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Topic: Never mind!

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Subject: Never mind!
Date Posted: 2/18/2008 9:15 AM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2007
Posts: 1,313
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  ;-)



Last Edited on: 3/15/08 7:13 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/18/2008 10:20 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,633
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Amy, I'm still marking these books RWP.  The way I see it, if the book has separated into 2 or more parts, and is on the verge of coming apart from the spine when I get it, it was on it's last read when the last poster had it, not me.  Definitely not in good condition, and definitely has excessive wear.  And let's face it....a person can send out a water damaged book covered in dog doody and still get a credit for it.  I'm cool with the system the way it is, but if a person thinks that they can send books out falling apart, they darn better believe I am going to mark it RWP, and I hope everyone else does too.  I wish they had left the part about 'no cleaved books' in the help section instead of removing it.  It made sense...I don't know why they got rid of it.

Whew...I feel better getting that off my chest.  :)

Date Posted: 2/18/2008 10:36 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2007
Posts: 2,408
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I try to make it easy. If I'm holding in my hand a book that I would be disappointed in receiving, for whatever reason, it is unpostable. I only post books that I would be happy to receive. I KNOW that the books are used. I know that they won't be in pristine condition. I have received books that look brand new and I've received books that have been well loved. I have not had a problem yet. Common sense is a good thing.
Date Posted: 2/18/2008 12:39 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Amy, I'm sorry, but I don't know how you interpreted that to mean cleaved doesn't make it unpostable. Just because they refuse to give it a name, doesn't mean it is postable. If the binding is showing between the pages, I don't care if you call it soup, it's unpostable according to the guidelines, and I believe that is what they are telling you. They aren't going to get into name definitions, just definitions.

The Help Center is very clear without naming the defect of the binding:

Binding:

  • Must be intact, with no separation on the inside or outside of the book

I think their point is that some people call that a cleaved spine, but PBS chooses not to give it a name, because some may call it a cracked spine, and then you get into name disputes. To me all they have told you in the msg above is that according to the guidelines, it doesn't matter what you call it, if the binding is showing between the pages, it isn't postable. AND that it might not have been separated when the sender read it, but once it suffered another trip thru the postal system and you started reading it, the spine finally gave out and separated, and that that is just part of a books life sometimes. Just my opinion, but that's what I read :)



Last Edited on: 2/18/08 12:40 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/18/2008 1:55 PM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2007
Posts: 1,313
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Last Edited on: 3/15/08 7:13 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/18/2008 3:51 PM ET
Member Since: 10/1/2007
Posts: 230
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I would have to agree with Sherry that the description they give (pages separating from the spine) is what most of us call a cleaved spine, and is therefore unpostable.  I think they are working hard not to add to their existing guidelines; I guess it makes it easier, as they don't have to constantly revise them or look back at emails sent to members.  I also agree with LeeAnne: I do not send books I would be unhappy receiving, but instead offer them as freebies.  That is certainly how I decide about books that seem to be in the grey area, particularly when it comes to what constitutes "normal" wear & tear.  Plus, I think erring on the side of caution makes this a better swapping environment for everyone.  Just my two cents...

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 2/18/2008 6:45 PM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
Posts: 12,412
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They used to state in the posting guidelines that a cleaved spine was unpostable.  I have no idea why they removed that wording - a book with a cleaved spine is NOT in "good condition" by any stretch of the imagination.  What you have described is cleaved - I don't understand why they don't just call a spade a spade.

