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Topic: New Wishlist

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Subject: New Wishlist
Date Posted: 3/16/2008 3:45 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2006
Posts: 189
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I have the following confession: I was feeling cranky and negative about the new wishlist system. BUT, after reading the in-depth explanation of how the ranking and points system will work, I have to say that it seems to make a lot of sense, and I will be okay with it when it arrives. :-) I feel like I'm definitely in the minority on that, so I thought I'd share. IMO, it would definitely be worth 10 minutes to go to the help center and read the L-O-N-G description of the new wishlist if you are at all worried or curious.
Date Posted: 3/16/2008 3:54 PM ET
Member Since: 10/4/2007
Posts: 208
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I'm with you.  I read through the explanation...and I think the new WL makes a lot of sense.

Cass

Date Posted: 3/16/2008 4:23 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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I'm with you too...I'm looking forward to the new WL

Date Posted: 3/16/2008 4:25 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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This is similar, if not the same, as the swapacd wish list. I think it's very fair. It is possible that we'll lose ground on a few books, but the system will also improve our positions on a portion of books we rank near the top. So it all evens out.

There are plenty of books on my wishlist that I'm not overly concerned about receiving. They're sort of there out of fear that I'll never get rid of my credits. ha. So I don't mind being in the back of the line for half of them.

Date Posted: 3/16/2008 5:48 PM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2006
Posts: 547
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I was on board the second I found out about the new system.  I just wish the change would happen so everyone could move on with life.  I'm more sick of the wishlist whining than I'm worried about trying to rank a long list of books.

Kerry

Date Posted: 3/16/2008 6:52 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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Yeah, I'm getting tired of the anticipation of the new WL....patience is a virtue I'm short on...

Date Posted: 3/16/2008 7:13 PM ET
Member Since: 10/4/2007
Posts: 208
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Christy - Me too!  I'm one of those people that says "give me patience...and give it to me NOW!!!"

Date Posted: 3/16/2008 7:25 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2006
Posts: 4,110
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I hope for two things, one that they announce well in advance the date of the big change so we have a chance to prepare, in my case remove anything that I am less than #5 that  I can find retail giving those hard to find items a better chance.  I will be very miffed if as with other changes they simply do so in the middle of the night and possibly a day or two go by before I realize it.

And second that they fix the "glitch", and if an WL item goes lost you end up anywhere in line depending on how many points you've lost waiting for it go through the system.  The way it stands now you go right back to #1, not so with the ranking system... This I think causes the most amount of annoyance whining among us who aren't thrilled with the new system.

 

Date Posted: 3/16/2008 7:36 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2005
Posts: 2,357
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My last hope is that they don't remove the RL.

I'm not fond of the new WL--I use it on SaCD and have to keep going in and seeing what I'm going backwards on--and I only have about 50 CDs on my WL there.  Makes it a chore rather than a click & forget until it shows up.  But it's coming, and I'm resigned.

I do want the ability to put WL books on hold. That is a change I'm all for.

But I really hope they don't combine the RL and the WL.  WL on hold and RL will be used by me at least) for different things.  I hope I hope I hope they leave the RL list when they change the WL.  The combined them on SaCD and I really don't like it. It makes the RL list very hard to use.

Date Posted: 3/17/2008 6:22 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2006
Posts: 353
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I just hope that if they have to do this, that it's done well - and they wait until all the bugs are ironed out (*cough*, *cough* SWAPACD! *cough*).

A reranking system that doesn't work as advertised is no fun!

Date Posted: 3/17/2008 9:30 PM ET
Member Since: 2/23/2007
Posts: 181
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Well, I've read it and except for the feature of being able to put a book on my WL on hold, which I consider a benefit (although a minor one), I don't feel one bit better about it than I have since I first heard about the change.

