Discussion Forums - Questions about PaperBackSwap Questions about PaperBackSwap

Topic: Got myself an ARC...

Club rule - Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.
Page:   Unlock Forum posting with Annual Membership.
Subject: Got myself an ARC...
Date Posted: 1/30/2009 1:26 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2006
Posts: 47
Back To Top

Do I mark the RWAP page as damaged by sender or wrong book received?


Thanks!

Date Posted: 1/30/2009 1:35 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
Back To Top

Mark it wrong book and request a credit refund.  This is from the Help Center (bolding added)

ARCs cannot be swapped on PBS, since the ARC cannot be depended upon to contain the same story/text as the published book.

  • If you send an ARC, the requestor will probably contact you to ask for the credit back.
    • You will need to do this.
    • You are asked to confirm for each book you Post that it is not an ARC.  If you Posted an ARC you broke the rules. 
  • If you receive an ARC, you should mark it received as a Wrong Book and send a message to the sender asking for your credit back.
    • You should NOT repost an ARC (or any problem book) if you receive one.
  • The receiver of an ARC is not required to return the item; she or he may agree to do so if the sender sends postage for the item's return.  This is the case with all problem books: the requestor receiving them is not obligated to spend postage to return them.
Date Posted: 1/30/2009 1:36 PM ET
Member Since: 2/20/2008
Posts: 1,658
Back To Top

I would say wrong book, because it technically is not damaged and there's no way ISBN and everything is the same as the listing on PBS

ETA:  oops, looks like Lesley beat me to it



Last Edited on: 1/30/09 1:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/30/2009 1:38 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2006
Posts: 47
Back To Top

Ah, thanks.   I've had to do this before (a few years ago - my first book received ever was an ARC) but couldn't remember, and obviously I have selective reading today because I didn't see that in the help docs!

Thank you so much!

Date Posted: 1/30/2009 1:39 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
Back To Top


Last Edited on: 2/3/15 5:47 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Geri (geejay) -
Subject: Got one today = ARC that is.
Date Posted: 2/6/2009 4:15 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
Back To Top

It was easy to find what to do with the help of everyone.  This was my first.  I gues I've covered it all now.  A damaged book, a book that got lost and now an ARC.  Not much left is there?

Just asking for opinions.  This is what I pm'd:

 The book is an Advance Readers'Copy.  These are not allowed on PBS.  I would like to have my credit returned please.

I would like it returned within the week.  If you don't return my credit refund by then I'll have to mark the transaction "not resolved" which will leave a double black mark on your account.

This to PBS:

This book is an ARC.  I have PM'd the sender and requested my credit be returned.

Have I done everything right???

Well, I heard back from the sender and she wants the book back.  She can't believe it's an ARC!  Now, I have to ask her for postage or a credit right?

Believe it or not I almost feel guilty because the book looks unread.  But, there on the cover, lower left hand side, can't miss it Advance Reader's Edition.  On the back it says not for resale.  Big sigh.

 

 



Last Edited on: 2/7/09 12:26 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/6/2009 4:28 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2009
Posts: 176
Back To Top

I have a question on this.  How do mark it when you got the right book title but you got the wrong type?  For instance, you wanted a hard cover but received a paperback.

Date Posted: 2/6/2009 4:30 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
Back To Top

Sheild- it is still the wrong book. so you would mark it as such.  Then in the comments section state that you got a HC and wanted a PB.

Date Posted: 2/6/2009 7:24 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
Back To Top

Um, what's an ARC anyway, and how do people get them in the first place? Are they like the copies of a book sent out free to book reviewers, or what?

Date Posted: 2/6/2009 9:38 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2009
Posts: 176
Back To Top

Thanks Pam!

Date Posted: 2/6/2009 9:53 PM ET
Member Since: 1/4/2009
Posts: 294
Back To Top

Tiffany asks: "Um, what's an ARC anyway, and how do people get them in the first place? Are they like the copies of a book sent out free to book reviewers, or what?"

