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Topic: RWAP..what would you do??

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Subject: RWAP..what would you do??
Date Posted: 9/28/2010 12:36 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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I recieved this message today from a person I sent a book too............the book was PERFECT when it left here and I wrapped it carefully and securely as usual. Below is the message she sent me when she RWAP'ed the book.  I am 100% POSITIVE the book was not damaged at all when I posted it or when I shipped it.

I want to be polite to her...but I don't even know how to respond and I really am confused about if I have to return her credit.

Hi, I just received One Reckless Summer by Toni Blake, but unfortunately almost every page of the book is water damaged. It was well wrapped in black plastic, so it does not seem as though the damage occurred in transit. As this book does not meet the PBS guidelines (No damage at all from water or other liquid) I would like to request a refund of my credit. I would be happy to return the book to you if you are willing to pay the postage. Let me know how you would like to resolve this issue.

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 12:47 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,956
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Ask for pictures.

I would just day something like, I believe the book was not water damaged when I mailed it. Can you please take a picture or 2 and post them for me to see?

If you are sure that the book you sent wasn't damaged, then you do not have to refund the credit.



Last Edited on: 9/28/10 12:49 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/28/2010 12:49 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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good idea...i thought of that but wasn't sure if it would be rude or not.  I am thinking my response to her will be not to refund her credit if the book is damaged  but offer her any otherbook off my shelf. I know that book was fine when it left here..........but who knows what happens during its postal travels.

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 12:51 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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If you don't think you should return the credit, just tell them so. You are under no obligation to return credits on demand. I'd be firm but polite, tell them the book was not damaged, and there will be no credit return.

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 12:58 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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There is no doubt in my mind that book was dry and postabe..............I am a fanatic about the care of my books. If I am even going to put them in my bag to read  in the car while waiting for one of my kids... I always put them in  a ziplock baggie first just to keep the pages from getting bent and the book clean. My kids get so embarassed!!!

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 2:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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You could also ask the requestor to varify that it was the book you sent.  Someone before you could have forgotten to mark the book mailed and then the request passed on to you. 

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 2:36 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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You could also ask the requestor to varify that it was the book you sent.

Yes, make sure it's your book.

Also, have them describe the liquid damage. Is it really liquid damage or are the pages just wavy? Wavy pages can come from cheap paper and humidity, and it's not considered liquid damage. It's just naturally happens with some books in some climates.

But if your'e sure it was in great shape when you mailed it, you don't have to refund the credit.

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 3:02 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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It isn't rude to ask for photos -- per the Help Center:

  • If you dispute the problem as described, it is OK to ask for digital photos of the book.
    • you can provide an email address to the other member, OR she/he can upload images to a photo-hosting site like photobucket.
Date Posted: 9/28/2010 3:17 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Yes, make sure it was your book marked recieved, especially if it's a WL book. Sometimes a person will mail a book late and it will arrive after the original order has timed out, so the recipient marks the wrong transaction as received. Though I'd imagine that black plastic would be kind of distinctive. Did you use black plastic for this book?

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 6:04 PM ET
Member Since: 7/24/2010
Posts: 52
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OMG - I would be willing to bet I sent a book to that very same person simply because I got that same complaint - almost word for word.  Like you, I was positive there was no damage when I sent it. 

Being fairly new to the program, once I received the RWAP notice, I PM"d the recipient because she did not initiate contact with me regarding any issues.  Only after I asked, she stated there was water damage; wrapping was in good shape; etc.......almost like she read the requirements of an unpostable book and used that in her complaint.  At that point, I was so frustrated with her that I refunded the credit and told her to keep the book.

Hindsight, I would have asked for pictures - like I said, fairly new to PBS and this was my first/only issue.  She offered to return the book - if I paid postage and returned the credit.  I simply told her that the book wasn't worth paying twice the postage for and keep it.  I will never swap with that person again.

Another interesting thing I noted was that when I looked at her profile - she has no books to go out, however, wishlist a mile long.  Made me wonder if she made a habit of doing this to get books for free.

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 6:15 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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They could be similar because the people are copy/pasting the suggested RWAP email and just changing the specifics for their transaction.

We suggest this text:

"Thanks for sending the book.  Unfortunately there is a problem [explain the problem here--if this was an unpostable book you can say that the problem "makes this unpostable by site guidelines, and I won't be able to swap the book again"].  I would like a credit refund, which can be accomplished by clicking Give Refund in your transaction archive on the Request Details page for this swap, and I will be happy to mail the book back to you if you will provide postage."

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 7:39 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2009
Posts: 2,016
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Based on the title/author, the book is WL'ed. Well, I think there's two ways to go about this:

(1) just politely and firmly tell her sorry, no credit return.

Verify that the book is from you, and not another member whose order timed out but was ultimately received (as Jane / mahbaar) mentioned.

If you are sure it was fine when you sent it and you stand by your packaging, then just tell her no now.

