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Topic: Question about Bible quoting

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Subject: Question about Bible quoting
Date Posted: 4/12/2008 11:20 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
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Why - and I mean this sincerely - do people quote the Bible to someone who says they are not Christian and don't believe it?  What do they hope to accomplish by this?  If you've done this, could you please explain?  Becasue my brain cell is fried trying to figure it out.

This was inspired by the conversation in the LDS thread, but I didn't want to highjack, so here it is on its own.

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 11:33 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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Kari, I often wonder about this too, but the only thing I can figure is that people who do this think they are right, everyone else is wrong, and by someone repeating themselves ad nauseum, they will eventually brainwash the rest of us.  My selective hearing just instantly tunes it out however, and I just skip over it when reading, so it's pretty pointless.  My selective hearing does the same thing when George Bush speaks.....;)

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 12:13 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2006
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I've never personally done this but, I have Simon Cowell quotes on signature line....and more people disagree with him than the bible... :P

I guess to each their own. I guess I'd mind it or notice it more if I wasn't of Christian background.

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 3:03 PM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
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Ah, but Shannon, you aren't using the quote from Simon Cowell to prove a point.

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 3:16 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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Yeah, if you were trying to win an argument by saying "But Simon Cowell says....." then I would probably ignore you.  Okay, I would listen and laugh, because he says some funny stuff, but I wouldn't take it seriously.  ;)

T. -
Date Posted: 4/12/2008 4:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/21/2007
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It is ridiculous, but the people who do it don't understand how ridiculous it is.  It is tantamount to me throwing verses from the Q'uran at them---it has no relativity to their understanding of a situation.  They don't get it that throwing Bible verses out to a non-Bible believer has no relativity either.  

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 4:44 PM ET
Member Since: 10/17/2006
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well, yeah, one has to know a lot of Biblical references simply to read in the English language-----it's part and parcel of being "literate"..........Jezebel, Queen of Sheba, Sodom and Gomorrah, David and Goliath, Lazarus, Daniel in the lions' den, Noah and the Ark, etc. etc. etc.  Biblical references just pervade life, to this day---just think about the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat!  I have one delicious recipe (with lamb and lentils, etc.) I make occasionally, called Esau's Pottage.

As a non-Christian, I do a lot of indulgent smiling and keeping my mouth shut, but if the person talking at me gets the Bible "quote" WRONG, then I speak up!

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 6:01 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
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I want to preface this with the following statement:  "I do not intend anything that I say to be taken as deragatory to non-christians or people that do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God.  I am simply stating what I believe and may not do so in a very logical manner."

 

Personally, I do not know and non-christians or non-Bible believing individuals and if I did I would not closely associate with them primarily because I have nothing in common with them.  As a christian and one that believes that the Bible is indeed the inspired word of God it is just so foreign to think otherwise and when discussing something it would logically be what would come out of my mouth.  I'm sure it does not seem logical to those that don't believe in God or the Bible but, when God is your best friend and the Bible is His love letter to you/is your comfort/your guide/your everything then yeah that is what you use to debate discussions because for the Bible believer what else is there that even begins to make sense?

I guess it is a two sided discussion...the non-christian/non Bible believer doesn't understand the Christian who believes in the Bible and turns to it for everything and the Christian that believes in the Bible doesn't understand the non-christian/non Bible believer who turns to ____________ for guidance in life.

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 6:08 PM ET
Member Since: 5/23/2005
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I would suppose because to those quoting the Bible, it's absolute truth.  Just the same as someone who believed in evolution would state the scientific evidence to support that.  I do know that for those who don't believe in the Bible, it's not the same at all (heck, I don't even think it's the same, but it's the best I could come up with at the moment).  Some people may be quoting Bible scripture because they feel that explains what they are trying to say, whereas if they just gave their opinion, they may feel it doesn't hold as much validity.

I have quoted the Bible before, but usally to other Christians, or when answering a question about beliefs, to explain my beliefs and where they come from.  I don't think I'd quote it to try to prove something to non-Bible believers, because I do understand that to them it's a fictional book.  But for Christians, when trying to explain their beliefs, or why they believe something, the Bible is a very useful tool.