I can answer that, because I've worked as a book reviewer, which is why the majority of the books on my Bookshelf are brand-new.  I have a lot of ARCs, but the books on my Bookshelf are not ARCs, because they're copies of the finished, published book that's being sold in bookstores, with no markings of "not for sale," etc.  (They're brand-new in the sense of "never been read" because I didn't have time to read and review them.)

An ARC (advance review/reader copy) is specifically sent out to book reviewers-- and anyone else who might bring favorable attention to the book-- usually accompanied by a press kit (written materials such as press releases, news clippings, photos, schedule of signings). The ARCs I received (and now have lying around my house in unmanageable piles (-:) are all marked with approximately these words: "Uncorrected Page Proofs" and "Not For Sale" and "Do Not Quote From Text Without Verifying" and "Advance Reader's Copy" and "Contact [so-and-so in the marketing department] For Additional Information."

The ARCs I got all look, on the inside, pretty much like the eventual book: same typeface, same pagination, same margins. I know that there may or will be changes in the text, because on one occasion I saw a factual error in an ARC, emailed the author, and she fixed it before the book went to press. But my impression is that the changes are small.

They have two kinds of covers, both bound like a paperback:  (1) Thick matte paper with no design on it, in a solid color, usually a pastel, with the title, author's name, etc., including the phrases as mentioned above, in black ink; (2) Thick paper with a glossy finish, with a full-color reproduction of the eventual cover of the book, whether it's the dust jacket of an HC or the cover of a paperback, adorned with the phrases mentioned above, often in little yellow ellipses, and in a long section on the back that spells out various contacts at the publisher's marketing division. Even with version #2, it's easy to tell it's an ARC. The phrases "Not To Be Sold" and "Uncorrected Proof" are highly visible. (Nonetheless, the #2 ARCs can be just as attractive as the final books, in my opinion. They're not cheap-looking in any way, and they hold up well, even to multiple readings.)

End of lesson. <grin>

                                                              --Fiona



Last Edited on: 2/6/09 10:06 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/6/2009 10:04 PM ET
Member Since: 11/2/2008
Posts: 483
Back To Top

Thank you.  I was also curious as to what an ARC was.   Now if I could just figure out what everyone means by FOL  ..  I think they get books there?? 

Date Posted: 2/6/2009 10:29 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
Back To Top

Wow Fiona. Thank you. I just learned a lot. I've been wondering what the significance of an ARC is, and how it's different from the regular book, so it's good to know the answer. Thanks for taking the time to explain it in such detail.

Date Posted: 2/6/2009 10:45 PM ET
Member Since: 4/6/2007
Posts: 1,410
Back To Top


Last Edited on: 6/5/11 1:02 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/7/2009 12:08 AM ET
Member Since: 1/4/2009
Posts: 294
Back To Top

I was looking back through the thread, and I read more carefully what Shannon said about the ARC that Candace got: "I would say wrong book, because it technically is not damaged and there's no way ISBN and everything is the same as the listing on PBS."

For what it's worth, about the "ISBN and everything": 
     --- I  just pulled 3 ARCs at random from my pile and punched their ISBNs into PBS Search. Each one matched with the published book as listed on PBS.               
     --- author, title, publisher (what else is there? I can't remember) are the same
     ---  we're supposed to ignore the cover image
     --- the only iffy area is hardcover vs. paperback: if the book is supposed to be a hardback, and is listed as such, the ARC will still be a paperback; but if the book is a paperback, there won't be any discrepancy

The point being, an ARC meets Wrong Book criteria because as an ARC, it's "inappropriate." (Quotes are quotes from Help files.)  ARCs are defined as "inappropriate" and therefore unpostable. As for the other part of defining a book as Wrong Book because "book did not match the listed item," that's what I went through above. Unless the Booktype is a flagrant mismatch--hardcover vs. paperback--an ARC can definitely match the non-ARC listing in PBS.

It does strike me as inconsistent, though, that Unpostable because it's an ARC counts as Wrong Book, whereas Unpostable because it has (for example) marks in the text area counts as Damaged by Sender. 