People who are WL'ing mostly books that are popular and that are being posted frequently might  benefit from this change.  It will not, however, benefit me in the least and will simply complicate what is now an easy and straightforward system.  It might be different if, for example, all of the books on my WL were moving at about the same speed so that I was going to be asked to make some choices about which ones I really want most so that others also have a chance.  However, I have popular books and books that are pretty rare.  I've gotten books within days, weeks, and months.  I've been waiting for some books on my WL for over a year.  Some books I'm on a very long list, other books I'm on a short list.  My WL books come in in a trickle.

Here's an example of the problem for me.  In a year I've moved from No. 3 on a WL to No. 2 for one book.  For another book I'm still at No. 3 after a year.  For another I'm still at No. 4 after almost a year.  For some others I've been up in the hundreds and am slowly moving down the list.  Still others I've been slowly moving down a relatively short list.  Still others I was up in the hundreds and I had the books within weeks or a couple of months.  To make sure I don't lose out on those books that are infrequently posted to the system or that are posted only slowly, I'll need to keep them ranked fairly highly.  But that in turn means that I'll be giving those popular books that everyone wants a low rank on my list.  Consequently it's quite likely that I'll have to wait longer for those books than I would under the current system.  I don't see how this is more fair in any way, shape, or form.  And to make it even worse, it will mean that I have to keep second-guessing the system and keep my eye on it if I want to be "competitive".  Actually, I won't bother.  I'll just know that I can no longer depend on PBS to sooner or later deliver a book to me if it is at all possible. 

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 3/18/2008 5:49 AM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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I think it is because of members that are short on patience that this new system is coming.  From what I've read and come to understand, it's being phased in to help new members get their books faster than FIFO, and also to cut down on going through several WL offerings before finally being accepted.

Since I'm one of those folks that really like the FIFO system and think it's the fairest way, I have plenty of patience and can definitely wait as long or longer (never, if I'm lucky -- I should be that lucky!) to get the new system.  And I'm slightly upset at all of the more impatient PBS members that were the cause for the change.

The only thing I'm going to like about the new system is having more than 200 books on WL, but that won't be a help for me in the long run, because of the ranking system, I doubt I'll get any of the books I want anymore.  At least with FIFO, I knew eventually I'd get to the top of the line and someday have a chance at getting the books I want.  With ranking, I just know the books I rank at #1 will be the books not posted, and the books I have lower ranked will be going out to everyone else...

Date Posted: 3/18/2008 1:16 PM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 129
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If its not broke don't fix it! Grow some patience, I am one who is not looking forward to the change!

Date Posted: 3/18/2008 1:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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I agree Michelle. I look at the change from the perspective of the health and longevity of the club, and think it makes sense. I don't see that my top 10 choices will be passed very easily, unless someone who WLed it around the same time as me ranks one higher, and then they have been waiting just as long as me so if they want it more, let em have it. When they are done I can get it. If they keep it, I'll get the next copy. I have patience I don't need to be the first to get every book I have on my WL. Can't read em all at the same time.

Date Posted: 3/18/2008 2:04 PM ET
Member Since: 2/23/2007
Posts: 181
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Melanie - Can you explain how this will contribute to the health and longevity of the club?  Can you explain what is wrong with the FIFO system that it is somehow damaging to the club?  The FIFO system is fair to everyone and is both easy to understand and to use.  The problem with FIFO is really invisible to me.

I certainly don't see that this change benefits me in anyway whatsoever.  If I've been waiting for a book for over a year (as is the case with several books) and then someone else who has been waiting for a shorter period of time--even if it's only a week less--gets the book before I do and I then have to wait for another year, how is that good for the health and longevity of the club? 

Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems to me that the people who think this new system is a good idea are those who put new and popular books on their WL, sometimes even before the books are actually out in the stores, knowing that the books will be readily available relatively quickly.  For those people the new system probably won't make much difference good or bad.  But for those of us who WL both books that are really scarce and that come into the system only slowly as well as the newer popular books it's going to have only negative consequences.