(2) ask for photos, and be prepared to refund if the photos show damage.

This is just an opinion: if one asks for photos and the photos show damage, then I think the credit should be refunded. It would sound disingenous to ask to see the damage, see it, and then claim it was the packaging, occurred en route, etc. I think it's very unlikely that someone would deliberately pour water on the book to take pictures of a book to prove a point, but that possibility exists.

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 7:58 PM ET
Member Since: 12/23/2005
Posts: 3,012
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You do NOT have to return a credit because she is making claims.  If you know the book was ok, don't do it.  I regret the credit I returned just to shut someone up.  The book I sent was fine, but she bullied me so badly, I gave in.  Never again!  I later learned that she had done this to other good, reliable traders.

Ronda (RONDA) - ,
Date Posted: 9/28/2010 8:37 PM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 415
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ere is no doubt in my mind that book was dry and postabe..............

 

Just because a book is dry does not mean it is not water damaged. If the book has ever gotten wet it is water damaged. 

Date Posted: 9/28/2010 10:23 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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I would just tell her no credit refund.

This is just an opinion: if one asks for photos and the photos show damage, then I think the credit should be refunded. It would sound disingenous to ask to see the damage, see it, and then claim it was the packaging, occurred en route, etc. I think it's very unlikely that someone would deliberately pour water on the book to take pictures of a book to prove a point, but that possibility exists.

For this reason I would never ask for picture evidence. Even if it's PO damaged, you're sort of saying you'll take responsibility as long as they can show the damage whether or not it was from the PO or before.

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 2:33 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 36,287
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May be a pattern showing up as my sister got a very similar letter as far as the specifics are concerned.

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 2:44 AM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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The fact that she said virtually every page is water damaged makes me think it might be waving from humidity.

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 7:36 AM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
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Let me clarify...when I said dry..........I meant it had never had water damage.....not that it was "dry".  I sent her a brand new paperback that I had read in one night...then posted the next morning....properly wrapped and shipped out that afternoon when it was requested.

She sent me pictures and there is no way that is the condition I sent the book in......which now...as mentioned above puts me in a stickier position to decline her credit.  This is the link she sent me to view the pics....any advice appreciated. They are up at: http://grayslakewebmasters.com/grace/pictures.htm
 



Last Edited on: 9/29/10 7:41 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/29/2010 7:44 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 36,287
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pm'd you

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 10:40 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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I think you could still decline her credit even after seeing those pictures. I'd just say, "I'm sorry, but I cannot refund your credit. I know for a fact that the book I read the night before I mailed it did not have any water damage. This can only mean it happened in transit."

In her original PM she says it does not seem to have occurred in transit. I think maybe that means she already realizes that it could have, maybe there was a rip in the plastic that she just didn't want to mention just in case she wouldn't have to absorb the credit on this one. Unethical, but possible.

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 10:55 AM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I wonder if it's the same person I ran into lately.  I sent a book I know was in perfect condition.  She didn't say anything about the PO mangling it, but claimed that it was missing pages.  Since I read the book in the three weeks before I sent it, I know there were no missing pages. 

I, too, would ask for pictures of the "water damage".  And if you are 100% sure of the condition of the book, don't give back the credit.  I gave mine back the credit because she got kind of "stalkerish" with constant PM's about the book and my ethics.  I finally gave her back the credit to shut her up.

There are some people here who see claiming the book was damaged as a way to get a free book when they get their credit back.  But, sooner or later they will be caught by PBS because they keep an eye out for trends on RWAP's. 

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 11:42 AM ET
Member Since: 11/22/2005
Posts: 11
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I had the same thing happen a few months ago.  I am certain that when I mailed the book there was no water damage.  I also wrapped it in plastic, and the receiver said the package was intact when it was received.  Where did the water damage come from?  I have no idea, but to avoid any possible confrontation I refunded the credit. 

A similar incident (that got really nasty, really fast) over at Swap-a-CD led me to close my account there.

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 12:04 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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From those pics, to me that does NOT look like a brand new paperback read once and then sent, unless the PO did mess with it. The edges look worn.

Makes me wish that their ppl could put some small mark on the book to show it is theirs being photo'd.

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 12:10 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,201
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A good idea when asking for a picture of the book is to ask for a picture of the packaging (with the mailing label showing). That way you can confirm the book they have is from you and if the packaging was damaged in any way.

To me, the pictures look like something else is going on like the book came from someoen else. That book in the pictures does not look like it could be new and the water damage well dried. How long has it been since the receiver got the book?

Date Posted: 9/29/2010 12:16 PM ET
Member Since: 12/8/2007
Posts: 1,011
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Wow, that is some pretty bad damage! I have had a terrible event of a book getting wet, even sealed in plastic. Moisture/water will get in even the smallest of openings. Wonder how long she had the book before posting to you about the problem? It could have gotten wet even thru the plastic and then dried en route. If so, that is Post Office RWAP and not your personal RWAP.

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