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Topic: Protocol when RC not followed

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Subject: Protocol when RC not followed
Date Posted: 2/11/2010 6:59 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I received a book I ordered where the sender either forgot or ignored my RC that the book be wrapped in plastic.  The book was just wrapped in the PBS mailer.  The packaging is a little damp and the book is a little damp.  I have the book weighed down with heavy books on top to stop the pages from waving from the moisture.  I guess I'll know in a couple of days if this works. 

Anyway, should I do a RWAP?  If a person ignores an RC like mine and the book is damaged (I don't know that will be the case with this book), is it grounds for PBS supporting my getting my credit back?



Last Edited on: 2/11/10 7:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/11/2010 7:06 PM ET
Member Since: 7/23/2006
Posts: 15,930
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PBS doesn't get involved in individual transactions.  There's nothing to stop you from asking for your credit back, though.

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 7:07 PM ET
Member Since: 6/26/2006
Posts: 6,633
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There's a RWAP option for requester conditions not being met.  If you have a problem with the way the book was wrapped and the RC was in use when you requested this book, then feel free to mark it RWAP and ask for your credit to be returned if you feel a returned credit is warranted.

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 7:08 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/3/15 6:06 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/11/2010 7:09 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,441
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PBS does not get involved in this type of dispute.  This is between you and the sender.  You do have the right to RWAP and to ask for your credit.  And it is up to the sender to decide to offer you your credit or not.

So it is VERY important how you word your RWAP.   A RC violantion is cause to RWAP.  Heck, a damp book is cause to RWAP,  but it would be due to PO damage.

ETA   You can view the RCs for open orders on the credit registry.



Last Edited on: 2/11/10 7:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/11/2010 7:41 PM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2008
Posts: 15,690
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It is the sender's responsability to know that their book meet the conditions when they click 'my book meet these conditions' so if the member didn't follow them and your book got damaged, you have the right to RWAP. In this case, I think it's even good that you do it so the sender knows that they must pay more attention to the RCs in the future.

And you can only view the RCs in the Transaction Archive once the book is marked received. From the time the request is accepted to the time that it's received, the sender can't double check them.



Last Edited on: 2/11/10 7:41 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/11/2010 7:58 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Yep, you can and should.  But so many members know so little that once they thought the RC "went away" they might not know how to find it again, or because it was no longer there in front of their face they forgot.  I'm thinking I'll send in a suggestion to put some sort of symbol signifying there is a RC on that particular order on the Account page.  If nothing else, they could PM you (the right requester) to refresh their memory.

I wish that PBS could put out an alert to all members that mailing to VA, MD, DC, and other states hit by this winter disaster that all possible protective packaging  should be used.  We can't get to our rural mailbox.  Most routes aren't deliverable.  One PO substation collapsed under the snow.  My PO is a little country outpost on a country road, so I don't know if they're getting pick-ups or deliveries or if it's even  still standing. And another storm is being touted as coming on Monday.  We've gotten more than 30 inches.  Our states have spent all their bad weather road budgets and more.

Please be aware of where your books are going or coming from (eventually).

Ruth
 



Last Edited on: 2/11/10 10:55 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/11/2010 8:55 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,516
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I always wrap in plastic in the winter at least.  Even though I use a plastic mailer too.  I live in a snowy part of the country, there's no guarantee I'm not gonna fall and drop the book in the snow before I can get it in the mailbox.  I wanna make sure things are double protected.

Since the sender didn't follow your RC and the book was damp when it arrived, I would definitely RWAP the book and let the sender know that they did not follow your RCs and the result is a damaged book.  Asking for your credit back is up to you.

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 9:07 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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RWAP, RC not met.  Just ask for your credit, copy/paste your RC into the reason why section so they can see it clearly was not met. Sorry remembering that it said wrap in plastic is not that hard to remember. *shrugs*
 

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 9:14 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,269
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If I think there is going to be a problem remembering when someone has an RC and what it is, I take a small sticky note and write on it the RC (plastic wrap or whatever) and stick it to the cover of the book until I wrap it.  Pat

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 10:19 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,852
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Kate,

Yes, if the book is damaged because they didn't follow your RC, then you should absolutely RWAP it and ask for your credit back.

While it's true that the sender can't see the RCs as they are mailing, that is no excuse for not following it, once they have accepted it. When I accept a request with a RC that I need to rememebr, I copy it and paste it into a PBS Note on the book, and the text of it is right there as I am mailing. I just remove the note when I mail the book.

Maybe the book will dry out undamaged! Hopefully.

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 10:46 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I usually make a note if there's something I need to remember like a request to wrap plastic. For other RCS I usually check before I accept-like no ex-library or dust jacket required before I accept the book request. But the other day I accepted an RC that ws just a polite RC asking that the binding be in good shape. Normally I hate being reminded of the posting guidelines but this one was really polite and I just figured she'd had a run of broken spines.  I think there was a comment about no writing in the text pages. I knew I had bought the book new so I accepted.   Well I got the book out and there was a remainder mark. Then I was thinking-was there something about remainder marks in there? 

Anyway: I sent in feedback to ask that they please make the RCS availalbe while the request is pending.  They messaged me back that they are working on that feature.  They also put the RC in the email they sent me to remind me of what it said.

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 11:06 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Thanks, Mary, for that info.  I'd be happy with just a symbol like the checkmark indicating PBS DC.  Like maybe a red "RC" on that order.  Glad to know they are working on it.

Ruth

Date Posted: 2/11/2010 11:08 PM ET
Member Since: 11/30/2007
Posts: 4,974
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Kate, how is your RC worded? If you have your RC saying that you prefer plastic wrapping, then she might have thought well she doesn't require it. If you state in your RC that all your requested books 'must' be wrapped in plastic, then she definitely disobeyed your RC, and the book should be RWAPed.

