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Topic: RC - Very Good

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Subject: RC - Very Good
Date Posted: 6/23/2009 8:50 AM ET
Member Since: 1/31/2009
Posts: 2
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Quick question:

Someone requested one of my books be in "very good" condition. The book appears to me to be in very good condition for being probably over 20 years old - I'm not sure that it has ever been read, still has dust jacket, etc. But, there is a "WITHDRAWN BOOK SALE" stamp across the outside of the pages on the bottom. Would this be VERY GOOD? I just don't want to lose a credit for this.

I'm still figuring out these conditions, thanks!

 

fyi - below is the full RC

"I only want to receive books that are in "very good" or better condition. If it is a hardcover book, it must still have its dustjacket in "very good" or better condition.  No books that have mold or water damage. Although packages may be damaged during shipping, an earnest attempt to protect the book during shipping is greatly appreciated as I have received books that were damaged during shipping. I carefully wrap the books I mail."

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 8:52 AM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 6,035
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That is an RC begging to be declined. 

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 8:55 AM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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I would agree (with the above post)

edit - wasn't implying agreeing w/RC but the above post



Last Edited on: 6/23/09 10:12 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/23/2009 8:57 AM ET
Member Since: 3/18/2009
Posts: 250
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Nope.  I would decline it...it's too subjective.  What's "very good" to you might be crap to them.  Not worth it.

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 9:11 AM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2005
Posts: 5,238
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I would decline it with a message that I don't have any idea what "very good" means to them, and therefore don't know if my book meets their RC.

FYI - There are some standard terms used by used book sellers to indicate book condition.   "Very good" is one of those standard terms.  According to the IOBA (Independent Online Booksellers Association), the term "Very Good" is defined as "A book showing some signs of wear. Any defects or faults must be noted."

Well, first of all, PBS isn't a bookselling site.  It's a used book swapping site.   So those standard terms don't mean a whole lot to PBS members.   Second, "some signs of wear" still sounds subjective to me.  How do I interpret that?   Third, with the PBS FIFO system there is no way to note any defects or faults.

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 9:18 AM ET
Member Since: 1/31/2009
Posts: 2
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Thanks, for the advice. I did decline - just didn't want to risk it.

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 9:59 AM ET
Member Since: 2/24/2009
Posts: 1,564
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I think you did the right thing in declining.  If they had asked for specific things like: no spine creases, no stickers, etc. then you would know if your book met that condition.  However, just asking for "very good" leaves it open to too much interpretation.  You might think the book is very good, they might not.  I wouldn't have taken the chance on losing a credit either for a perfectly postable book.

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 10:36 AM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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Like Christa already said, this is an RC begging to be denied. It's rude beyond belief.

"I only want to receive books that are in "very good" or better condition"

Kiss.....My......Grits

Denied

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 1:51 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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I didn't think it was rude, just very, very subjective.  I would decline, but particularly if it was a book that wasn't moving, I might explain what the issues are with the book and ask if she/he still wanted it.  If it was a WL book, obviously not.

Kate -
Date Posted: 6/23/2009 2:07 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2008
Posts: 534
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I do find that rather picky and vague, but I'm baffled as to how it's rude beyond belief. The wording was perfectly polite even if you disapprove of the request, which she has the right to make (not that I wouldn't be making a beeline for the decline button). Now, maybe if she had said "you had better send me like new books or you can kiss my grits!!!" .... ;)

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 3:34 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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but I'm baffled as to how it's rude beyond belief

It just is and yes, it's only my opinion.

From me, you'll get books that meet PBS criteria and if you're lucky I'll happen to have a book in excellent condition and you can do a happy dance.

If you want new or new looking books go to the G.D. store or online at Amazon and buy new books.

Any RC asking to stock one's shelves with new books or fulfill one's gift giving list is an immediate and unregrettable decline.

.

Date Posted: 6/23/2009 5:05 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2008
Posts: 1,976
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What I don't understand is why a person who only wants books  that are in very good or better condition would then order or WL a book that is 20 years old.  The chances of it being in very good condition are nearly impossible.

Date Posted: 6/25/2009 11:51 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 80
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All this discussion about book conditions gets subjective because there are no standard definitions. Here is what ebay says about book conditions:

Condition

Books (Cookbooks/Fiction/Non-Fiction/Children’s)

    *      Brand New - New, unread, unused and in perfect condition with no missing or damaged pages.

    *      Like New - Shiny, undamaged cover, dust jacket included for hard covers, no missing pages, all pages undamaged (no creases or tears), no underlining/highlighting of text, no damage to binding, no writing in margins (item is or could easily be mistaken for brand new).