While we're at it, the Damaged by Sender choice has another problem: How are we supposed to know whether it's damaged "by sender"? Are we omniscient? In the mere month since I joined the Swap, I've received 2 books with underlines in the text. Neither of them were  damaged by the sender: they were books the senders had picked up as used books, and had failed to examine carefully before posting. What they were, was unpostable.

I think we should go back to Candace's original question:

    Do I mark the RWAP page as damaged by sender or wrong book received?

I admire the way that people more versed in the Help files than I am were able to figure out an answer to this question. But why should there be such an arcane distinction as this, at the heart of a problem that happens pretty often? 

Right now, if you're reporting a Received with a Problem, you have these choices:

Damaged by Sender --> this means Unpostable because it's not in good enough condition, as defined by PBS; it doesn't seem to mean that the damage *has* to be done by the sender (again: how would we know?)

Damaged by USPS

Requestor Conditions not Met

Wrong Book Received -->  this means Unpostable because the book did not match the listed [on PBS] item [...] OR that the book was an inappropriate item (such as an ARC or non-book) and should not have been posted for swapping at PBS

Instead of having this guessing game every time we get a book with a problem, why not clarify things by changing the choices to something like this:

          Unpostable: Poor Condition  

          Unpostable: Inappropriate Item

          Wrong Book Received

          Damaged by USPS

          Requestor Conditions not Met

"Wrong Book Received," in this schema, means *only* that the book does not match the listing for the book the requestor requested. It's the wrong book!

The other part of what was called "Wrong Book," previously, was in fact "not a book" or "not a PBS-acceptable book." So I call that an "Unpostable" amd use the Help file language to describe it: "Inappropriate Item."

And I'm sure someone else could think of better labels for the buttons.

Enough. Long posting. I'll stop now. <smile> I'll be curious about what y'all think.

                                                --Fiona



Last Edited on: 2/7/09 12:22 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/7/2009 12:36 AM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
Back To Top

I think you're complicating it too much. It works as it is. As far as Damaged by Sender is concerned, it just means that it was damaged/unpostable already when it left the sender's hands. Therefore, the sender IS responsible for it, even if they didn't actually do the damage. They should have checked the book thoroughly before sending it. Damaged by USPS means it was apparently damaged in transit, after leaving the sender's hands. Requester Conditions not Met is obvious, and Wrong Book Received means that somehow or other the book is wrong. Wrong ISBN, binding, type, or an ARC. In any case, what you received is NOT something you should have received, for whatever reason. I actually find your suggestions more confusing than what options there are now.



Last Edited on: 2/7/09 3:13 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/7/2009 1:56 AM ET
Member Since: 1/4/2009
Posts: 294
Back To Top

I can see where you're coming from, Tiffany, and I appreciate your broadening and clarifying of the options. I do tend to complicate things when I pull them all apart and try to put them back together again.

I wonder, though, whether the average swapper, sitting there trying to decide whether the book they got is Damaged by Sender vs. Wrong Book Received, understands what those phrases mean--and imply.

I know I didn't. The first time I got a book with underlining, I looked at Damaged by Sender, and I took it literally. I knew that the sender had not done the underlining herself, because she'd told me she'd picked the book up at a Labor Day book fair, and that she hadn't read it. I knew she was responsible, but it didn't occur to me that Damaged by Sender would also mean Damaged before Mailing or Damage for Which Sender is Responsible. Now that you've explained it, Tiffany, it makes perfect sense that the meaning is more inclusive. But still... what about that average literal-mind dunderhead?  (e.g., my earlier self)

So then I looked at Wrong Book Received, and I thought about how *wrong* the book was, not at all the book I'd expected, given the Swap rules about what's postable and what's not. So I punched the button for Wrong Book. And I was wrong. I had failed to grok the concepts involved.

Ah well. As the Bard would have it: "Perhaps she doth obsess too much."

