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Topic: none of the books' ISBNs are correct

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Subject: none of the books' ISBNs are correct
Date Posted: 12/31/2014 7:27 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2009
Posts: 277
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I just received 8 books from one sender. None of the books have ISBNs despite the sender having posted them as ISBN books. I didn't mark the books as received with a problem because I don't really care that the ISBNs don't match. But I really think someone at PBS ought to give this person a reminder not to post books under the wrong ISBN. I'm not going to do it myself because I think it would be received better coming from PBS than from me. 

Scott (scalta) - ,
Date Posted: 12/31/2014 10:13 PM ET
Member Since: 2/20/2010
Posts: 723
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One of the mandatory conditions of posting a book is that the ISBN must match (if not, then they must post without an ISBN).

The RWAP function can be used as an educational tool.  When you use the RWAP, you do not have to ask for credits back.  Use it to inform the sender about proper posting and the other rules to follow.

The people who run PBS don't follow the forums unless someone brings it to their attention.  If you don't inform them, then who will?  By using the RWAP function, it is all done automatically.


 

Date Posted: 1/1/2015 1:25 AM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,445
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Some books have the ISBN listed on the copyright page. Such as book club versions.

But, as Scalta says, we are basically self governed. We need to report problems to record them. 

Date Posted: 1/1/2015 2:48 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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As already mentioned, one of the rules for posting books is that the ISBNs must match the PBS listing and, if they don't, the books must be posted without an ISBN and let the system assign "short ISBNs" to them.

If the title, author and book type match, I would RWAP the books with a polite comment that the books did not have ISBNs and were posted incorrectly. Also, I would not ask for a credit refund unless you specifically wanted the editions with the ISBNs listed by the system. If you did specifically want the editions for the ISBNs listed however, it would be within your rights to request a refund since the books were not posted correctly.

It might be that the member does not understand how the system works and that books can (and must) be posted without ISBNs if they don't have one. In addition, before marking RWAP, be sure to check the copyright pages to see if ISBNs are listed there because these are not always printed on book covers.

By marking the books RWAP, you will inform the member of the error and your comments will be included in the member's transaction history. PBS will then have a record of the RWAP and take this into account if repeated violations occur in the member's transaction history or future trades.



Last Edited on: 1/1/15 2:54 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 1/1/2015 1:01 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2009
Posts: 277
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I didn't mark the books received with a problem because I had previous dealings with this person and know he is a pill. He had a problem with my requestor conditions which are simply a reiteration of the PBS standards. He accused me of wanting books in "pristine" condition. So I just wanted to avoid nastiness with this person. I'm a chicken. 

Also, these books do not have ISBNs. I didn't overlook the ISBN. I have now added that the books ISBN must be match that edition to my requestor conditions. I shouldn't have to do that. People simply shouldn't be posting shabby, dirty, stained, marked up and incorrect ISBN books.

PBS doesn't do enough to enforce its own standards. I'm considered a grouch simply because I want books that fit that standard. My requests get turned down because of that. 

Date Posted: 1/1/2015 1:48 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2006
Posts: 4,349
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"PBS doesn't do enough to enforce its own standards." 

Without the ability to look at each and every book that is posted here,  how can PBS just know if a member is not posting correctly?  Those of us who receive the book(s) are given a way to let them know.  If you don't want any possible repercussions from the sender by using RWAP, then you should send a message to the PBS Team, using the Contact Us link explaining the problem and why you chose that method of reporting.

Perhaps we should all consider this our 'membership fee'...   A true bargain for me!



Last Edited on: 1/1/15 1:52 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/1/2015 10:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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By not marking them received with a problem you made it impossible for PBS to do anything about reprimanding the sender for this transaction.  They have a system set up to help them enforce their standards but you have to use it for it to work.  Like Anna says, they can't look at every book posted.  They have to rely on the members to report issue through the proper channels.

Scott (scalta) - ,
Date Posted: 1/2/2015 2:15 AM ET
Member Since: 2/20/2010
Posts: 723
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People simply shouldn't be posting shabby, dirty, stained, marked up and incorrect ISBN books.

That is exactly what the RWAP function is designed for.  To weed out those who don't want to abide by the swapping rules.  Or, to at least educate those who may have overlooked something or did not familiarize themselves with the site functions.



Last Edited on: 1/2/15 2:16 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/2/2015 4:13 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,857
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I didn't mark the books received with a problem because I had previous dealings with this person and know he is a pill. [...] PBS doesn't do enough to enforce its own standards

How could PBS do anything about it if you don't report it?

This guy will just get away with the same behavior over and over again if no one reports it.

