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Topic: New features in Tags

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Subject: New features in Tags
Date Posted: 8/6/2008 1:33 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2007
Posts: 831
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I was looking in the Help Center for something and noticed that there are several functions of the Tags listed that aren't working for me.  I'm thinking that the Help Center is just ahead of programmers, but let me know if the situatrion is the same for you:

From the Help Center:

Introduced 9/27/2007. Improvements as described below to go live 7/28/2008.

You have a new "My Tags" page under My Lists, and a new "My Tag Cloud".

You can view all the books that you have applied the tag to from your My Tags page

 

How do I report other members' tags as inappropriate ?

  • Every tag that wasn't created by you will have an  symbol at the end of the tag. Clicking this symbol will report the tag as inappropriate.
  • After a certain number of members have reported the tag for that particular book, it will be automatically deleted from that book only. This allows members to get rid of tags that are inappropriate for a certain book without removing it from other books where it may be appropriate.
  • You will only be able to report a particular tag as inappropriate once per book.
  • Please use good judgment when reporting tags. Abuse of this feature may result in losing your ability to use or even see tags. Repeated abuse can result in your account being suspended.

 

 

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 1:35 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,129
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Linda, the last message given to us (tour guides) was that the proposed changes would happen some time this week.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 8/6/2008 1:35 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Hi Linda, I think they posted the new Tag pages ahead of implementation so folks would know what was coming.  I know that they've had to make changes to these pages several times. 

So, while the Tag changes are coming, they aren't here yet.  (They are a bit behind schedule, it seems.)  Soon!  (I'm looking forward to searchable tags, myself!)



Last Edited on: 8/6/08 1:36 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/6/2008 1:42 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I'm so glad there's going to be a button to mark a tag as inappropriate. It's really annoying when someone tags a book with the wrong genre or series or something.  I also find the book condition tags annoying but are they really "inappropriate"?  It sort of implies that all the books have this damage but then I know when I see those tags that it's just someone's notes to themself.  Of course then I've seen people complain on here about receiving an unpostable book and the sender said "well I tagged the book w/the damage so you shouldn't have ordered it". 

So should we report book condition tags like we do reviews that are just book conditions?

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 1:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,129
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Yes Mary, inappropriate tags are those referring to the condition of that one specific copy of the book, as well as mistakes like wrong number in series, etc.

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 4:33 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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But if I WANT a tag to remind me that a book is unpostable or remind me of the condition of the book - why would that be inappropriate?  I thought we were to use the tags to benefit US!  

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 4:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 5/19/10 9:19 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/6/2008 5:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,129
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Yes, the new info is a change from the way tags were initially described.  I speculated that maybe there were not enough members using tags to push the individual ones out of sight.  We will still be able to have some of the tags that are useful just to us, it seems the ones to mark as inappropriate are ones that might be confusing to members when they are thinking of ordering a book (like the physical condition tag).  I'm looking forward to the changes so we can see how they will work out, and it WILL be nice to be able to fix actual errors.

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 7:57 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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Just WHO decides what is inappropriate?    I normally am all for the changes on here, but this just seems strange to me.  Are we going to get any guidelines?  Who's going to make sure the guidelines are followed?

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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I'm confused and concerned as well. I use tags a lot and spent literally hours tagging all my TBR books, so I wouldn't accidentally reorder something I already had. Not fun to think of those tags going away, not at all.

I'm annoyed by tags that are innaccurate or contain spoilers, but condition tags are presumably useful to whoever did them

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 8:21 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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There are guidelines in the full HC page, put tags in the HC search to see all of what they say. If you want to use something like "unpostable" for a personal tag, then make it personal. "unpostable" is a public tag, and could apply to anyone anywhere, want it to yours? "Cozis-unpostable"

Why do we have to have changes in the rules? Because a few bad apples spoiled it as with most things. We were getting tags like "Posted for Mary only, all other requests will be refused" "This book has water damage" "I smoke if you don't like it, don't order this book"

Well, not every copy of that book was posted for Mary, nor did every copy of the other have water, and not every owner of the third smoked. So, rules had to be implemented, and some method of enforcing them. We may not like this side of the coin, but the other side was getting out of hand. I personally am glad to see them allow some rules, and some enforcement of them.

