Discussion Forums - Questions about PaperBackSwap Questions about PaperBackSwap

Topic: problem stained book received sender disagreeing even with photos

Club rule - Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.
Page:   Unlock Forum posting with Annual Membership.
Subject: problem stained book received sender disagreeing even with photos
Date Posted: 8/17/2015 10:45 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
Back To Top

I received a book on Saturday that has obvious yellow stains on the front title pages that soaked all the way through to page 47 of the book. the pages are wavy and the stains are blantantly there. i marked it RWAP and sent a link to photos showing the damage. the member is disagree there was damage when it was sent. is there anything i can do?

here is the pm's

Me:

thanks for sending the book. I appreciate it. unfortunately there is a yellow staining on the front title pages that is soaked through to a page 47  in the book and the first 47 pages are wavy. I don't know  what caused this stain but because of it this it  makes this book unpostable at PBS as it does not meet the site's guidelines. because of this problem I am asking that you please refund my credit. thank you again."

sender's response:
 

I think the yellow discoloration is due to normal aging that occurs in paperbooks. I do not think it is a stain.


 

my response:

I respectfully disagree as it looks like it got splashed across the pages and the pages are wavy so it looks like something spilled on it. there is also an odor to the pages. here are the pictures of the stain. it goes all the way from the inside page to page 47 in the book. here is the link to the photos.
http://s882.photobucket.com/user/Molly_Mierzwa/library/?sort=3&page=1
 


 

she also did not follow my rc's which require any book sent to be wrapped in plastic to protect the book/books from weather or spills accidents in transit to me. so my question is is there anything i can do about this? i mean in her response to me she admitted that the mark/stain was there before she sent out the book. can i use the contact us feature to possibly get my credit back for this problem book?



Last Edited on: 8/17/15 11:25 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/17/2015 11:02 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 7,551
Back To Top

Wow! That's obviously a stain! I don't know what you do but wow, that is not aging, it's some kind of stain.

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 11:38 AM ET
Member Since: 4/22/2006
Posts: 4,616
Back To Top

No question about it; that is NOT normal aging and definitely a stain.

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 12:03 PM ET
Member Since: 1/25/2010
Posts: 2,845
Back To Top

I wasn't going to post anything because I've been opinionated recently, but that is so very clearly not normal aging...

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 12:24 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
Back To Top

well I contacted the PBS team about this member. I know that you are suppose to give the sender time to resolve the problem but from the response I got from them I don't see that happening.

plus there's the fact that this member admitted in her pm to me that she knew about the damage to the book before sending it out to me and is now trying to say it is normal aging/yellowing of the pages.

I may not get my credit back but at least the Team can see what's up with this member so that they can't do this sort of thing to anyone else.


 


 


 



Last Edited on: 8/17/15 12:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/17/2015 12:28 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
Back To Top

well I just got a pm back from the sender. here is her response to returning my credit.

Sending you a credit under duress! It does look like a stain, but I read the book, and it didn't bother me or my husband as it is completely legible! I think you are too picky; this is a used book club, you know! It's one thing to lose the postage money, but losing the credit really makes me angry!

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 12:35 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2009
Posts: 793
Back To Top

Wow, sender clearly doesn't understand PBS rules!  Don't need someone with that attitude as a member IMHO.

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 12:38 PM ET
Member Since: 3/25/2014
Posts: 2,793
Back To Top

If they would just read the basic posting guidelines

From Help Center: 

Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS

Guidelines

Overall Condition:

  • No damage at all from water or other liquid
  • Not soiled
  • No stains (exception for cookbooks--see below)
  • No mold
  • no highlighting, underlining or writing on text pages (exception for Textbooks/Workbooks and travel guidebooks --see below)

The book may be legible but stains are not acceptable. 



