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Topic: RWAP

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Subject: RWAP
Date Posted: 9/23/2009 11:33 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2009
Posts: 8,566
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I've been a member since February and have almost always had very positive experiences with other PBS members.  But now it looks like I am having my first, shall we say, rotten egg.  I got a mummy-wrapped paperback, it was quite a project to unwrap it and when I finally got it out I noticed that there was a big white spot, about two inches wide, on the back where there should be writing.  It looked exactly as it would if the wrapper had been taped on and then ripped off part of the back cover when the book was unwrapped, although I'm not sure that that happened when I unwrapped it.  Anyway, I RWAP'd it, explaining what I found and asking for my credit back.  She indignantly denied putting tape on the book and said that she would only refund my credit if I returned it "in the same condition" [presumably she meant without the big white spot].  Wrote back that I'm not required to return the book, that maybe someone sent it to her that way but it's still not postable.  She replied that she likewise is not required to refund my credit, she didn't damage the book, and if I am so displeased with it then clearly it is not fit for me to read or even have so I should return it.  Now I have replied that I'm not accusing her of putting tape on the book but even if she got it that way and didn't mind it's still not postable and I can't repost it, which is what I would normally do when I finish reading it.  What do people think?  Am I out of line on this, or is she?

Date Posted: 9/23/2009 11:44 PM ET
Member Since: 2/24/2009
Posts: 160
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  It's her.  And judging by the tone of her replies, you arent getting your credit back in any way shape or form.  Id mark it unresolved and move on.  Im sorry this happened to you.:(

 

Date Posted: 9/23/2009 11:50 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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What makes it unpostable? A white spot where the cover surface is gone does not make it unpostable, its not a tear.

Date Posted: 9/24/2009 1:48 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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I'm with Melanie - what is UNpostable about this book?

Date Posted: 9/24/2009 2:05 PM ET
Member Since: 10/21/2007
Posts: 3,430
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If the white spot is a tear, then I don't think it meets the book condition criteria for the cover.  Here's what I found in the help docs:

 

Cover:

  • Must both be present (front and back)
    • note that a paperback missing its front cover is  usually an illegal, unsold copy
    • "cover" does not = dust jacket.  Hardcovers do not need to include their dust jackets to be swapped here.
  • Cover not water damaged (there may be no water damage to any part of the book)
  • Cover not torn or chewed/gnawed
    • some used book stores cut out a small part of the cover; if the amount missing is less than 1 square inch, this is OKAY
    • a small rip (less than 1 inch) in the cover is OKAY
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed" above.  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.
  • A bookplate inside the cover or on the flyleaf is OKAY

 

I found this under the wrapping guidelines, but not sure it applies in this case if the tape from this shipment did not cause the tear:

"Do not apply tape directly to the book! This can damage the book when the package is opened.

  • If you apply tape directly to the book and it is then damaged when the package is opened, you will not receive a credit."
Date Posted: 9/24/2009 2:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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It doesn't sound unpostable to me either.  Maybe borderline, at most.  I might be annoyed, but I wouldn't mark it RWAP.

Date Posted: 9/24/2009 8:38 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2009
Posts: 8,566
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But if this is postable, then why is it not OK to tape the wrapper to the book?

Date Posted: 9/24/2009 8:43 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Because it can damage the book and there's no sense in doing something that you don't have to that can damage a book (even postable damage) and it could render the book unpostable when pulling it off. IMO, that would mean that, while removing tape from the cover of the book, the cover actually torn more than 1".



Last Edited on: 9/24/09 8:43 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/24/2009 9:36 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2009
Posts: 8,566
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so when you say the cover actually tore more than 1" do you mean only that it began to separate from the spine and / or there was a cut in the edge [hard to see how that would be caused by tape]?

Date Posted: 9/24/2009 10:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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You might want to pop into Live Help and ask to see if they have any agreement on how to define a tear. To me what you describe is just a peeling of a top layer. A torn cover would be when it goes completely through the cover. Otherwise how do you distinguish it from shelf wear? Again this is all my opinion, though I have seen this discussed in the forum and it really seemed like all but a handful did not believe a peeling of a layer of the cover was a tear. We all agree it sucks and its ugly, but most didn't consider it unpostable.



Last Edited on: 9/24/09 10:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/25/2009 10:16 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2009
Posts: 8,566
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I followed Melanie's advice and contacted Live Help.  I actually have two answers [one took a long time to reply so I went on to the next].  One is a flat no, that is not postable; the other is a bit more nuanced but also leans toward unpostable.  Thanks for all suggestions and opinions.

Date Posted: 9/26/2009 7:08 AM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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Thanks for posting their response Nora. Certainly something to think about.  

I've received a few books where more than an inch of the top layer of the cover peeled off, presumably when a sticker was removed. I never thought to mark them RWAP and probably still wouldn't but I'll be cautious about re-listing them in the future. In fact, I think I just recently posted a book that otherwise was in excellent condition but had a thin scuff mark on the cover where the 'white' showed through a little over an inch long. I'll have to give that one another look.

Date Posted: 9/26/2009 11:28 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Well, if just the outer writing/covering of the cover is pulled off, this is not a tear. A tear is something that causes a space between two portions of something. If this has just pulled of the writing or picture on the cover, then it is not separating the cover in anyway, why is this unpostable? If you'd gotten it from me, I wouldn't return your credit, because no where in the rules does it say "No coloring or writing of the outer cover can be missing" It only discusses tears and dirty and such. As to why we aren't supposed to tape to the cover, it's so we don't do what has been done to your book and annoy people, and because it MIGHT tear the cover, rather than just pull part of it off. My suggestion, since you are getting conflicting answers, and not an overwhelming one way or the other, I would send in feedback and ask the PBS Team what they have to say. Then if they say it's not unpostable, please be sure to mark the problem as incorrectly marked unpostable, so the person doesn't have the mark on their record. Just my suggestion on what you could do.
Date Posted: 9/27/2009 3:32 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,327
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Hmmm, when I opened a book where the wrapper was taped to the book, it tore off a long strip from the top of the cover.  I felt it was no longer postable.  II can see how "tear" can have 2 meanings -- tearing it in 2, or tearing a layer of it off.  Maybe one is a tear and the other isn't, in PBS terms, but I haven't seen that difference defined in the Help Docs. So it looks as if members who have a lot of experience here could still see this one differently. 

I'd always thought of a torn strip as a tear, but now I can see it both ways -- ah, the torture!



Last Edited on: 9/27/09 3:35 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/28/2009 1:10 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Ha, that is why I told Nora to got to Live Help,.So she could get the confilcting views from them :) I knew Sherry's view and that is the one I believe and expressed. I also knew that there are some TGs who hold Patty's view.  I had hoped a discussion had taken place amongst the TGs last time this came up and maybe they'd had come to an agreement on what to tell people. 

I think this is just one of those areas that there will be disagreements. I know I would not mark a book RWP if I got one with just peeling. I also know some people will. Since I don't tape to books, I won't ever have to deal with RWP from the senders end.