    *      Very Good - Doesn't look brand new but has no easily noticeable damage to the cover, dust jacket included for hard covers, no missing pages, all pages undamaged (no creases or tears), no underlining/highlighting of text, no writing in margins, very minimal identifying marks inside cover, very minimal wear and tear (you would give it to a good friend as a gift).


    *      Good - Very minimal damage to the cover (no holes or tears, only minimal scuff marks), dust jacket not necessarily included, minimal wear to binding, majority of pages undamaged (minimal creases or tears), minimal pencil underlining of text, no highlighting of text, no writing in margins, no missing pages (you would use it yourself, but wouldn't necessarily give it as a gift).


    *      Acceptable - Some damage to the cover but integrity still intact, binding slightly damaged but integrity still intact, possible writing in margins, possible underlining and highlighting of text, no missing pages (item has been beaten up a bit but it works).

Yes, I know that ebay and PBS are different sites and different circumstances. Even so, I would humbly suggest that PBS should adopt something of this sort to describe what is a book in a good condition. The current guidelines are too open for confusion -- or outright gaming the system by claiming you do not understand what good condition means. A clear and specific definition of what is not good condition would eliminate much of the RWAP and RCs and other issues that stir everyone up here.

All IMHO, of course.

 

Date Posted: 6/26/2009 12:02 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 80
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Jessica,

 

For your specific question, I would not consider any book with a stamp in ink across the bottom, top or sides of the pages to be in Very Good condition. I think you did the right thing in declining this one. Someone else will request it, someone who is not so picky. (says the man who has been accused of being too picky...)

Otherwise,

IMO, this RC is not rude. It  may offend YOU because you are presuming the person is asking for something unreasonable, but they are entitled to ask for whatever they want - they ARE paying for these books (with postage fees and/or outright purchased credits), y'know? You are 110% free to be offended by anything and rude may be in the eye of the beholder, so, what the heck -- I think she was quite within her rights to say what she wants to say. It WILL cost her books here, as many folks do think of this as a USED book swap site so they don't even offer their new or like-new or very-good books here. I have both sent and received like-new books (even sent one that I bought the day before, not knowing that my wife already had it - so that was brand new) via PBS, so I know it does happen -- just not the norm and she will learn that.

Kinda amazed that people still say Kiss My Grits. I believe the lady who played the character that said that (Flo?) in the tv series back in the 70s? 80s? died recently.

 

 

Date Posted: 6/26/2009 2:50 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,916
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 Even so, I would humbly suggest that PBS should adopt something of this sort to describe what is a book in a good condition.

Well, I don't think I agree. Right now, PBS has one condition description that books need to meet, called postable guidelines. The condition guidelines already engenders a lot of confusion and disagreement and gray areas over whether or not particular books meet it.

Plus, PBS has no way to list book condition for individual books on the site. So, that means that unless the book is sitting right in front of you all the time, if/when it gets requested, you would never be able to accept requests without going to go and find the book again and checking the condition (is it good, very good, or whatever). This would be a huge hardship for all of the members who do not have a computer at home, and either use one at work, or the library, etc.

I think this would make requesting books and sending books way more complicated than it needs to be.

as many folks do think of this as a USED book swap site so they don't even offer their new or like-new or very-good books here

Yes, it is a used book swap site. However, many many people offer like-new books without making a big deal over it. I myself have also sent out brand new never-read books before. Most of my books were bought-new, read-once type of books. Some of my books are very definitely used. I post them all as long as they meet the single set of postability guidelines.

Without having RCs, I have also received many more like-new books than RWAPS. Just by chance. So I think lots of people have no problems posting or mailing their like-new books out. But this site also allows a certain degree of used-ness in books. Which I think is also great.

I respect your wish to get the nicest possible books from PBS. But my own perspective on book conditions is, as long as it meets the postability guidelines, I am OK with the book in a used or even very used condition. Because I know perfectly well that the mass market paperbacks or even the widely available hardbacks that I am "saving" in my permanent collection have no intrinsic value. So, it doesn't really matter if they are in perfect condition or used condition, when I die,  I won't be taking them with me, and my husband will either toss them in the trash or donate them to the library. My family members may save the few books that they know had some special meaning to me ... but the rest will just be gotten rid of, I'm sure.

Anyway, what good is a like-new book if I am going to read it? The act of reading it will render it less like-new, immediately. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate getting newish books in nice condition, but honestly, whether or not a book I order is in "like new" vs. "very good" condition simply doesn't matter to me (for most books, anyway). And the vast majority of PBS members probably feel the same way, since I receive MANY more orders without any RCs than I do with them. To me, this means that all of those PBS members are happy to receive books that simply meet the "postable conditions" guidelines.