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 6:10 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1,442
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I agree with the others that you are entitled to ask for your credit back in this situation since (1) you had an RC, and (2) the book was damaged because the RC was not followed.  Connie also has a very good point about the way the RC is worded.



Last Edited on: 2/12/10 6:10 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/12/2010 6:48 AM ET
Member Since: 4/23/2007
Posts: 9,515
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if you do ask for your credit back please see the help center for specific instructions on how to deal with problem swaps. it gives specific timelines to follow.

if the transaction happened before you put the rc on, then it would not be a rwap.

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 8:04 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,600
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Yes, do make sure you check the details to be sure you had your RC in place. I got a (false) RWAP one time when the person claimed I hadn't followed their RCs for no ex-library books. Turns out they had turned the RC off and forgot to put it back on, so there was no RC in place when I sent the book, which they didn't realize until I pointed it out. (She very nicely marked it resolved after that.)

As others have said, make sure your RC is clear, too. Don't use phrases like "I prefer books wrapped in plastic." Say definitively, "Books must be wrapped in plastic." That way there is no room for various interpretations.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 12:52 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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Here's how I worded the RC:

Since I live in the Pacific Northwest, and we have been having a very wet winter, I would appreciate any books sent to me be wrapped in plastic before the outer wrapper to protect the book from moisture damage.

It never occurred to me that someone would accept that request and then ignore it.  So, I guess since I didn't say the book "must be" wrapped in plastic I can't justifiably do a RWAP. 

As far as asking for the credit back, I wouldn't do that if the book ends up not warped.  I have it under heavy pressure and since it was only damp, I am hoping that the pressure will keep the pages from warping. 

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 1:01 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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Kate- weighing the book down like that could cause the pages to clump together. Depending on how damp the book is will depend if that happens. Also how thick is the paper? Really thin paper (like Mass market PB's) can and do easily mash together when the pages are wet and its best to leave the book open while its wet..Please watch for mold.

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 1:40 PM ET
Member Since: 4/23/2007
Posts: 9,515
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lets break it down-here  are my RCs for example:

~If the book smells like cigarette smoke to you, or is currently in a smoking home, please decline my request. I am happy to wait for the next copy available.

CLEARLY AN RC.

~I don't have a lot of protection from our occasional rain here in AZ. Books wrapped in plastic are very much appreciated but not required. Thanks!

NOT AN RC.

~Please, no LARGE print books. I know that the ISBN's can be mistaken with those and I'm fine to remain on the wishlist for a regular print book.

CLEARLY AN RC

I would re-word your RC so there is no ambiguity whatsoever. Keep it simple. I have had ONE rwap in over 600 books that was related to my RCs.

Yours could be misconstrued as optional. I conclude in this situation, no rwap. chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. I received a wet book  once (not the senders fault).     I read it, and offered it as a freebie in the BB.

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 3:57 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,441
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I personally do not react well to RCs with the word MUST.  It sounds like scolding, rather than asking for a favor.  And a RC is a request for a favor.  The tone of the RC does matter.

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 4:17 PM ET
Member Since: 11/30/2007
Posts: 4,974
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i see what you mean Emily about the word 'must' but then again the sender may just think plastic wrapping is optional. 

Katie, perhaps you could word your RC in some way similar to this:

* Because we have had a very 'wet' winter in the Pacific Northwest, my RC is that all books I've requested be wrapped in some form of plastic.

Thanks.

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 4:43 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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So, I guess since I didn't say the book "must be" wrapped in plastic I can't justifiably do a RWAP. 

 

I agree. You're RC was poorly worded, as a suggestion and not a direct request for the sender to do something specific or be in the wrong.

 

 

 

 

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 5:38 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I personally do not react well to RCs with the word MUST.  It sounds like scolding, rather than asking for a favor.  And a RC is a request for a favor.  The tone of the RC does matter.

That's why I didn't say "must", because I didn't want to make it sound scolding.  I just never thought that someone would take it as "just a suggestion".  It seems to me that people wouldn't put something like that in an RC if it wasn't important to them. 

I don't see "I would appreciate it" as being poorly worded or "just a suggestion".  It is me giving a request in a polite manner.  I'm not going to change it because I don't want to come off as being scolding or demanding.  If someone chooses to ignore it, and I get a wet or damp book, I will do a RWAP and blame it on the PO, even though I don't see it as being the fault of the PO.  I will also send a PM to the person who sent the book telling them that they should deny a request for books if someone has an RC asking them to do something in a polite manner, if they don't plan on doing what they were asked to do.

Kate- weighing the book down like that could cause the pages to clump together. Depending on how damp the book is will depend if that happens. Also how thick is the paper? Really thin paper (like Mass market PB's) can and do easily mash together when the pages are wet and its best to leave the book open while its wet..

The book isn't actually wet, it was just damp.  I looked at it a while ago and it seems to be doing fine.  The pages aren't rippling and they are not sticking together.  If the book had been wet, I wouldl have let it dry some before weighting it down.

Date Posted: 2/12/2010 6:09 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 770
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Katie,

When I read the RC that you posted here in the forum, I read "I would appreciate it" more like, "It would be nice of you to ".  I would have assumed that it would be ok to send without plastic wrap. 

I know that you are trying to be polite, but some people are very concrete--either you want it this way or not.  I would not be receptive to getting an e-mail -as you said-  "telling them that they should deny a request for books if someone has an RC asking them to do something in a polite manner, if they don't plan on doing what they were asked to do."  To me, I would not have read that as an RC.  Just my two cents.

ETA:  I am not trying to be mean, just trying to show you that your RC has a very wide interpretation, and I just don't read it as you intend it.  Maybe I am the only one...



Last Edited on: 2/12/10 6:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
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