I don't get the "avoid unpleasantness" thing. In person, would you let someone sell you a dirty, shabby book, or would you speak up and say "Excuse me, I noticed that the book has ..."  You are dealing with people online that you don't know and who probably live far away, in any case. Send a polite message to him and if you get a rude response to that, then report that too, to PBS. PBS will most definitely do something about rude responses to messages (That's because they can read the messages for themselves ... they can't see the books that get traded, and so have no way to evaluate them).

Date Posted: 1/2/2015 9:23 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 9,347
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Along with everyone else's reply, I wanted to add that if you dealt with this man before, and he's a pill, then do not trade with him. I've had 2 problem transactions: one I would definitely trade with again as I felt she was fair, wanted pictures of the damage, apologized and due to her politeness and apology, I would definitely trade with her again. The other one, no way! The books were so bad! Taped together, musty, mildew smelling, water damage, cobwebs, one even had a bug cocooned in the broken binding!  It was horrible. I did rwap without asking for my credits (he ignored my comments, not even a hey I'm sorry) but I wrote his name on a sticky note and when I request a book, I just check and see who it's coming from. I'd cancel the transaction if it came from him.

While I have received a couple of books I think need to end with me and just not be traded anymore, most are in pretty good shape and I've received books that look like someone pulled them off a bookstore shelf and sent them to me. I think it's ok to rwap even if you aren't asking for the credits back so there is a record of these things.

This is my first post of the New Year so I'm wishing everyone a happy and healthy 2015 :-)

Date Posted: 1/2/2015 9:46 AM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,828
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My opinion is there is a big difference between what some people think is acceptable and what other people think is acceptable. I have gotten books that were in two pieces due to breaks in the spine and the sender acknowledged the condition but thought I was an idiot (actually a stronger word than that) for complaining. I have gotten books that were so soiled there was fine dirt between the pages. I wish I could be sure of getting a nice book from a request but I think it's about 50/50 something bad will show up. I would be much more active in this club if I could be more confident in what would show up from a request.

Date Posted: 1/2/2015 10:22 AM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,271
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I just want to second what others have said...accepting books that don't meet the club standards makes the people sending the sub-standard books think its OK and they obviously can get away with it. The best way to enforce the standards are to RWAP when you get a problem book. Yes, it can be a pain in the butt, but if you don't RWAP, PBS has no way to know that certain people are sending books that don't meet the guidelines. You don't have to ask for your credit back. As the OP said "I didn't mark the books as received with a problem because I don't really care that the ISBNs don't match." In that case I would have marked it RWAP and said that while I did not mind the ISBNs matching in this instance, we are obligated to post books under correct ISBNs. Most people respond with apologies. Some do get abusive, but if you don't flag the transaction by RWAPing, they are going to continue sending out bad books. If they get too abusive, let PBS know. Someone you don't want to deal with? Make note of their name and don't request books from them again...odds are there is another copy available from another member. IMO members who accept substandard books without RWAPing are as at fault as the members who send out the substandard books -- are you going to be part of the problem, or are you going to be part of the solution?

Date Posted: 1/2/2015 10:47 AM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2009
Posts: 699
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"Silence is consent."

When you mark a book received, and mark that it was in good condition, you are telling PBS that you received it in good condition.

So that's what PBS thinks is true:  You received the book in good condition.

Date Posted: 1/2/2015 4:57 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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PBS doesn't do enough to enforce its own standards.


 

 I didn't mark the books as received with a problem because I don't really care that the ISBNs don't match. But I really think someone at PBS ought to give this person a reminder not to post books under the wrong ISBN. I'm not going to do it myself because I think it would be received better coming from PBS than from me. 

People who don't mark transactions correctly are half the problem. There is absolutely nothing PBS can do if members refuse to record transactions properly and are marking them as correct when they should be marking them as Problem transactions. Do not complain that PBS doesn't do anything about problem transactions and swappers if you refuse to indicate there was a problem, but instead tell PBS that the transaction went just fine. The RWAP system is to tell the site there was a problem. Can't even fathom how you think PBS could do anything when you've made the official record of the books say that the books were received without a problem.

Date Posted: 1/4/2015 12:58 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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Also, remember that after RWAPing a transaction, all communication with the sender should be in the PM thread initiated by your RWAP. Don't send the problem sender a message with a new subject line. This way all communication regarding the trade is recorded in the transaction archive and makes it easy for you or PBS to see the entire history.

In addition, if the sender takes satisfactory action to resolve a problem trade, the problem should be marked as resolved in the transaction archive.

See the (rather long) Help Center document for There is a problem with a book I received for full details regarding how to deal with problem books you have received.