Also, the HC states that it will take a certain number of members reporting a tag before it is removed. My guess is that's going to be more than 2 or 3 people, but I have no idea, it's just clear to me that it isn't a one member decision that makes a tag inappropriate.

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 8:58 PM ET
Member Since: 9/16/2007
Posts: 998
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I'm so happy they're making these changes!!  I know I sometimes tag WL books that I have available in another format, and I'm always afraid I'm going to forget to erase it when the book is ordered, so being able to see all my tags will be great.

As for inappropriate tags, it will be nice to be able to get rid of tags that hold mis-information as to genre or series, and yes, all the conditions.  There have been so many posts over the months warning us that it was a bad way to use tags, because it's unfair to everyone who may have a perfectly good copy of the same book.  And sometimes people don't remember erase them afterwards - I've seen conditions tags on books that don't even have any copies in the system! 

I have a few books on my TBR that I have to remember not re-post, but I either use the Note function, or just tag it DNP.

And did someone say "searchable tags????"  Woohoo!!!!!!!!

Date Posted: 8/6/2008 11:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I think like Sherri said that if you're going to post the book's condition because it's unpostable than you should put your nickname in it somehow.  Recently someone posted here that they received a bad book. The sender's response was that she had tagged the book w/the damage so the requestor shouldn't have ordered the book.  So it appears that some people think that by tagging the book w/the damage than it makes them ok to post. 

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 1:24 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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Sherry - thank you for the explanation.  While I still don't agree that it's a good idea (IF people read the rules they'd know to ignore those tags) but at least I understand why it's being done.   As you well know - I don't care for us policing each other.  But it's certainly something that I can live with.  Thanks again.

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 11:03 AM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2007
Posts: 831
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The one thing on my wish list for the tags looks like it isn’t going to be happening: a button to reinforce a tag, so that it becomes one of the more popular on that listing.  It looks like we still have to do it the hard way--type it in or copy it.

I personally don't like the "Cozis-unpostable" idea.   If you are going to use the tags for you personally for something like the condition, the best way would be to use your own abreviation that would not be understandable to other members.  

I'm really glad that there will be a way to remove inappropriate tags.  (I wish that there was also a way to remove the tags that aren't used and that clutter up the drop-down list, like the misspellings that get corrected.)  The one tag that I ran across recently that offended me was one that was promoting hatred toward Moslems, and it was on a book that was about understanding the Moslem  culture.   Now that's inappropriate! 

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 11:04 AM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2007
Posts: 831
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I had no idea that I was going to stir up a hornet's nest!

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 2:31 PM ET
Member Since: 2/11/2007
Posts: 808
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Here is an example of where this new feature will help: I know of a mystery series that takes place in Turkey, but someone has tagged it "Mystery - Egypt" for 4 books. I would like to have that removed as it is factually incorrect.

 

 

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 2:58 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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 button to reinforce a tag, so that it becomes one of the more popular on that listing

There really isn't a reason for this. To reinforce a tag, we need to tag a book with the same tag. That will increase the number of that particular tag on the book, moving it ahead.

I have a tag mission to "double-up" on tags. I've been duplicating correct tags on the books I've been posting to try to bump up the universal tags.

I don't like the idea of someone just removing a personal tag from the database. And I REALLY don't like the idea of adding our own personal data into the tags (user name/handle, names, initials, etc.). I don't want to advertise that I have a particular book to the universe, or to have the possiblity of someone PM'ing me to ask for it as a freebie, KWIM?

Maybe a solution would be to create a "universal indicator" for personal tags. Maybe we could use "P -" in advance of the tag we want to use.

