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Topic: RWAP without asking for credit refund ... now what?

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Subject: RWAP without asking for credit refund ... now what?
Date Posted: 10/14/2010 7:58 AM ET
Member Since: 9/3/2010
Posts: 17
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I got my first RWAP two days ago. The book arrived loose in a manila envelope that was starting to tear with one piece of packing tape across the flap. The binding is torn, and the first 30 pages or so (15 sheets) of the book are loose at the top corner. The same problem was beginning, though not to the same severity, at the bottom front corner. It's still plenty readable (especially after a packing-tape bandage), was the only copy in the system, and is not available from my local library, so I decided to tell the sender I would keep the book and wasn't asking for my credit back. I later also noticed a small stain on the bottom of the page edges.

Now, I have two questions. In my transaction archive, there's a button asking if it was resolved. My message to the sender described the problems with book and packing but did not specifically ask for a response. I'm not sure what "resolved" would mean in this case, since I didn't really suggest a way for the sender to resolve it. I could consider it resolved if she replies to acknowledge my concerns; should I send a PM letting her know that?

Second, this book's passport doesn't show in my transaction archive, it doesn't count in the list of books I've received, and it's not showing up on the map of who has mailed me books. I'd like these to happen, since I did get the book and am keeping it, even though I won't be posting it again. It was a planned keeper for me anyway. Yet I still think the transaction should be a RWAP. Can the Powers that Be arrange to have the book given "received" status in these matters?

Thanks!

Date Posted: 10/14/2010 8:16 AM ET
Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 262
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On the first question: I did the same thing the first time I had a RWAP, saying there was a problem without either asking for a credit or asking for a response of any kind, which meant that I was left in a quandary about how to mark the problem resolved. As it turned out, the sender answered my PM promptly with an apology and a commitment to do better in the future, so I considered it resolved.

I can't help you now, but I did learn to put something more specific into my PMs: something like "I will consider this issue resolved when I hear from you letting me know that you're now aware of the rule" or something like that, depending on the situation. I don't know the best way to word this - it's uncomfortable no matter what.

Date Posted: 10/14/2010 8:40 AM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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<<I didn't really suggest a way for the sender to resolve it. I could consider it resolved if she replies to acknowledge my concerns; should I send a PM letting her know that?>>

Yes, you should.  You can just say something along the lines of "once you acknowledge this issue, I'll mark the transaction as resolved", but you should always clearly ask for some sort of response.

Just FYI, keeping the book and asking for your credit back are two separate issues -- one is not dependant on the other.  You can keep the book and ask for your credit to be refunded; you aren't obligated to return the book if your credit is refunded, as it is intended to help motivate members to not send unpostable books, though certainly if you accept additional payment for postage for the book's return, you need to return it.

Date Posted: 10/14/2010 12:22 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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The book is probably now on your WL if you ordered the only copy. So you might want to delete it if you don't want another copy. 

I don't always ask for a credit back. An apology is nice but if you aren't asking for a credit back then you need to just mark it resolved.  Then it's on record with PBS that you had an issue with teh book incase they make a habit of it.

Date Posted: 10/14/2010 1:18 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,911
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I just mark it resolved as soon as I make the RWAP, if I am not asking for a credit back.

Date Posted: 10/14/2010 1:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,336
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If I don't hear back from the sender, and I'm not asking for my credit back, I don't mark it resolved or unresolved.  There's no rule on this -- it's up to you.  For me, "resolved" means that the sender took some kind of action -- like answering my PM.  But I think Sara and Mary's practice of automatically marking it resolved if they're not asking for a credit back is perfectly logical too.

Date Posted: 10/15/2010 11:15 AM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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The book arrived loose in a manila envelope...

I believe that this alone is grounds for a RWAP.  The packing guidelines clearly state that if shipping in a manila envelope, you should tape the corners tightly around the book. 

I am unclear why you didn't ask for your credit back.  The book was damaged due to the negligence of the sender, so you should have asked for your credit back.  We need to hold members here to the standards set by the site, otherwise this place will become like the Wild West, where anything goes.