 

 

Date Posted: 2/18/2008 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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L, if I recall correctly, at the time it was removed because there was all this hoopla over whether a book was cleaved or cracked, and they stated that they were removing the difinative "words" in favor of the "description" which to me covers both a cleaved and a cracked, no matter which you call which. If the binding shows, it isn't postable. They've just refused to use the word spade, it's still a pointed tool that digs dirt :)

Date Posted: 2/18/2008 9:40 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,633
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I received basically the same reply as Amy did last month when a person sent me a very cleaved book and said there was nothing wrong with it.  I pm'd R&R about it, and whoever answered basically said they were sorry that the book was on it's last read, but that all books had to stop their journey somewhere.  Pretty much the same answer Amy got.  The book I received was definitely on it's last read BEFORE it reached me, but the sender said there was nothing about cleaved books in the help section, blah blah blah.  It was still the sender in the wrong, regardless of what you call it, but it would have been nice to have been able to say with complete authority that "cleaved books are not allowed".  At some point though, what does it matter?  If your book is falling apart and you send it anyway, you suck.  And I'm going to mark it RWP.  So there.  :p

Date Posted: 2/18/2008 10:39 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,689
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You could say with complete authority that "cleaved books are not allowed" only you need to quote it from the Help Center

Binding:

  • Must be intact, with no separation on the inside or outside of the book

If someone had sent me an email about a cleaved book I wouldn't have known until recently what the heck they meant but, if someone had said a book that was seperating from the binding on the inside or out I would have understood 100%.  Personally I think it is much better for all concerned to put the definition in the guidelines rather because then there shouldn't be any controversy of what Cleaved or Cracked meant.

The dictionary definition of "cleaved" is "to split apart or seperate."  So with that definition the Help Center clearly states that those types of books cannot be posted.

ok with inflation that is my .05

 

Date Posted: 2/18/2008 10:52 PM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2006
Posts: 1,956
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The dictionary definition of "cleaved" is "to split apart or seperate."  So with that definition the Help Center clearly states that those types of books cannot be posted.

I couldn't agree more.  I remember when the whole cleaved, broken, cracked, separated hoopla was going around.   People were looking up definitions of cleaved all over the internet, and there was still huge disagreements.  All R&R did was remove the word "cleaved" (that so many people didn't know the meaning of anyway) and provide the actual definiton of what they meant.

They are not saying cleaved spines are allowed. They're saying that the rules are clear, and they  are not going to get involved in individual book disputes. 

I understand that you're frustrated though & I agree that more does need to be done.  I think the rules are clear. I just don't think people follow, know and/or understand the rules.  About 1/2 of the books I receive have separation/cleaving & can't be reposted.  I think a picture would say 1,000 words.  One photo would clear up a lot of confusion.



Last Edited on: 2/18/08 10:54 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/19/2008 12:26 AM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Last Edited on: 1/14/14 6:09 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/19/2008 3:16 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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I think part of the reason they removed the words and put the descriptions in instead was because some people didnt know what they meant. I think the description makes more sense cause it leaves no room for wiggle. If the spine is showing its not postable. I also think that they send out that standard we cant comment but every book has a last read sometime line for all questions like this. You gotta think they can not control the inventory so they can not comment on the condition of a book they have never seen.

Its true all books will have a last read at some point but that doesnt excuse sending out books that are already falling apart. If when you get the book its really worn and while reading it you cause the book to fall apart thats its last read. If you get the book and the pages are starting to seperate or fall out the minute you open it the person that mailed it should have never posted it.

Date Posted: 2/19/2008 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,633
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I still would rather keep things the way they are than have credits being held hostage by people making false claims of damage, and I agree that there's no way that R&R can rule on every supposed damaged book.  That line about a book being on it's last read just rubs me wrong though.  While I realize it's meant to placate the annoyed party, it doesn't take away from the fact that the book received was not just worn, but damaged, and posted when it shouldn't have been.  I don't think any harm would come from saying, "You are correct that books that have [insert damage type here] are unpostable.  The section title [insert appropriate section here] of the help section explains why.  We hope this helps."  It's much nicer than saying "the buck stops with you". 

In the end though, it doesn't make a whole hill of a beans of much difference, because if the person posted it that way and won't refund the credit, more than likely, they knew about the damage and just don't care.  Which is why I am adamant about marking these problem transactions RWP so that it eventually catches up with them.