                                                                          --Fiona

Date Posted: 2/7/2009 3:12 AM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
Back To Top

Hmmm, when you put it that way...maybe they should put a brief explanation by each choice, saying what it means? Like, 'book apparently had damage or defect before being mailed', 'book was apparently damaged enroute to you', 'your requestor conditions weren't met', and 'the book you received doesn't match the PBS listing for your request, or is an item that in itself is not allowed to be posted on PBS'? Of course, this all depends on exactly how important the selection you make is. If you describe the problem correctly in your messages, but choose the wrong category, how does it affect things differently than if you chose the correct option? Unfortunately, only the PBS team themselves can answer that question, so I don't know if it makes a difference or not.

Date Posted: 2/7/2009 8:54 AM ET
Member Since: 11/2/2008
Posts: 483
Back To Top

AH-HUH... That makes sense.  Thanks Julie...  Now I will have to be on the lookout for these "Friends"    :) 

Geri (geejay) -
Subject: Clarification please
Date Posted: 2/9/2009 5:48 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
Back To Top

I've requested my credit back for an ARC I received.  The sender has said as soon as I return the book she'll give me a credit.  I in turn sent the PBS rules regarding that aspect requsting postage.  No response so far.

I know I can mark this not resolved and I think I send all correspondence to the PBS team.  Is that right?

Will I receive my credit or will I be stuck with an ARC and lose a credit?

 

Date Posted: 2/9/2009 5:52 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
Back To Top

You'll be stuck with an ARC and out your credit, but at least the PBS will have the bad swap on record. If a person does this too much (ie, just trying to get a credit any way they can) they won't be around long. No one likes conflict, and the temptation is just to "let things slide" but if everyone does that, these folks will keep right on posting non-postable books and get away with it.

You don't really need to send correspondence to the PBS team. They can look at the interaction between you two in your PMs any time they want to. The only way I'd call it to their attention is if the person answers in a nasty, rude way. If they simply ignore your latest PM, not much you can do but mark the transaction unresolved.

Cheryl



Last Edited on: 2/9/09 5:54 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Geri (geejay) -
Date Posted: 2/9/2009 6:00 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
Back To Top

Cheryl,

Thanks!  I was confused.  I had the thought that I had to send the info to PBS.

You're right I'm not big on conflict and I'm was tending toward letting it slide yet somehow felt that was wrong.

Geri

Date Posted: 2/10/2009 6:43 AM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
Back To Top

<<You're right I'm not big on conflict and I'm was tending toward letting it slide yet somehow felt that was wrong.>>

It is wrong, because it just passes the problem along to the next PBS member to deal with when the member does it again. :-)  Nobody's big on conflict, but sometimes it happens.  If she gets rude about it, report her to PBS, since that's not permitted.

Also, it is worth noting that you're not required to return the book, even if the sender wants you to.  That's optional and negotiable. But she does need to return your original credit, and hopefully she will.

Cheers,

Catt

Date Posted: 2/12/2009 12:08 PM ET
Member Since: 2/10/2007
Posts: 7
Back To Top

I just got an ARC too from someone who seems to be a new member.  I dislike conflict, but I followed the proper protocol and sent her a polite message explaining the situation and asking for my credit back.  She sent a message back telling me that the book was brand new (?), and asked me to return it to her.  I believe the implication was that if I return it, she might give my credit back.  I just replied again and tried to politely explain the situation again-----  talk about things being harder than they have to be, sheesh!  If I still get the same response from her a secoond time should I just mark the issue as unresolved?  I wanted to let her know that that was a possible consequence of ignoring PBS rules, but at the same time I didn't want to make it sound like I was threatening her, you know?

Date Posted: 2/15/2009 1:55 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2008
Posts: 253
Back To Top

Oh gosh I hope I didn't send out one.  I don't think I did, but I didn't know what they were until this thread.  I'm glad you guys brought this up.  I haven't gotten any messages saying I did anyway.  Too bad there isn't a section for ARC's.  From the way it sounds, I wouldn't mind reading one.

Page: