a member requested a hardcover large print book from me. today they received the book and claimed it did not meet their RC

Here is their RC

I am receiving far too many books with water damage,though I should not have to specify the absence of this damage as a 'special condition'.  Please check book carefully for stains or wavey' pages. Also check inside of dust jacket. I do want hardcovers to have dust jackets.

the problem i am having is that i have looked at this copy of the book they ordered and it was never published with a dust jacket it is just a regular hardcover. so my question is if the book was never published in a large print  hardcover with a dust jacket am i in the wrong or is it the receiving member's fault for not knowing what she/he ordered? i thought that this kind of RC only refered to books that were published with a dust jacket originally.  i have searched all over the internet and this copy never came with a dust jacket. here is the copy  they ordered. what would you do refund or not refund?

I don't know... The RC specifically states they want the dust jacket and doesn't include an exception for books that weren't issued with a jacket. If you're sure it didn't come with jacket, it would have been better to mention it before you sent the book. There is nothing in the listing that would alert the requestor that there was no jacket so I could see why they would think their RC was ignored.

You could try to explain to them now that it didn't come with a dust jacket and maybe they will be ok with it.

Just wondering, did this HB have a pictorial cover?  

If my book didn't have a dust jacket (and had never had a dust jacket), I would either click that my book didn't meet the RC, or accept but then PM with an explanation.  I wouldn't mail the book unless the member said it was okay.  By clicking that your book that had been published without a dust jacket met her RC that says, "I do want hardcovers to have dust jackets," you were making a leap of logic.  Her logic may have been different.  She may have preferred to order another edition rather than receive your book.  I don't think your book met her RC.  Perhaps no copies of that ISBN would meet the RC.

It's very easy to decline an RC.  The help docs recommend that if we aren't sure, or if an RC isn't clear, we should decline.

Molly, what evidence do you have that the book was never published with a dust jacket? Although this could be the case, it is difficult to be certain that a given book was never published with a dust jacket.  It is not uncommon, for example, for a book with a pictorial hardcover to have been published with a dust jacket having a matching image.

I agree with Patty's comments.

Reading these posts and older posts are a lesson for me.

I can understand why members start declining requests that have RC's.

A situation like this leaves the sender feeling crummy.  They payed postage to send someone a book and the recipient wants their credit back because of no DJ.  

 If this edition/ISBN does not have a DJ, sender is at fault because of RC for DJ?  I'm talking about books that never had a DJ but someone has a RC for DJ.   Do you see the negative effect this has on senders? 

I can think of 2 results, there may be more.

1.  Oh, I better pm and ask all kinds of ? to make sure recipient is going to accept my book.

OR

2.  Decline requests with RC. 

I can think of 2 results, there may be more.

1.  Oh, I better pm and ask all kinds of ? to make sure recipient is going to accept my book.

OR

2.  Decline requests with RC. 

In this particular situation, those are the only options that would make sense. Anything else could, and in this case did, result in a RWAP.

Shouldn't the requestor know what they want? Some books just dont have a dj...if you request a book shouldn't you check too? Make sure it's what you really want?

well i did some research and also contacted the author through her website about the large print copy of this book yesterday. asking her if the publishing company every issued this paticular copy with a dust jacket. I gave her all the information for the copy of the book i had ISBN issue date and publisher. i got a reply in my e-mail a few minutes ago.

Dear Molly,

Thank you for writting to me and letting my know how much you enjoy my books. I am always happy to hear from my readers. I did some checking and according to my records Wheeler Publishing never issued my book Hokus Pokus (The Sisterhood Rules Of The Game, Book 2) Large Print Edition with a dust jacket. The book was issued as a hardcover edition with a picture cover.  I hope this information helps you and happy reading.

Sincerely,

Fern Michaels

I have the info straight from the author's mouth so to speak and even she says that this book in large print was not issued with a Dust Jacket.

