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Topic: New Overdrive lending rules for ebook lending 15 Mar 11

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Subject: New Overdrive lending rules for ebook lending 15 Mar 11
Date Posted: 2/24/2011 9:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
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Saw this on another forum. Here.

No other links, so can't vouch for it's truthfulness. But if true it looks like one publisher is going with a limit on ebook loans for it's titles starting next week. Once a library loans out a certain amount, it can no longer loan the book from that publisher. Doesn't say which publisher this may be. (My underlining.)

Next week, OverDrive will communicate a licensing change from a publisher that, while still operating under the one-copy/one-user model, will include a checkout limit for each eBook licensed. Under this publisher’s requirement, for every new eBook licensed, the library (and the OverDrive platform) will make the eBook available to one customer at a time until the total number of permitted checkouts is reached. This eBook lending condition will be required of all eBook vendors or distributors offering this publisher’s titles for library lending (not just OverDrive).

And patron's locations may be a future issue.

In addition, our publishing partners have expressed concerns regarding the card issuance policies and qualification of patrons who have access to OverDrive supplied digital content. Addressing these concerns will require OverDrive and our library partners to cooperate to honor geographic
and territorial rights for digital book lending, as well as to review and audit policies regarding an eBook borrower’s relationship to the library (i.e. customer lives, works, attends school in service area, etc.).

 



Last Edited on: 3/15/11 12:39 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/24/2011 11:30 PM ET
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Last Edited on: 4/1/11 7:03 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/24/2011 11:59 PM ET
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This is going to make a lot of Nook owners mad......    1st Apple  now this  sheesh

Date Posted: 2/25/2011 10:58 AM ET
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I would think if someone could prove they were a legitimate cardholder under the rules of that library, then that would be okay.

I think it may depend on if the libraries changed their rules after the ebook contract with Overdrive or not.

Could you get a library card at the FLP before? Any of the other libraries? If not, and they've changed their membership rules since then, then I can see where it might be a problem.

If they've allowed it before, say for audio book downloads, then they may be okay since they didn't change just for ebooks.

Date Posted: 2/25/2011 2:22 PM ET
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Here is a more official announcement -- Harper Collins is the publisher doing this...

 

http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/889452-264/harpercollins_caps_loans_on_ebook.html.csp

 

In the first significant revision to lending terms for ebook circulation, HarperCollins has announced that new titles licensed from library ebook vendors will be able to circulate only 26 times before the license expires.

While HarperCollins is the first major publisher to amend the terms of loan for its titles, two other members of the publishing "big six"—Macmillan and Simon & Schuster—still do not allow ebooks to be circulated in libraries, much to the consternation of librarians.

 

Date Posted: 2/25/2011 4:19 PM ET
Member Since: 3/31/2006
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Am I understanding this right that there are two changes?  One would be that the publisher (Harper Collins as stated above) is going to limit the amount of loans on it's ebooks and once that limit is reached then the book is pulled.  Then the other is residency restrictions with library that use Overdrive.

Correct on that?

It makes me think that they are fighting a losing battle.  Much like when ancestry.com got the idea that libraries were cutting into their business.  They began pulling library subscriptions.  There was an uproar.  And, then they eventually went back to library subscriptions.

Date Posted: 2/25/2011 4:37 PM ET
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Am I understanding this right that there are two changes?  One would be that the publisher (Harper Collins as stated above) is going to limit the amount of loans on it's ebooks and once that limit is reached then the book is pulled. 

Yes.

From what I can tell, for Harper Collins each lending license a library buys would allow 26 downloads then the library wouldn't be able to loan it again. I don't know if they could pay for another license or if HC has an upper limit of loan amounts for their books. No clue.

Then the other is residency restrictions with library that use Overdrive.

Yes.

Sounds to me like some publishers are questioning the abilities of the libraries to loan to people not in their local geographical area. Like the FPL letting out-of-state residents borrow library books.

Ebooks do have geographical restrictions. Amazon, for example, can't sell an ebook to just anyone outside the US. Waterstones, an English book store used to be able to sell to people in the US, but now they can't. Just because a book store sells an ebook doesn't mean you can buy it if it's not in your region of hte world. Ebook rights are sold by publishers to countries/locations seperately, and if a book store in your location doesn't buy the ebook rights, you can't download it someplace else.