Date Posted: 10/15/2010 2:22 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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I agree with Elizabeth.  As receiver you should have an idea about what would 'resolve' the issue for you.  For me (if I'm not asking for a credit return) it may be as simiple as a courtious reply and acknowledgement the member will be more aware in the future.  When possible, I check to see how long the sender has been a PBS member before deciding how to handle a RWAP (newbies receive more grace from me).

Date Posted: 10/15/2010 2:59 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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I am unclear why you didn't ask for your credit back.  The book was damaged due to the negligence of the sender, so you should have asked for your credit back. 

I have to say, I don't agree with this.  It's entirely up to the discretion of the person who received the book whether they feel it is warranted to ask for a credit back.  I never ask for a credit back if the book is readable, and I wasn't planning on reposting it.  Sometimes one just doesn't want the stress, and wants to just mark it RWP and to move on.  There is no obligation to do so.

Date Posted: 10/15/2010 6:50 PM ET
Member Since: 9/3/2010
Posts: 17
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Thanks for your input, everyone!

Kate, I felt that,  no matter what PBS guidelines say, if I was going to ask for my credit back, I ought to be willing to return the book if the sender provided postage. I wasn't: I decided I'd rather have the book I want now than the credit I might be able to spend for it later. smiley

Jenny

Date Posted: 10/16/2010 3:53 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I have to say, I don't agree with this.  It's entirely up to the discretion of the person who received the book whether they feel it is warranted to ask for a credit back.  I never ask for a credit back if the book is readable, and I wasn't planning on reposting it.  Sometimes one just doesn't want the stress, and wants to just mark it RWP and to move on.  There is no obligation to do so.

You are right, for you there is no "obligation" to do so.  But I feel it's my obligation to other PBS members to ask for my credit back when the poster sent a book that was not postable or the sender threw it in a manila envelope and called it a day, resulting in a damaged book.  If we don't hold member accountable for their actions, then we might as well just declare this place the Wild West and then anything will go.  By asking for my credit back, I am letting them know that their actions are unacceptable.  If you let them slide and don't ask for your credit back, you are in a sense approving their bad behavior.

Date Posted: 10/16/2010 11:09 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Regardless of whether or not we ask for a credit return, the number of RWAP's alone can result in member suspension.  I doubt credit return requests factor into the suspension equation when TPTB take action.

Date Posted: 10/17/2010 7:40 AM ET
Member Since: 12/21/2007
Posts: 1,642
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I'm with Sara in that if I am not asking for a credit back, I immediately mark the transaction resolved. I know it's okay to let the transaction not be marked at all, but it bugs me if I see it not marked either way! That's just my weirdness though :)

Date Posted: 10/17/2010 11:29 AM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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You are right, for you there is no "obligation" to do so.  But I feel it's my obligation to other PBS members to ask for my credit back when the poster sent a book that was not postable or the sender threw it in a manila envelope and called it a day, resulting in a damaged book.

I believe the most important part of this comment are the words "I feel".  I feel otherwise.  It's up the the discretion of the person receiving to book as per PBS guidelines.

Date Posted: 10/17/2010 12:50 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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Regardless of whether or not we ask for a credit return, the number of RWAP's alone can result in member suspension.  I doubt credit return requests factor into the suspension equation when TPTB take action.

This is true.  But asking the sender for a credit return will be letting them know they won't get away with this kind of behavior.  Maybe that will cause them to clean up their act.

Date Posted: 10/19/2010 8:17 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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 If you let them slide and don't ask for your credit back, you are in a sense approving their bad behavior.

You don't seem to be allowing for ignorance of the rule only, as I read it, disregard of the book once it is out of the sender's hands.  I used to send out books in manila envelops w/o taping, it wasn't specifically mentioned in the HC back then (it was just FAQs and "How to wrap a book" back then, as I recall..and the wrapping tutorial was for the PBS wrapper.).  A very kind clerk at my wonderful (thank goodness!) post office educated me on good wrapping vs. "just waiting for an accident" wrapping when using manila envelopes.  Needless to say, I did better after that, and I also got lucky and didn't have any RWaP during that time.  (ironically, it was one I taped down really well that ended up getting eaten by a machine!)