I looked again at my transaction archive and realized that this was a wishlisted book that i posted directly from my tbr pile. which means that this copy was wished for by this member and that is why it was requested. so if it was a wishlist book then they are the ones who put it on their list. all i did was type in the ISBN on the back of the book to my TBR pile and press  the post this book button.

i also  looked at this member's wishlist this morning and they have this exact book back on it with the same ISBN. So that tells me that they know this book was not issued with a Dust Jacket but put the exact same copy bback on their wishlist.

So now I am seriously questioning the problem of the RC's if they are claiming its a problem book because it has no dust jacket but then put it right back on their wishlist.

I would pm the recipient the note from the author.  I would not refund the credit in this case.  

The RC has no standing if it asks for the impossible. 

EDITED:  I would interpret RC for DJ to mean if that version/ISBN has a DJ and acceptable without DJ if there never was a DJ. 

Molly, I'd send the requestor that information. Hopefully, the problem will be resolved.

i also  looked at this member's wishlist this morning and they have this exact book back on it with the same ISBN. So that tells me that they know this book was not issued with a Dust Jacket but put the exact same copy bback on their wishlist.

Edited to say - If it was marked RWAP, the system would automatically put it back on their wishlist.

Itt seems to me that most Large Print editions have no dust jackets. It's not worth having a special run of LP dust jackets, and putting the regular dust jacket on an LP book won't work because it's not Large Print, so won't be readable to the person who needs large print.  Most Large Print books laminate the cover art and large-print title, author and blurbs directly onto the book.

Someone who asks for an LP book should not expect a dust jacket.  If they are asking people to refund their credits because they didn't get one, this is not reasonable.

Feel free to forward the first paragraph to the requestor, so she understands why she just is not going to get a dust jacket for an LP book.

It's very simple.  The RC states she wants hardcovers with dustjackets.  Yours doesn't have a dustjacket.  It doesn't matter if it ever came with a dustjacket or not.  You can't state yours meets her RC if yours doesn't have a dustjacket, so you should have marked "doesn't meet RC."

I ran into this same problem with an audiobook that only came in abridged form (my listing clearly stated abridged in the title).  The requester's RC said she only wanted unabridged audios, but if it's abridged to PM her as she might want it anyway.  Even though it's a pain, I did as she asked, explaining this audiobook only comes in abridged form, but that I cannot state it meets RC, since it is abridged.  I told her I'd be happy to send it if she wants it if she'd just turn her RC off long enough to request it from me.  She chose not to do that, so her request went through all 5 books in the system and came back to me.  In case you're wondering why, I had to accept her request in order to be able to PM her, then cancel the order putting me back in line, which led me to deny her request a 2nd time.

well i pm'ed  her the note i got from the author this morning and have not heard back from her yet. so i'll wait a few days to see if she gets back to me. i just checked my personal messages and the ones i sent her this morning are still marked as not having been read.

Ouch, a difficult situation.  Hope it resolves in a manner acceptable to you both.

I'm also leaning towards pm'ing if your book was issued without a dust jacket.  I was in this situation once, it was a book I had purchased new so I knew it did not have a dust jacket.  Instead, there was a full color cover.  The requester had an RC for dust jacket, so I pm'd and let her know it did not come with one.  She approved the book as-is and the transaction went smoothly.

I understand your frustration with a book that was postable and (due to printing circumstances) impossible to fulfill the RC...but this is one of the few times I would have contacted the receiver. 

And yes, it falls on the requester to do their research...but how many would think of checking for a dust jacket on their hardcovers?  Not common information, and I'm sorry this member is choosing to be a bit of a hard-nose when you didn't deliberately do anything wrong either.

I would have turned down the RC.  No dust jacket = no dust jacket.  I'm not going to waste time checking to see if it originally had a dust jacket, or PMing the requester to see if they want it anyway, especially when it's likely that someone else will want it without an RC.  

Zeke makes a good point. I get nervous whenever I send a book to someone with an RC but so far it's been wrapping requests and I did have one with a DJ, but sent the book with a printed cover just like Molly did but I got a credit and a Thanks so much! instead of rwap. I just didn't think if a book didn't have a cover (because it doesn't come with one and has  a printed cover) that someone would get upset.