Last Edited on: 4/12/08 6:09 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/12/2008 7:06 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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Well, there's a difference in how the quotes are being used.  The thing I *think* that Kari is addressing is when people try to use the Bible (thereby quoting it) as a reason for non-believers to do things their way.  Which is pretty dumb.  If you (generic) are explaining to me why you do things, that's one thing, but to tell me why I should do things and then cite the Bible, knowing that I don't believe the Bible is anything but a book, then it's just a pointless, circular argument.

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 7:39 PM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
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Christy said: I guess it is a two sided discussion...the non-christian/non Bible believer doesn't understand the Christian who believes in the Bible and turns to it for everything...

Actually, I think most non-Christians in this country understand this pretty well.  Our culture certainly promotes that understanding, sometimes with a rather heavy hand (that is not aimed at anyone personally, just that the assumption of Christianity is a commonplace).

Amanda said: The thing I *think* that Kari is addressing is when people try to use the Bible (thereby quoting it) as a reason for non-believers to do things their way.

Yes, this is it.  If you tell me "I believe [whatever] because the Bible says..." then that makes perfect sense.  Of course you believe something if you think that's what the Bible says.  I may disagree with your interpretation of that particular verse, but I would certainly undersand why you use it as a reference.

What I don't understand, though, is when a Christian is talking to a non-Christian and says "You should believe [whatever] because the Bible says..."  Well, if I don't believe in the Bible as the inspired word of God, why would that make me change my mind about [whatever]? 

I notice this especially when a Christian is trying to prove their religion is the "one true religion," they will say "I can prove Christianity is true because the Bible says..."  Well, sure.  But the Koran says it is the book of God, and I'm sure other religions' holy works say the same thing.  Why would I believe the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true?  To me, it's always a circular argument.

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 9:06 PM ET
Member Since: 1/27/2008
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As a Christian, my relationship with God is the most important one of all.  He is always with me and the Bible forms the basis upon which I make all my decisions.  That being said, Christians are supposed to spread the word of God.  The difference is in how we do it.

Personally, I prefer to let my actions speak for me when I'm around others that are non-Christians, lukewarm Christians or people that I don't know well.  That means I try to be loving, considerate, etc. and let them see the joy that my relationship with God gives me.  If they ask why I do such and such or something of that nature, I'll explain.

However, others believe that Christians must spread the Word and thus quote the Bible and actively try to convert others.  I've never seen that be effective and, in fact, it seems to have the opposite effect.  I want to share the joy and strength that my faith gives me, not turn people off.

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 9:20 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2006
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"It was like some ghastly lunch where your parents ask the kids to dress up and sing and they really don't like what they hear. It was all a little weird. "(to Sanjaya Malakar)-Simon Cowell

I thought I'd quote a real expert.

:P

Seriously, I do get the point that you are trying to make. It'd be like somebody saying to me "But, Shannon! Mohammad said ".............................."

Date Posted: 4/12/2008 10:41 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2006
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I just went back to the Mormon thread for the first time in a loooong time. I'd have to say, it would be interesting to see the motive on some of the postings.

I



Last Edited on: 4/12/08 10:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/13/2008 12:46 AM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2005
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Kari,

This might not answer your question exactly.  I do think it's kind of fruitless to try to argue the Bible with people who don't believe it. 

But as to the thread that brought about your question...the poster did mention that she believed Jesus existed and was a good moral teacher.  So in that instance it's perfectly logical to quote the book which records his ministry and perfectly reasonable to quote from the same book he quoted from in order to pass on that "good moral teaching" that so many non-believers claim they can see in Him.