Should we all read all of the rules all of the time? Yeah, I'm sure we should.  Hats off to any of you that do, but most folks don't and have to learn as they go.  It's *perfectly OK* to ask for your credit back if you choose.  It's also *perfectly OK* to not ask for your credit back if you choose.  It's really not a "right or wrong" thing, it's a "what I feel is OK about" thing.

Personally, I agree that if I'm wanting to keep the book regardless, then I don't get the credit back, too. 

Date Posted: 10/19/2010 9:08 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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Marking it RWAP is NOT letting it go, if you ask for your credit back or not.  No one appointed me the sheriff in this wild, wild west so I'm free to do as I choose.  If I can use the book in any way and yet it doesn't meet the site guidelines, I do RWAP but I don't ask for my credit back.  I'm not approving anything!

Date Posted: 10/20/2010 12:43 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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"...But asking the sender for a credit return will be letting them know they won't get away with this kind of behavior.  Maybe that will cause them to clean up their act..."  I prefer to sometimes err on the side of educating newbies instead of frustsrating and chasing them away from PBS.

Like myself (and Beth above), some of us have a learning curve and it takes us a while to figure out ALL the PBS rules & guidelines.

Date Posted: 10/28/2010 3:21 AM ET
Member Since: 12/30/2008
Posts: 64
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Responsible behavior applies to both parties in this situation.  Since Jennymj said she didn't want to the sender to provide return postage, she could not very well ask for her credit back.

In this situation, the receiver DIDN'T want to relinquish the book.  So this transaction was not the best occasion to demand the return of a credit in order to force the sender to change his/her ways to protect the PBS population at large.

A PM politely pointing out what the sender did wrong seems the best solution.  It wouldn't hurt to include a thank you for at least getting the book.

Date Posted: 10/28/2010 7:07 AM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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Responsible behavior applies to both parties in this situation.  Since Jennymj said she didn't want to the sender to provide return postage, she could not very well ask for her credit back.

Of course she could.  If one receives a book that one was planning to repost, and if one is unable to do so because the sender has sent a damaged book, there's no reason the receiver shouldn't ask for a credit back if they wish.  Whether the book is mailed back to the sender is an entirely seperate issue - the receiver is out a credit either way. 

Ronda (RONDA) - ,
Date Posted: 10/28/2010 11:28 AM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 415
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I think saying you should rwap just because it wasn't wrapped how you like, but there was no damage is over the line.  I have had many books make it to me fine wrapped that way.  I have had a few wrapped as the site suggests with issues, but not with damage to the book.  I do pm in these cases and let them know that the wrapping didnt do well but the book was fine.

But I am on the side that asks for my credit back every time (only a few of them) if the book is damaged.  But I don't hold it against you if you dont.

Date Posted: 10/28/2010 1:19 PM ET
Member Since: 7/28/2006
Posts: 4,982
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I think saying you should rwap just because it wasn't wrapped how you like, but there was no damage is over the line. 

I agree with you on this Rhonda.  Although there was damage in this particular case (whether it was caused by wrapping technique or before that). 

IMO, if you get a book in the mail and think the wrapping was a problem, but there was no damage, I figure they get luck and simply let them no by a polite PM that they may want to tape down the corners (or whatever it was).  No damage, no need to RWAP. 

 

Edited to fix a typo.



Last Edited on: 10/28/10 1:20 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/29/2010 11:11 AM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I have a policy that if I do a RWAP, I always ask for my credit back.  If the member didn't follow the rules here, then s/he should give back a credit.  That's the only way to keep them honest.  If you don't ask for your credit back on a RWAP on damage caused by a member not wrapping the book properly, where's the incentive for the member to learn from their mistake?

Date Posted: 10/29/2010 12:08 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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I don't always, well almost never, ask for my credit back.  People are human and can make mistakes.  I think marking it RWAP is enough to keep the majority of people "honest".    I especially don't ask for the credit back IF I am going to get some use out of the book.  If the book is ruined, then yes I ask.  But if I can read, donate or otherwise use the book.  

What's the incentive to learn?  Most people don't have to be punished to learn from their mistakes.  I certainly hope that every time I make a mistake in life, someone doesn't feel the need to "teach me a lesson". 

OF COURSE it is ok to ask for the credit back.  It's just not the way I handle things.

Date Posted: 10/29/2010 12:09 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/3/15 1:34 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
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