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Topic: Postable?

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Subject: Postable?
Date Posted: 12/5/2013 2:27 PM ET
Member Since: 6/24/2012
Posts: 1,493
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Oops. I have a request for a book. I always check them over again before accepting the request, and I don't know how I missed this. It's an old library book, and they cut out their pocket from the first blank page. They wrote "WD" on the title page. Should I accept this request and send (only RC is about smoking), or turn it down and remove from my shelf? 

postable_zpse111cd82.jpg

Date Posted: 12/5/2013 2:44 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,272
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A lot of libraries do that when they decommission a book...some even tear out that page. Because it is not a text page it is fine to post, although if it were me, I would neatly remove that page.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 12/5/2013 3:14 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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I agree with Sally.

Date Posted: 12/5/2013 5:18 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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Send the book as is it is fine.

If you attempt to remove a perfectly postable page, you may end up with a receiver who marks it as a Problem because it is missing pages and they don't know what it is you cut out to know whether it was an important (to them) page or not.

Date Posted: 12/5/2013 11:10 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,911
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I also think it's fine. I mail books with cut off library bar codes frequently. (I don't cut them off, the library does.)

Date Posted: 12/6/2013 12:57 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,336
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I disagree, at least in part.   The criteria say "No torn or chewed/gnawed pages" -- not text pages.  They also say "No loose or missing text pages". 

In this case, the page isn't torn, it's cut, but to me the closest rule that would apply would be the "no torn pages" rule.  I would suggest one of two solutions.

a) PM the requestor, refer them to this page, and get their okay for sending the book, or

b) Place a hard surface behind the page and take an exacto knife and a straight edge (to get a straight cut) and cut the page completely out, leaving maybe 1/2 inch of the original page in place so as not to compromise the binding.  This way, instead of a cut page, you have a missing non-text page.



Last Edited on: 12/6/13 12:59 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/6/2013 5:43 PM ET
Member Since: 6/24/2012
Posts: 1,493
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Now I am very confused. I see all the credentials of the posted who have answered my question, but there seems to be differing opinions from some very knowledgable people. What if I PM the requestor and they don't see it before it's too late?

 Anyone else care to chime in before this request times out?

Date Posted: 12/6/2013 6:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2010
Posts: 8,414
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I have, in the past, chosen Patty's solution B.

Date Posted: 12/6/2013 6:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,336
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If you decide to send a message, your PM could either say, "If I don't hear from you by such and such a time, I will mail the book because I feel it is postable" (which is a fair conclusion, since I'm outvoted here, and my opinion isn't worth more than anyone else's) or "if I don't hear from you, I will not mail the book because I want your okay before mailing."   I think we've all looked at the rules and have come up with different interpretations, and it's hard to guess how the requestor will feel about receiving the book.  But look at the Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS yourself and make a judgment call.  If it doesn't seem clear to you, that's quite understandable since we other members aren't speaking in one voice, but there's also this from the same help doc:

If you feel your book falls into a "grey area", you can either post the book and send a Personal Message to the requestor, or not post the book.  We have delineated what we can, and we expect members to follow these rules, and use their common sense in cases that are unclear.

Date Posted: 12/7/2013 6:16 AM ET
Member Since: 11/18/2010
Posts: 6,631
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I would not object to receivin' such a book.  Havin' said that, I can see where somebody else might have a problem with it, and after sendin' a PM to explain the condition of the book and inform them that if I didn't get a go-ahead from the requester before the request timed out, I would cancel the swap.



Last Edited on: 12/7/13 6:17 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/8/2013 4:17 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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I agree with Patty.

In addition, if an ex-lib book in the condition described is requested, I recommend sending the requestor a PM regarding the ex-lib-ness of the book, the cut or intact pocket, or any missing non-text page(s), if any.

If the requestor has no problem with the condition then all is good, and send the book. But if the requestor does not want the book it is the responsibility of the sender to cancel the request, not the requestor's.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 12/8/2013 2:13 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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IIRC, in the past, the Team has advocated the "carefully remove the cut page" solution in the past, for book coupons on non-text pages. If someone has cut out the coupon, they have stated that the page could be carefully removed, and it is postable, as that page was a non-text page.  That is why I responded as I have above. Otherwise, if I interpreted the rules as Patty had, I would have said book was not postable. 

Patty's "send a message" solution will work. I am a firm believer in communication between members and a note to Requestor, although not required, can be sent explaining.  However, as has been pointed out to me, that could open the can of worms where the Requestor doesn't want the perfectly postable book, and then one of you will need to cancel the transaction.  (By rights, it would be up to the Requestor to do this, by not wanting a postable condition book, but this gets thorny in WishList situations, where Requestor doesn't want the copy of the book but also doesn't want to lose their place in WL line.) Sender should only cancel if there are not other copies of the book available, so they don't lose their place in the Sendout FIFO line.

So, to avoid this, I have posted that I would go with the careful removal of the cut page, (which is Patty's Solution B) as there is precedent for this and a Team ruling on the situation...



Last Edited on: 12/8/13 2:17 PM ET - Total times edited: 6
Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 12/8/2013 2:21 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Chris says: If the requestor has no problem with the condition then all is good, and send the book. But if the requestor does not want the book it is the responsibility of the sender to cancel the request, not the requestor.

I respectfully disagree.  The onus of cancellation is on the Requestor. It would only be Sender's responsibility to cancel if they were offering a NON-POSTABLE book (such as in Book Bazaar) and Requestor did not want it.  If Sender is offering a POSTABLE book and Requestor does not want it, it is the responsibility of the Requestor to cancel the book.  Sender only cancels if they initiate the transaction (as in non-postable book offering) or if they are using Requestor Condition decline (and they do not lose out Sendout FIFO place if they cancel due to RCs.)

NOTE: If Sender cancels the request, the automated system starts looking for a different copy of the book for the Requestor. In order not to trigger this, Requestor must cancel.  Then they can decide for themselves whether or not they want to try to order another copy of the book.



Last Edited on: 12/8/13 2:25 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 12/8/2013 4:01 PM ET
Member Since: 6/24/2012
Posts: 1,493
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So far, no reponse from the requestor. I am so hoping she will respond and say it's fine so I can avoid the cancellation dilema.

Date Posted: 12/8/2013 7:26 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2006
Posts: 35,010
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Thank you Sianeka.  I was thinking the very same thing in reply to Chris, but you worded it much better than I would have.

yes



Last Edited on: 12/8/13 7:27 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/8/2013 10:27 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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IIRC, in the past, the Team has advocated the "carefully remove the cut page" solution in the past, for book coupons on non-text pages. If someone has cut out the coupon, they have stated that the page could be carefully removed, and it is postable, as that page was a non-text page. 

The only time I have seen them advocate the removal of a page was the coupon pages - they are cardstock inserts and not part of the book, so they really are "non-text" pages in a different sense. In the discussion of pages that were intro to the next story and classified as "non-text" in the sense of not being part of the actual story, they sided with the receiver's discression. That is why I always warn that removal of a page where the receiver could feel they are missing something they wanted opens one up for a problem. Is one way right or wrong? Unfortunately all the opinions of the board are not going to avoid a problem swap if the receiver's opinion differs from the sender's.