Last Edited on: 8/17/15 12:43 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/17/2015 12:41 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
Back To Top

I just took another look at this member's profile. they have been a member here since 2009 so its not they are a new member and don't know the rules. I like to stand by the rule of thumb that if you wouldn't want a book like this sent to you then don't send it to others. obviously this member doesn't mind being sent books that have nasty stains and smells.

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 1:22 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
Back To Top

I just noticed in the credit registry that the member marked the returned credit as a Action: Friends Credit Transfer instead of Action Refund Requested.  so instead of following the rules for giving back a credit for a problem swap she used the gift friend credits button. so according to the credit history this is not recorded as a problem transaction yet another way for this member to hide the fact that they didn't follow the rules.

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 1:36 PM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 7,551
Back To Top

Wow..she posts an unpostable then complains someone doesn't want it? No words..

I hate the you're too picky, this is a used bookclub line...don't post unpostables! I had one where tape was holding the cover together and the first few pages were tearing out but I had too high standards. Taping the cover to the books first page and last page and tears and such but my standards were high...I wouldn't have bought it for 2.69...why would I want to lose a credit over it? 

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 4:44 PM ET
Member Since: 4/5/2010
Posts: 2,102
Back To Top

I got a book once that had ripped pages that were all taped up and the tape was yellow. The sender accused me of riping the pages and putting the tape on it. Said it was not even the same book. Now where would I get old yellowed tape. Some times you just have to go on.

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,219
Back To Top

Please do send TPTB her responses to you after she sent the credit back.  Might be that nothing can be done, but at least they'll have her responses at the ready. Pat

Date Posted: 8/17/2015 8:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,664
Back To Top

You marked the book RWAP. It's recorded as a problem transaction against her account. Since she friended you a credit instead of refunding you, her resolution of the issue is not recorded, which is actually worse for her on the surface of it, not better.

I don't see any reason to forward her PMs to PBS, the lady refunded you and that's the end of it. Her messages aren't super nice but she is not particularly rude and there is no rule that says she has to be happy about refunding you. PBS cares about resolving problems, responding to PMs, and not being  rude or obscene in messages. This lady did all those things, although not happily, so what's to report?

And yup, that book was obviously stained!

In response to your question about the RC, yes, you can report the book RWAP for not following the wrapping RC, however, you should not ask for a credit back for that kind of RC unless the book got damaged and is rendered unpostable BECAUSE she didnt follow the RC. PBS frowns on asking for credits back on undamaged books, wrapping RC followed or not. Since that book has a seperate problem besides the RC issue and was obviously damaged well before it was mailed, you marked it correctly.



Last Edited on: 8/17/15 8:08 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/20/2015 2:51 PM ET
Member Since: 7/24/2005
Posts: 54
Back To Top

Ugh, sorry that happened! She clearly either isn't aware of the rules or just doesn't care, and because she (and her husband) didn't mind of course you should feel EXACTLY the same way. <eye roll>

It looks like someone's dog peed on your book. I wouldn't be happy either.

Date Posted: 8/20/2015 4:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
Back To Top

according to this member's profile her and her husband have cats and also foster cats. the book does have the slight order of ammonia which I mention to her in one of the pm's she told me that none of her cats foster or otherwise have ever marked anywhere or anything in her house and that without using the exact phrase I was imagining things. I have owned 5 cats in my life and cleaned out a litterbox. I know the smell of ammonia when I smell it no matter how slight it is. she also in the beginning tried to pass it off as damage cause by the USPS saying that maybe the envelope got wet or something spilled on the package in transit. (which if she had followed my rc's would have been prevented.) unless a cat or dog somehow crawled in the big blue mailbox or hoped into my postal carrier's mail truck and did some marking of territory in the bin of packages which is highly unlikely lol I don't think  that's possible. maybe on fantasy island.



Last Edited on: 8/20/15 4:07 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/20/2015 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 717
Back To Top

Even though virtually all of my books are purchased new from BN because of Birthday, Christmas generosity. I would never accept an RC request. I find them offensive.