It makes me think that they are fighting a losing battle.

It's hard to tell, I think. On ebook loan limitations public demand could just mean the libraries charge more and pay for the second, third, or more loan of a book if it calls for it, and may end up paying less for other books because they don't find the need to renew for loan.

 

Date Posted: 2/25/2011 5:20 PM ET
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It seems to me that libraries would be the ones wanting to crack down on people outside of their geographical area borrowing ebooks. Where I live you have to show proof of residency to get a library card or you have to pay a yearly fee.

 

This will be interesting to watch.

 

Date Posted: 2/25/2011 7:19 PM ET
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Last Edited on: 4/1/11 7:03 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/25/2011 11:05 PM ET
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Cindy, thanks for the explanation.  I'm new to ebooks and did not know about the regional restrictions.

Having worked for a cash strapped larger public library system whose budget was (and is) always on the cutting block, I think this will end up hurting libraries in the end.  Or, I should say it will hurt their efforts to move into offering ebook loaning. Book buying budgets are fairly limited and they are always fighting a battle over budgeting.  In these hard times, it's worse.  I think what will happen is it's going to force libraries to choose between ebook version and paper versions--depending on how they weigh the cost of buying paper books at the library discount or whatever the cost of the licensing is through Overdrive (or whatever system they might be using).

My public library system (which is the one I used to work for) is not a part of Overdrive.  They offer no new books as yet.  Most are books which could be found for free online in public domain collections.

Date Posted: 2/26/2011 2:01 PM ET
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Well Maryland Libraries have Always allowed WV EPH residence Lib cards.  So I guess I ride over there & Re-New my on card!  Only thing sucks Use to be Free Now it $18 per yr per person UGH!



Last Edited on: 2/26/11 2:02 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/28/2011 1:28 PM ET
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Okay, a bit of new info on the geographical restrictions they're talking about here... Here.

Clouds on the horizon (23 Nov 2010)

Last month, the Publisher’s Association set down ‘baseline guidance’ on what libraries should expect when they offer eBooks for lending. That guidance says, in essence, that if you want to borrow an eBook, you’ll have to go to your library in person and download it on to your device there.

You don’t need to think too hard to see that this could, effectively rule out e-lending for many people, including some of those to whom it offers the most benefit.

Campaign group Voices for the Library described the policy as “potentially catastrophic for ebook provision in public libraries” and told me they were particularly concerned about the impact on disabled people.

For their part, the Publishers Association stress the guidance is not a line in the sand – publishers are free to allow ‘remote downloading’ of their titles if they wish, and they’re confident that solutions can be found for disabled users, too, perhaps by registering only certain users for access to remote downloading.

Date Posted: 2/28/2011 3:17 PM ET
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<

Last Edited on: 4/1/11 7:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/2/2011 10:36 AM ET
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I guess this new thing isn't shocking.  The reason I purchased the Nook was so I could read free ebooks from my library.  I guess the publishers are doing their best at taking that option away.

I am very lucky, Overdrive is based out of Cleveland, OH and I have a library card from one of the libraries in the Cleveland system.  The Cleveland system right now has 12,000+ epub titles available, which from what I have gathered is close to what FLP has available.  I have been very impressed with the selection of epub titles available. 

 

Here's the thing, I know that my library pays money each time I download an ebook title, but my library card is free.  I would be more than ok with paying $1 or $2 to download an ebook knowing that it is cheaper than buying my own copy of either the book or the ebook.  I know some people would be upset at having to pay, but why should the library eat the cost of my reading an ebook.  I don't pay taxes in the city my library is located, the library is even in a different county than I live, so I am not paying for any services offered at the library.   

Date Posted: 3/2/2011 1:00 PM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2009
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This actually makes a bit of sense, when you think about it.  A hardcopy book can only be read a certain amount of times before the wear-and-tear (sometimes abuse) makes the book unreadable.  In this way, they are just making E-books in the same manner.  Now, does anybody happen to know if this "26" downloads is comparable to that of a standard hardcopy book?