Last Edited on: 4/13/08 12:47 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/13/2008 10:50 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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What cracks me up is when people say things like "God says you are this  [insert insulting thing here] but I'm not saying that".  The other thread made me think of this too, although I see it a lot.  I don't think people realize what hypocritical idiots they look like when they hide behind their Bible verses to insult you, but claim not to be doing it themselves.  (rolls eyes)

I just cannot respect people who do those things.  People that have religious faith and live their lives accordingly without trying to hurt others?  Yes, and I have many close friends and family members that live their life that way and I would never insult them by arguing my beliefs against theirs.  But if you start using your religion as a weapon, you've crossed a line. 

Date Posted: 4/13/2008 12:18 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2005
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But if you start using your religion as a weapon, you've crossed a line. 

<gasp> methinks you've judged someone

I agree, people who use their religion as a weapon to kill other people are wrong...<gasp> I just made a judgment too.  I will refrain from quoting Scripture that causes me to make that pronouncement.  Just curious... by what moral authority did you make yours?  Perhaps your moral authority and mine can debate the rightness and wrongness in the universe and we can just be friends :-)

 

Date Posted: 4/13/2008 3:53 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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LOL, Rebecca.  I have judged a lot of someones in my own mind!  Who knows?  Maybe there are people our there who like to be berated in the name of religion.  To each his/her own, right?  I like my beratement straight up. 

My moral authority draws it's strength from a lot of things:  common sense, the golden rule, my upbringing, my life experience, etc.  Oddly enough, when you mash it all together into a tangible form, it closely resembles Napoleon Dynamite.  I don't know how well he can debate your moral authority, but he can outdance yours and make it vote for Pedro!!  ;)

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 4/13/2008 9:15 PM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
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Bonnie wrote: Just think about the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat!

I try not to if I can help it. ;)

Date Posted: 4/14/2008 8:17 AM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2007
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Bonnie wrote: Just think about the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat!

LG wrote: I try not to if I can help it. ;)

Me: roflmao,   What about Jesus Christ Superstar?  Although, I was actually in that show in middle school...

Date Posted: 4/14/2008 1:00 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2005
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Last Edited on: 12/10/08 1:00 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/14/2008 1:52 PM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
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Speaking only for myself, I don't get huffy (that I recall) about a Christian quoting the Bible to me.  It just strikes me as odd if the person knows I am not a Christian or is talking to someone else who has said they aren't.  It's like they had cited the Flying Spaghetti Monster in order to prove a serious point.  It's a "huh?" moment for me, not a "how dare you!" thing.

Date Posted: 4/14/2008 2:03 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
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Well Rebecca, it really all depends on the context in which things are said, you know?  It just seems ridiculous for someone to give someone orders based on something the other person dosen't believe in or subscribe to.  It says to me that the other person just isn't listening.  Bible quotations by themselves don't bother me.....I even use some of them myself in conversation..........but to use them to try to prove something to people or punish people who don't recognize it as any sort of authority is just not logical.  It's like trying to force a haircut on a bald man.  Or telling me I need to follow Chinese law even though I don't live in China.  It makes no sense, and the motivation behind it eludes me.

Date Posted: 4/14/2008 4:32 PM ET
Member Since: 1/9/2006
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You guys have all said the salient things.  I just want to know why when people quote the Bible at you (and I really am talking about those people who quote at you) they are never quoting from the Sermon on the Mount or the two great laws? 

I haven't heard anyone talk about the Sermon on the Mount in 30 years and it may be one of the most beautiful and affirming and thoughtful and inspirational passages in the New Testament.  And if there's one thing I took away from 11 years of Catholic school it was "hungering for righteousness' sake".   I forgive the nuns everything because they taught me that the reward I get for basic human decency is not something that I put in my pocket.   It has made my life richer than anything else I've ever had and made me and keeps me the choice of the most wonderful man I've ever known despite what gravity and long hard looks at every one of my worst faults for 40 years have done to all the illusions I could muster at 20. 

 

PS  "force a haircut on a bald man" is too funny and exactly on point!  ;> 



Last Edited on: 4/14/08 4:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 4/14/2008 5:37 PM ET
Member Since: 10/17/2006
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Amen............and a coupla Hallelujahs!    This was fun . . . . .and I love the haircut for a bald man metaphor!

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