Date Posted: 3/18/2008 6:16 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2006
Posts: 4,110
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The problem with FIFO is really invisible to me.

That is because there isn't one.  Ranking I believe gives some the illusion of control, and if it does it is only to a minor degree.  Because if you rank a book at #2 and there are 100 people wishing for it, and 99 rank it one just what do you think your chances are at getting it anytime soon?  And what about book number 657 (assuming your one of those who feel cramped by a limit of 200 books)?

IMO  the idea that they might sneak past someone in line and get a book before others is probably the biggest selling point for the new WL.  On the surface it all seems shiney, but I think it will come with it's own share of woes.

For starters that illusion that suddenly people who take a long time to respond, or let books time out will be weeded out any faster than the current system is silly.  Those folks will still be around, and no one is going to suddenly decide to develop patience.  And what about the problem with going back to #1 if a WL book goes lost?  No one has said, is it that way at SwapaCD?  Because as far as I can tell it hasn't been "fixed" over at SwapaDVD.  Seeing how books seem to trade on a much larger scale how are you going to feel what that happens to you?  Just like the rest of us you're just gonna have to suck it up, and we'd thank you not to complain about it either.

Frankly I'm getting tired of all those in favor of the new WL insinuating that if I could just read, and/or comprehend the way it's going to be I'd love it too... I have read it, I don't like it.  You do great, I don't and no amount of "explainations" are going to get me to.  I'll live with it, but I don't have to like it. 

Date Posted: 3/18/2008 11:20 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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Melanie - Can you explain how this will contribute to the health and longevity of the club?  Can you explain what is wrong with the FIFO system that it is somehow damaging to the club?  The FIFO system is fair to everyone and is both easy to understand and to use.  The problem with FIFO is really invisible to me.

Sure- I believe there are many new members that come here, post their books, get a bunch of nice popular books requested, then go see they are at the end of long WL lines on all the books they want. When they say anything in the forum they get told too bad we've waited in line you can to, go order one of our old books on our shelves nobody else wants. They get discouraged and leave, never posting another book into the system, maybe not even sending the ones they did post. If they saw a glimmer of hope on even a few of the books they really want then they might stay, continuing to post new books into the system. The more people buying and posting into the system, the more WL books going around. Good for everyone IMHO.

I have never said anything is wrong with the current system nor have I ever said that it was damaging the club. Things CAN be improved on; even things that appear to be working as they are.  We club members do not see what R&R sees. They believe this is good for the club. I believe them.

..but it seems to me that the people who think this new system is a good idea are those who put new and popular books on their WL...

This is 100% wrong in my case. I will probably lose ground on a good portion of my WL. I doubt I will gain ground on any of them.

I really don't know why I posted in here, I promised myself I'd stay out of any thread addressing the WL changes because I am really tired of those of us that think it is a good idea being attacked like we are out to steal everyone else's WL books. I love to share books. If someone else really wanted the book I was reading, I'd hand it to them,  its not like there is only one copy and I'd never get to read it. I'll get my chance and if someone else gets to read it while I wait, I'm happy with that too. 

Date Posted: 3/19/2008 3:03 AM ET
Member Since: 2/23/2007
Posts: 181
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Well, I dunno.  When I was a newbie here, I ended up at about 296 for one of the first books that I put on my wish list.  I figured that I'd probably have to wait forever before I saw that book, but that was okay with me because I got that I was new to the site and that there were already a lot of other people who were here before me who were also waiting their turn.  No big deal.  After all, if I really couldn't wait to have the book, I could have gone out and bought it or tried my local library or searched the USBs online or real stores for a book on sale if I didn't want to pay full price.  As it turned out, I got that book in less than a month.  But then there the other books that I put on my WL at about the same time (about a year ago) that I still don't have and from the way it's been going, that I don't expect to have any time soon--if ever.  So, I guess the bottom line is that I don't have a whole lot of sympathy with this strange idea that these poor little newcomers to the site are going to get all discouraged and go away because they have to take their turn and wait for a really popular book that they could go buy or borrow from their library anyhow if they just have to have it right now.