Date Posted: 3/2/2011 3:24 PM ET
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  Now, does anybody happen to know if this "26" downloads is comparable to that of a standard hardcopy book?

From the articles I've read from librairans, 26 is a very, very low number for the shelf-life of a hardback. Especially since hardbacks can be repaired to continue their shelf life.

And I've also read that the current licensing fees for ebooks are higher, (I've seen up to 150% of list price per book) and that the publishers don't give the same discounts to libraries for bulk purchases like they do with physical books.

And I've read that the "26" from Harper Collins is the major amount of downloads an ebook can have in one year, where there is a two-week loan period built in. They're not really figuring it on 'shelf life' but when they want to renegotiate the contract for each specific book. HC says that that gives them the chance to discount the book when the MMPB comes out, at a lower price. But, frankly, I haven't seen anyone who believes that yet.

I am seeing more calls for boycott. A Publisher's Weekly articles talks more about it. Here.

And there's now more interest in an Ebook User's Bill of Rights, and example Here.  That people who buy ebooks should have certain rights that publisher's can't control.

They're now reporting that in the UK, that several Big Publishers (Harper Collins rumored to be one of them) have been raided by the OFT (Office of Fair Trading) and have had computer equipment and other office documents seised in order to investigate possible illegal activities. (Price Fixing on Ebooks.)  Here.

 

 



Last Edited on: 3/2/11 5:02 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 3/2/2011 4:30 PM ET
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If 26 is a far cry from the amount of times a standard book can be checked out then this is just a money grab move.  Shame on them.

Date Posted: 3/2/2011 5:16 PM ET
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My library orders 4 HB so that be like 100+ checkouts   Books still last for years.   I donated several dog breeding & training books Decades ago  they still look great!   Any way I think 26 is way too low!  Also with eBooks you can check them out for 7 days.  So that makes 52 checkouts!! 

Date Posted: 3/3/2011 5:00 PM ET
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Just saw a Youtube video some libraries made about the lending wear of some Harper Collin physical books, and they apply the HC 26 book limit to these books and compare the loan life.

Here.

 

Date Posted: 3/3/2011 10:31 PM ET
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That YouTube video was made my my local library system! It was just shared on BoingBoing today as well.

I don't object to putting a cap on the number of times an e-book can be read, but it needs to be reasonable. IMO, 26 is NOT a reasonable number. WAAAAAY too small, especially if you look at that video. Books can be read far more than their 26-book cap if the book is not abused.

Date Posted: 3/4/2011 2:35 PM ET
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Overdrive's response to HC and critism by Librarians Here.

Beginning March 7, we are making changes in the eBook ordering process. HarperCollins eBooks and their catalog of titles will be moved from our general eBook catalog to a separate collection. Until we have time to review the effect of these new terms with our library partners, HarperCollins eBooks will not be listed in our Library Marketplace. You will be able to review and order HarperCollins eBooks from a separated catalog, if you so choose.

 

 

Date Posted: 3/4/2011 4:08 PM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2006
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Good for them!!! Makes complete sense and good business for Overdrive to do that.

Date Posted: 3/8/2011 11:57 AM ET
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Well I went to Maryland & got Library card...  Asked about Rules on ebook limits & Overdrive & Limits on Where you live!  Head Librain Dont Know a theing about ANY ot this!!   Got my card & came home!   

Date Posted: 3/8/2011 12:16 PM ET
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I'd check on Overdrive first to find libraries that are participating. I know mine doesn't have much, so I haven't bothered. I wouldn't go all the way to a library to get a card if I wasn't sure they were part of the Overdrive system. Too many places it could be a wasted trip.

Not all libraries are plugged in.

 

Date Posted: 3/15/2011 12:40 PM ET
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Harper Collins thinking of expanding it's ebook lending limit to the UK.

Here.

Phil Bradley, vice-president of CILIP, said HC’s move was a “big concern”. He objected to Mollet’s reasoning, saying it was “patently not the case” that a book would become unusable so quickly, stating a paperback can be “loaned at least 40 times, a hardback more than that”.

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