Date Posted: 6/26/2009 11:53 AM ET
Member Since: 8/31/2008
Posts: 2,608
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I have sent out books in like-new condition.  I've bought some books in the past (new) that I ended up not liking, or just not a keeper, and posted to PBS.  I have received quite a number of like-new books from PBS before, including 2 that look like they were never even read.  Going by the definitions above, I would say that the majority of books I have both sent and received were in the like-new or very good category.  I have been very happy with the overall quality of books from PBS

Date Posted: 6/26/2009 12:15 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2009
Posts: 2,016
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Yes, I know that ebay and PBS are different sites and different circumstances. Even so, I would humbly suggest that PBS should adopt something of this sort to describe what is a book in a good condition. The current guidelines are too open for confusion -- or outright gaming the system by claiming you do not understand what good condition means. A clear and specific definition of what is not good condition would eliminate much of the RWAP and RCs and other issues that stir everyone up here.

I agree with Sarah that PBS doesn't need to set a standard using "quality adjectives" such as good, very good, etc. Even on ebay and its sister  half.com, people mis-use these all the time. For example, there are many "Very Good" books that say "some highlighting." So it's never entirely clear whether they are being used with refencee to a particular (and which?) standard or just as adjectives in the English language.

It's unclear to me who is considered to be "gaming the system"-- the requestor with RCs asking for good books, expecting everyone to have the same understanding of what "good" means, or the person who declines the RC, perhaps because she thinks that everyone's definition of good varies, and doesn't want to risk postage and a credit mailing a book to someone who won't be happy with it.

Date Posted: 6/26/2009 12:30 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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Kinda amazed that people still say Kiss My Grits. I believe the lady who played the character that said that (Flo?) in the tv series back in the 70s? 80s? died recently

New Zealand police reported early this morning that actress, Polly Holliday, fell to her death while on set of her latest film "Flo's Travels." 

More information will be forthcoming right after these messages from Kiss My Grits Breakfast Bars...

 

<grin>

Ms. Holliday is alive and well.



Last Edited on: 6/26/09 12:33 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Response to Sara's post
Date Posted: 6/26/2009 12:46 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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Sara, while reading your post I found myself nodding in agreement to just about everything.

" many people offer like-new books without making a big deal over it."

I am one such person.

"I myself have also sent out brand new never-read books before."

Me too.

"this site also allows a certain degree of used-ness in books"

True.

"I post them all as long as they meet the single set of postability guidelines"

Me too.

"I respect your wish to get the nicest possible books from PBS. But my own perspective on book conditions is, as long as it meets the postability guidelines"

I agree. Who doesn't want the best possible books from PBS?

 

Message to all:

While reading this thread, I sense that some folks suspect that those protesting RCs that as for new books (such as myself) send out nothing but unpostables or "any old book."

This is not true at all.

Don't assume that members who chafe at fulfilling a request for Like New books means that those members send out battered unpostable books.



Last Edited on: 6/26/09 12:49 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/27/2009 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 4/18/2009
Posts: 7,331
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I think I said this in a previous thread...  the people who have RC's make just as many assumptions about those of us that decline a lot of them as we make about their RC's....  I am once again, offended by the assumption that I send out extremely worn, used books, and don't send out good stuff and that's why I decline RC's, etc....  The MAJORITY of the books I send have been read by only me...  and occasionally by me and my mother....  I buy them brand new at either Barnes and Noble, Borders, or from Amazon.com...  I am extremely careful with my books, because I am a tad OCD...  however, I am not a book hoarder...  and so there are very few books I actually keep...  The only books I have sent out that were lower than what I would consider Like-New or at least VERY GOOD were ones that I got from someone else on here, read, and re-posted.... 

 

BTW... Sara, that was a terrific post...  I agree with you 100 percent...

Date Posted: 6/29/2009 3:39 PM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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 I have seen that RC and declined it. Funny, the book I had was brand new, but to me it feels wrong to send it to someone expecting better than standard PBS postable. As if they deserve better books than the rest of us. I could care less what kinds of books they mail out, that is their issue, I much rather send my EUC books to people not expecting them. Thankfully anyone has the right to post what ever RC they wish and I have the right to decline them for what ever reason I wish!

Date Posted: 6/29/2009 7:01 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I would decline that.  Your definition of very good and hers could be very different. Plus it just screams "picky" to me.  Especially with a 20yr old book.  One of the 1st requests I received was for a 15 oop/htf WL book that I posted.  It had 80+ wishers for it and the 1st request asked for "only books in like new or mint condition".  Now this book was in excellent condition but being a 15yr old cheaply made paperback it was yellowing and had some shelf-wear-no way was I sending to that person with 80+ other people in line for the book.  I just wasn't willing to get a ding against me on a perfectly postable book because this person want a brand new (yet out of print for 15yrs) book.