I just didn't think if a book didn't have a cover (because it doesn't come with one and has  a printed cover) that someone would get upset.

The problem here is that the requestor is most likely not even aware that the book is not available with a dust cover. I hate to PM people when they request a book from me, because so often they do not respond because they are not on the site every day and don't see the PM, but this is one of the rare cases where I probably would have PMd first. However, since you have proved that the book never came with a dust cover I think you are totally justified in refusing to return the credit...but also learn from this experience and in the future either turn down an RC that can't be met or PM the requestor to let them know why it can't be met and check if they are ok with that.

I had a hardcover book once which had the artwork printed directly on the cover and no dust jacket. As far as I could tell from my internet research, that edition of the book never did have a dust jacket. The book was requested off my shelf with requestor conditions saying that hardcovers must have dust jackets. I rejected the RC with text saying that the book was published with no dust jacket and if the person still wanted it under those conditions, to please turn off their RC and request it again (it was the only copy posted, so it did not roll over to the next one). The person did not re-request the book. In my opinion, that's the best way to give the information to the requestor and let them make the decision if they want it or not.

I hope you do not return the credit.

Personally, I expect people here to use at least a basic level of critical thinking.  If they request dust jackets, logic dictates that when a dust jacket does not exist then it will not be sent.  If someone is not bright enough to figure that out, it's really not my problem.  I'm also not concerned about getting an RWAP when I have done nothing wrong - I very much doubt anyone will be banned from PBS for not including something that never existed. 

I have a 'dust jacket' RC, and if I got a book that had a picture directly on the book itself -- and no paper dust jacket -- I would not RWAP. 

If the book looked like most hardcovers look when you remove the dust jacket (plain, possibly textured cover) I would RWAP. 

If the sender happened to send me some proof (such as yours, a letter from the author) saying that the book never came with a dust cover, I would go back to the transaction and mark it "RWAP'd in error".

One thing I probably would not do, is first research every hard cover book that I order to see if it comes with a dust jacket.

Another good option Valerie

Sorry Molly, but respectfully you are in the wrong here -- her RC stated hardcovers should have dust jackets.  The fact that yours never came with one is immaterial here -- you have no dust jacket, can't meet the RC, and should have declined.  You can, as others have suggested, use that message field when you decline an RC to inform them that the book never came with a dust jacket, and that they may re-request without their RCs turned on, but you can't automatically assume it is ok to ignore someone's RCs, even when they're not possible to meet.

Ultimately, you should not have sent the book, so I would refund the credit as requested.

I to have an RC that states I want my hardcovers to come with DJ's.  I like to occasionally look at the picture on the front of the book when I'm reading a book and I like to read the blurb on the back.  Regular hardcovers without DJ don't let you do that.  It also makes it easier to dust my books, the cloth can get pretty dusty.  Anyway I had to go back and amend them because I had some pre-teen and YA books get canceled because they were never published with a DJ and were only published with the pictoral cover.  So others do really cancel for this reason.  I'm totally fine with HC that don't have DJ so long as they are the ones that have the picture on the front and the blurb about the book somewhere.

I personally think you should have at least pm'd her to let her know that it didn't have a DJ because this edition never came with one before you sent it.  Sometimes we just put a ISBN on our wl thinking its the one we want and we make a mistake.  Pming before sending could have helped clarify the problem.

Also if  you didn't tell her it was a book published without a DJ how was she supposed to know.  Why would she have marked it with a problem if she knew it was never published with a dj.  Most likely what happened was she didn't know it was never published with a DJ and when she marked the book with a problem pbs put that book back on her wl for her because your book didn't meet her requestor conditions.  I had this happen to me where I ordered a book it came without a DJ and truthfully not in postable shape.  I marked it as having a problem and eventually got my credit back.  PBS put that book back on my wl in the position I was in when I got posted to my wl eventually the book was posted again.