So let's say I wanted to remind myself not to post a book I'm reading, because it's unpostable. Instead of just tagging, "unpostable" I could tag it "P - unpostable", indicating it's a personal tag, and not a universal one.

ETA: I just did a test, and using P- appears to be a viable option.



Last Edited on: 8/7/08 3:05 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 8/7/2008 4:29 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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A simple button to reinforce a tag would make me far more likely to actually do it. I don't like to type. :-)

BTW, I have a huge tag cloud--over 1400--of tbrs with my name on them and no one has ever said a word to me about any of them.  So it'll probably happen tomorrow. ;-)

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 5:18 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,256
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This is probably a silly question, but if I tagged a book I had in the system as having some sort of damage, and someone ordered it how would they know that the specific book they were getting is the one that's been tagged with the damage?   I've seen those tags that say 'damage of some kind' or 'no dust jacket', and I've never been able to figure out of the 20 or so books in the system which one is the one they're talking about.  Pat

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 5:57 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Pat, that's the whole reason behind this change. YOU have no way of knowing if you will be getting one with damage, and the person posting has no way of telling you that THEIR copy doesn't have the damage. So PBS is allowing us to remove those tags that cause the confusion.

As for tags that have our personal initials or names or whatever on them, hundreds of us already do that, so this is not adding to or detracting from that.

And, yes, Cozi, I agree that over policing can come with this, but I think their reasoning for implementing it far out-weighs the bad possibilities that it really is needed. It will probably get a bit of abuse, but since it's not like one or two people can make a tag go away, it will take a concentrated effort or really be a bad tag.

For those that are concerned about re-enforcing tags to give them the extra that the need, you don't have to retype the, you can copy the list of tags that are already there, click the tag button, paste them in, and they will then have another hit by someone. If there are tags in the list that you don't want to re-enforce, simple backspace them out after you paste the list into the tag window.

Also, for the mis-spelled ones, those will eventually go away too, it would be hopeful that those who down-tag them would first enforce the correct spellings, and then they will disappear, I hope, anyway.

These are again just thoughts that I believe, I've had nothing official other than what I stated in my first post about the delay, and what I copied directly from the Help Center. So, I could be missing the mark on a couple things here, but I believe from what I read in the HC, that I've got it fairly close :)

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 10:06 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2007
Posts: 831
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Well, yes, the misspelled tags will not be in the listings, but they remain in the drop-down, making it harder to find the tags that you actually want to use.  Right now, you can only see a few in the drop-down, so it is conceivable that you might have to know the exact spelling and punctuation of the tag you want to use if you want to use a tag that is already in use.  Oops and personal tags have the potential to become the forest in which you can't find a particular tree. 

I wonder if inappropriate tags will ever be removed from the tag list (from which comes the drop-down).  --the Help Center says from the individual listing, but some tags are offensive and removal should be from the list as well.

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 10:11 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2007
Posts: 831
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[ ...button to reinforce a tag, so that it becomes one of the more popular on that listing...]

There really isn't a reason for this. To reinforce a tag, we need to tag a book with the same tag. That will increase the number of that particular tag on the book, moving it ahead.

I have a tag mission to "double-up" on tags. I've been duplicating correct tags on the books I've been posting to try to bump up the universal tags.

Well, that is exactly what I had in mind--reinforcing a tag with a minimum of effort, because if it takes much, there are so many listings that I'll probably only do a few.  I certainly wouldn't do nearly so many as if it was easy and fast

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 10:13 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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I'm thinking there should be a way to remove the unused mis-spelled ones too, Linda, even if it took a group effort to use then tag as bad the ones that need removed? Just a thought I had. Maybe not, but we will see.

Date Posted: 8/7/2008 10:36 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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I think it would be easiest to clean up the tags by simply purging any that aren't in use every night. For example, i accidentally entered a paritally-spelled word as a tag. I deleted it from the book and made a complete-word tag, but the partially-spelled one is there. Simply deleting existing tags that aren't used every night would clean up a bunch of them, I'd think...

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