We club members do not see what R&R sees. They believe this is good for the club. I believe them.

Sorry, but that is naive.  R&R have created a brilliant site.  But that doesn't mean that they are immune from making mistakes.  Part of what has made this site brilliant is the fact that it is clear and easy to use and that it treats everyone fairly.  The proposed changes to the way the wish list works will be a major change to those positive aspects of the site--it's complicated and it favors certain groups over others.  The unfortunate fact is that the wrong changes made to a great site can pretty much destroy it--I've seen it happen elsewhere.  One of my favorite sites is a shadow of itself after its owner "improved" it.  Not that I think that will happen here because of the wish list change, but I do think that it's a change that risks making more people annoyed and unhappy than a change that will make the majority happier.  That will not be a good thing for PBS.

Subject: not in favor of change of wish list
Date Posted: 3/19/2008 9:01 AM ET
Member Since: 11/7/2005
Posts: 34
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when the new list come out I doubt I'll stay on the site.  I've been here 5 years and have PATIENTLY waited my turn at books that I can't get anywhere.  I feel the people who supported the site in the beginning are being dumped overboard.  Just my opinion.  Like ya'll said, if it's not broke, don't fix it.

Date Posted: 3/19/2008 9:10 AM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2007
Posts: 702
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I'm also fairly new to PBS.  I have read the explanation of the new WL and don't like it.  To me, this just complicates the entire site.  I'm not a stupid person but I see no reason for such a complicated process.  I keep hoping that this will be put off indefinitely.

Date Posted: 3/19/2008 10:57 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 5,091
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It does not and never has made sense to me to change a simple system that everyone understands and put in a complicated system which no one really understands in detail except the guy writing the code.  I understand the basic principles by which the system works - I don't need another explanation.  It just doesn't seem to me to be a good idea.

Date Posted: 3/19/2008 11:21 AM ET
Member Since: 10/3/2006
Posts: 638
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*shrug*

My TBR pile is huge, so I'm not overly concerned with when I get my WL books.  I know I'll get them eventually, so if the new system takes a bit longer, that's fine.  If they get here quicker, that's fine also.  If I need a book RIGHT NOW, I go buy it.

 Since it's not my site, and I don't pay to use it, I don't really feel I have the right to complain about the way things are done around here.  R&R are the ones who have the most to loose if the new system blows up, so I feel pretty confident that they've done their research, and that they're doing what they feel is best for the site overall.

 

Date Posted: 3/19/2008 1:01 PM ET
Member Since: 3/1/2007
Posts: 16,946
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I'd like to give the new wish list a try............I like being able to put ind books on hold........

If you want it to work the same;  make all of your books high priority and never put them on hold...........You dont have to rank the books, just keep them all at the highest priority........Seems like that would work the same as the old wish list........

I'm sure if it creates problems, it will be relooked at and revised...........

Does anyone know when it is expected to go into effect??

 

Date Posted: 3/19/2008 1:09 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2006
Posts: 353
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We live in a world where immediate gratification is seen more and more as necessary, if not an outright right. R&R may feel that they are just reacting to that reality. I don't personally agree with either the mindset, nor with the accomodation ("solution" ?) - but it's not my website. I'll also admit that while it doesn't make sense to me, with as much time as I spend here, they spend more - so it's certainly possible they're right and I'm wrong (which of course, does not make it so - I'm just saying..)

 

"If someone else really wanted the book I was reading, I'd hand it to them"

So, uh... whatch'a reading? ;-)

Date Posted: 3/19/2008 1:10 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2006
Posts: 353
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"You dont have to rank the books, just keep them all at the highest priority"

Just an FYI - that's not how it works. Only one book at each rank/priority - being able to put them all at the highest priority would kind of defeat their purpose.

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