.

Is that how it works? I didn't know that.

I've been looking for something in the rules that says this, but I have not seen anything so far.



Last Edited on: 8/31/10 1:06 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/31/2010 12:40 PM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2009
Posts: 7,620
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Last Edited on: 4/7/14 3:21 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/31/2010 1:02 PM ET
Member Since: 8/17/2008
Posts: 8,381
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Strange things can happen with Media Mail.  Just yesterday I received a book that was mailed on August 7 - no scans until it reached the major processing center 2 hours from here:

  1. 8/7/2010 9:00 AM ET - Electronic Shipping Info Received - ENDICOTT, NY
  2. 8/28/2010 11:04 PM ET - Enroute - DES MOINES, IA
  3. 8/28/2010 11:40 PM ET - Enroute - DES MOINES, IA
  4. 8/30/2010 4:46 AM ET - Arrival at Unit - OMAHA, NE
  5. 8/30/2010 10:48 AM ET - - OMAHA, NE
  6. 8/30/2010 11:18 AM ET - - OMAHA, NE
  7. 8/30/2010 4:18 PM ET - Delivered - OMAHA, NE

I know it was mailed on the 7th because it was sent by a PBS friend and that's the date on the postage purchased at the PO.  The package was in fine condition - we're curious where it was for 3 weeks.  Perhaps a few people along the way enjoyed the book!  LOL

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 1:59 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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There is one possible scenario I haven't seen mentioned.....the sender really did mail on time (I agree it looks unlikely, but it's not yet impossible) and the book still went lost.  In this case you would need to mark both received and would end up spending 2 credits.  The Help Center recommends waiting 2 weeks when a book goes lost before Re-ordering:

Don't re-request the book for at least 2 weeks, unless you are willing to run the risk of getting two copies (and paying a credit for both).

 

Also, just my personal opinion, but i don't really consider the PM you sent on the 13th to have been all that polite: from OP:   I politely PMed her on the 13th asking if the book had been mailed,

and then this is the PM you sent:

hi, just wondering if this book was ever mailed, thanks

I just can't  make "If this book was ever mailed' work as polite even w/ "thanks" at the end.  That could have been a turn off (it would have been for me).

Again, I'm not denying the suspicious looking set of events.  However, as Valerie said, strange things happen w/ Media Mail.  I'm one of those people who had a book take almost 4 months to go from CA to TX.  It had DC, it was never scanned.  The book arrived w/o any USPS markings of any kind.  I mailed when I said I did, and I know the member I sent it to..she got it when she said she did.  What USPS was doing w/ that book in between we're never going to know. :-p

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 2:17 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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"If she bought DC, then she did not get a credit because the book had already been marked "lost in the mail" before it got its first scan."  That's interesting, thanks for posting Cathy.

IMO - TPTB needs to be looking at enforcing late mailing rules, the number of provable and deliberate (un-notified) late mailings seems to be increasing by quite a bit.

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 3:48 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,720
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Although I hate late mailing ... I am not sure how PBS can enforce it, more than they already do.

What would be a fair penalty for late mailing? I don't know.

And there are all kinds of exception scenarios that people would be endlessly contacting them about ... Book gets returned to sender due to senders mistake and is remailed late. Book gets returned to sender due to PO's mistake and is remailed late.  Sender with a good record messes up once and mails late. People who mail with stamps have constant issues with postmarks because they drop their books in blue boxes and stuff sits for unknown reasons before it gets postmarked. Postmark is blurry but receiver thinks it says one thing but sender insists it was mailed on time. And on and on.

I will say, I see people posting in the forums more and more about late mailing ... but I am receiving books in the same time frames that I always did. Most books are coming within 2 weeks of the mailing date, just like they always have. And, I order a ton of books ... I probably average about 30 books ordered a month. I have not noticed any increase in late mailings. There have always been a few, and there are still roughly the same number.

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 5:08 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2008
Posts: 1,976
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I had something similar to Valerie's situation happen to me (I was the sender).  I mailed a book with PBS postage and in the details all it said was:

Electronic Shipping Info Received (with the date)

then nothing for over 3 weeks.  Just before it went lost it showed up as delivered!  If someone had suggested I was scamming the system I would have been offended.

Date Posted: 8/31/2010 11:52 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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  I wished there were another way to record late mailings without marking the book received, but if it is a scam, TPTB should know about it.

Couldn't you just send them an email through the Contact Us link instead? That way you aren't giving them a credit. Otherwise PBS would never know unless they decided to review their account anyway.

I don't know if it's a scam or not, but it sounds fishy. I hope the DC thing not counting if it isn't scanned until after the lost date is true and they don't get their credit...for PBS' sake. They can always contact PBS themselves if it's a PO error and you can confirm that it was just never given an acceptance scan until after the lost date.

The Help Center recommends waiting 2 weeks when a book goes lost before Re-ordering:

Don't re-request the book for at least 2 weeks, unless you are willing to run the risk of getting two copies (and paying a credit for both).

Is this the rule for WL books too? Are you supposed to put it on hold for two weeks? I thought if it was WL and offered to you then the two week ordering rule wouldn't apply.



Last Edited on: 8/31/10 11:54 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/1/2010 12:39 AM ET
Member Since: 4/2/2009
Posts: 7,620
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Last Edited on: 4/7/14 3:19 PM ET - Total times edited: 1