Date Posted: 8/21/2015 2:11 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
Back To Top

mary I don't have a lot of crazy rc's if that's what your thinking I have 5 very basic easy rc's they read as follows.


 

  • for hardcovers if they originally had a dust jacket I want them with a dust jacket.
  • Please wrap all books in plastic. or other weather proof material. I live in Wi and our weather can be quite unpredictable winter and summer months can be really wet and rainy so this  is a must. ( baggie, plastic grocery etc can be used)  thank you.
  • ex-library books are fine as long as they are in good shape and the binding is tight.
  • Please make sure that all books meet the PBS Guidelines thank you.
  • Please no books that are in smoking home/environment (current home)

 

although I now see I may have to change the one with PBS guidelines to include this means no stains, etc. I have received over 1,070 books and mailed out 1,257 books since joining PBS in 2005. and I have had a few books get lost in the mail enroute to me and a few go lost that I have sent out. (I think it's like the missing sock in the dryer) I think there's a black hole where these lost things go. lol and I have had less then 5 problem books since I started here. and most of them were because members didn't read the PBs rules about condition before sending. I think 2  I got were damaged by a USPS machine with a torn wrapper. I think that's a pretty good record for being a member for 10+ years.



Last Edited on: 8/21/15 2:18 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/21/2015 3:14 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,664
Back To Top

I would never accept an RC request. I find them offensive.

Why is it offensive?

The PBS book condition guidelines are not some sort universally known book conditions that are set in stone. Some person or persons at PBS said 10 years ago, "this makes sense" and made them up out of thin air and wrote them down. Why are those book conditions any more or less offensive than book conditions that a random member might write in a RC?

Date Posted: 8/21/2015 12:18 PM ET
Member Since: 7/24/2005
Posts: 54
Back To Top

I think there's a black hole where these lost things go.

Somewhere in the universe there's a planet littered with socks and lost books. :D



Last Edited on: 8/21/15 12:20 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/22/2015 5:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 717
Back To Top

Why is it offensive?

Just do not want to deal with people with RCs. I view RCs as problems waiting to happen. Who needs it. My books are mostly purchased new and read by only me. Would rather serve up a treat to someone not so demanding.  I find RC offensives and will not fill those requests.

Let talk about the most common ones, smoke and pets. This is a used book site how is any member to know the history of a book and how does the "currently in a home" qualification be at all relevant. When I get a book from PSB it is maybe in my possession a week. Does that remove smoke and pet. I have never smelled a book and certainly never seen any hair ( pet or human).  I do not want to transact with people with issues real or imagined.



Last Edited on: 8/22/15 6:32 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 8/22/2015 6:30 PM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 7,551
Back To Top

Lol..rc's aren't offensive. They don't know you so when it says non smoking etc why would anyone take it personal? 

Date Posted: 8/22/2015 6:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 717
Back To Top

Cause how would I know if anyone smoked around a used book. I have it a week or so before posting - could be a decade old. Not reasonable to expect. I do not at all take it personally, It is just unrealistic as used books do not come with a history and I do not want to deal with demanding difficult people.



Last Edited on: 8/22/15 6:38 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/22/2015 8:46 PM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 7,551
Back To Top
Having an rc doesn't make someone demanding or difficult any more than not having an rc makes someone accepting and easy going.. And in your case you buy them new and give them to your library so in your case it doesn't matter. most rc's are reasonable. .i never had a problem with them..shrug..easy peasy transactions on the whole

Last Edited on: 8/22/15 8:49 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/22/2015 10:11 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,664
Back To Top

When people say in their RC "currently in a non-smoking home" or however they word it, that is to specifically let senders know that they are not expecting you to know the past history of the book. Even if you've only had it a week. I just give those a sniff and if they don't smell like smoke they are fine to send, IMO.

I've gotten books from smokers, and while it doesn't bother me personally, it is a pretty noticeable smell, although I also find it fades pretty quickly with a little airing out usually.



Last Edited on: 8/22/15 10:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Page: